Only kidding Travis

 

I went with the dual plane for low-midrange torque which is what most recommended for a week-end driver, would have gone single plane if I was going to the drag strip.

 

489hp/495tq
specs:
Scat 9000 Series Stroker Cast Steel Crank
Scat 6" Forged I-Beam Connecting Rods
Race series Rod bearings
Race series Main Bearings
JE SRP Forged Pistons
JE SRP Piston-Rod pins
JE SRP Piston-Rod pin locks
Upgrade Rings
Oil Ring Support Rails
AFR195cc CNC Ported Aluminum Heads w/ Straight Plugs,Teflon PC Valve Seals,Stainless Steel Valves
ARP Head Bolts
Comp Cams Mechanical Roller Cam
Grind Number CS XR268 R-10
Description


Intake Exhaust
Valve Adjustment 0.016 0.018
Gross Valve Lift 0.552 0.564
Duration At 0.015 Tappet Lift 268 274


Valve Timing At 0.015
Open Close
Intake 28 60
Exhaust 71 23


These Specs Are For The Cam Installed At 106 Intake CL
Intake Exhaust
Duration At 0.05 230 236
Lobe Lift 0.368 0.376
Lobe Separation 110


Recommended Valve Springs 977-16

 

Yeah I tried dual plane tea, it was OK, about 1 tenth and 3MPH slower...left a bitter taste.



Wayne: Its OK, we can't all build 600lb motors in the basement.

b71vette: Looks like the combo worked out well, what RPMs were those at? That is a pretty small cam. I am sure its a fun street cruiser, any plans to hit the track?

 

B71vette, THANKS for posting your engine specs. The numbers are pretty damn good but I would have thought with ported AFRs and a solid roller it would have definetly broke 500hp. Is the intake an RPM air gap or something else?


I can't see how T&L is getting 510hp with out of the box Dart Pro 1s and a hyd roller if they are only getting 489hp out of your combo. You think maybe they are fudging the numbers some on the 408?



Have you ever ran your car down the strip? I would be curious to see what it runs.

 

They are the Street AFR195, not the new Eliminators, the Cam isn't that aggressive, and the intake is an Edelbrock RPM Air Gap. I was going to go with a more aggressive cam that would have put it at 500hp but I backed off cause I wanted to make sure it was streetable. I found T & L to be honest. When you compare apples to apples parts/build quailty/facility/engine building expertise/and you can go watch it dynoed it still is going to be hard to beat that deal.

 

b71: Do you mind PMing me the price you payed? I have seriously looked at their engine shop on ebay several times and kept them in mind...

 

Looks like people actually believe that myth.. I was running a 35 year old ported Torker/TM-1 intake and it got over 20 HP more on the dyno than a Performer RPM and had about the same midrange torque... Only if you go with the more radical Super Victor or similar, you'll lose noticeable midrange but a moderate single plane intake will have an advantage over the dual plane except for fuel economy..

 

The mph is the main indicator of power... 3 mph is over 30 HP loss..

OK, if you run a stock converter with a performance engine, the dual plane might even run better at the track but who in the hell would run a stock converter with a performance engine
You always see those tests in car magazines where they run a 1800 stall converter with a 500 HP engine and then they'll get better ET with the dual plane intake.. However, if you use the appropriate parts that match your combo, the single plane intake will ALWAYS outperform a dual plane - period! If someone really cares about performance, the single plane is the way to go!

 

I agree with you about the HP of a single plane over a dual plane but... ON a heavy 4spd car with say a 3.55 gear, low rpms and low throttle input acceleration blows with a single plane. Ya after 3k rpms at WOT they may kick *** but when running around town at 1500-2000 rpms and a quick stab of the gas to get away from something or run a yellow light, a single plane intake has crap for part throttle performance. That is stuff that never shows up on a dyno because a dyno is only WOT.

THe air gap is a good compromise. I have two different buddys that have made 500-510hp on an engine dyno, but with air gaps and custom built 750 DPs on 383s. Both are hyd rollers, one with AFR 195s and one with FULLY worked Iron eagles.


BUT I, will be running around a 3000-3200 stall converter so...I was thinking about maybe the short victor jr intake.

 

i'd be cinical as well...better be cinical then be ripped off.
on engines the cheaper could often be the more expensive, specially on the long run. there are veeery reputable engine builders that for this very same money would give you an engine with a few ponies less but everlasting...

 

There seems to be good quality stuff in this guys build up. Can't you contact the people who left feedback? I'm sure you can google this guy and find out how good he is. I built a 406 with lesser parts, less experience and it turned out great, reliable, fast. Just check him out well and ask as many questions as you can.

 

I have one of T&L's 408 motors and I can tell you that my engine was dyno run. I went there to watch the run myself. All of there engines get "new" serial numbers so its very easy to track. I would recommend to anyone that they go witness this, kinda like watching your baby born. My engine dynoed in the 470's pulling all the belt driven accessories. This is not where AJ is looking to be but I had them be very conservative with the cam for street cruising with an auto tranny and air conditioning. My cam is 306 duration, .480 lift. I don't know much about cams but understand that lift # is pretty low? Anyway, I love this engine. I am running a T350 with 3.55 gears and 275/40 18" kumho tires and have plenty of power to roll into the trottle runing 40-45 in second and pull the tires loose. I don't know how this stacks up for a drag racer but its lots of fun on the street.

By the way Alan, if you buy from them and go watch the dyno run have them set you up with the inside tours of Hendrix Racing, DEI, and some of the other local race shops. Loyd knows all these guys.

 

GYOPP, THANKS for the feedback, thats exactly what I was looking for. Someone who actually has the 408. Lloyd told me a while back on the phone that the 408 would make 460-470hp with a small hyd flat tappet cam so that backs up exact what yours made. Especially considering yours was dynoed with excessories. I will have him dyno mine with the traditional water pump and mechanical fuel pump.

I would contemplate flying out there and watching the dyno. Did he actually dyno tune YOUR carbureator/ignition to get the most power out of it or just use the shop carb? Ofcourse flying out there to watch the dyno runs would probably cost me a $1k so that would offset any savings so... How many miles have you put on your motor?

 

GYOPP, also, did you use 1 5/8" headers or 1 3/4"? I know they dyno with the 1 3/4" and I am wondering how much its going to hurt it if I run 1 5/8" headers. I just bought a new set of ceramic 1 5/8" heades but if they are going to hurt more then 10hp, I will buy new 1 3/4".

 

Look, I know what I'm talking about as I ran that combo on the street and I could shred the street tires from idle and that was with a ported single plane intake! I had a relatively mild 383/465 HP pump gas engine and I'd smoke the tires through 1st to 4th gear... That engine had monster torque with the single plane intake..

 

Grandsport, have you ever tried an RPM AIR GAP? I am curious how it would stack up hp wise to your old torquer.

Once again, I am sure your car would burn the hides at WOT, the point I was making though was that when you are driving around town and in traffic, you don't want to have to floor it to get the car to be responsive and be able to dart away. At WOT throttle the single plane may be ok but I mean in part throttle, cruising, commuting type driving. I wouldn't want to have to hit it half throttle to get around a car on a city street when doing 40mph in 4th gear.

Ofcourse my car is an auto with a converter so....its irrelevent for me. I was just bringing that up for low rpm 4spd guys. I still hear a lot about old SB Team G intakes.

 

AJROTHM, I used 1 3/4" Hooker super comps with mine. Loyd told me that 1-5/8 headers were too small for the 408. I bought the carb and pertronics ignition from them and they did the dyno run with these. I know thier base HP quotes are flat tappet hydraulics and I am a little better than that but I have the hyd. roller upgrade. I was told that there is more HP to be had and still stay with the hyd. roller by just using a different cam? Like I said, I really stressed the streetablility to them and let them choose the cam. They missed the mark a little because I still don't have enough vacumm at idle for the brakes to work properly. By the way, mine also has a RPM airgap intake.

 

I've been involved in regional circle track racing for a long time; as car owner, engine builder etc.

T&L has never done any work on any motor of mine ... BUT they've had a good reputation amongst regional CT racers for a long time. They've been building race motors a lot longer than ebay, this forum or even the internet's been around; they're long-time experts.

If you want a street motor they'll build it ... if you want a race motor they'll build it ... but don't try too hard to compare the two.

If a new stroker motor has all new rods, crank, pistons & heads ... assembled for around $5K ... be assured the rods & crank have aisian origin. That's why many hot street/strip motors have a $600 forged imported crank (scat, eagle etc) & why most true championship motors have a $3K forged crank (bryant, moldex etc) ... similar disparity for rods. Everything has its place ... but for most folks here, asian forged crank/rods are just fine so long as an expert checks them first.

BTW ... I've flown a 40+ year old red chinese fighter trainer with red chinese radial motor ... both Nanchang & myself are still operational ... been inside its motor too ... little difference between it & a P&W. We've all had experience with aisian junk ... but some aisian stuff is junk & some ain't.

 

Ya I kind of figured I would need the 1 3/4" headers. Suckers are $500 ceramic coated. I just bought some 1 5/8" Hedman elite headers, coated for $265 to stick on my stocker. Kind of wish I would have pennied up another $250 now but....oh well. I needed something to get me rollin now.

I would be curious to the specs of your cam. A .480 lift cam in a roller is TINY. Thats like a ZZ4 cam's lift. I am suprised you have low vacuum. Must have a lot of overlap or something. BTW you did a really nice job restoring it!

Do me a favor, take it to the track and let me know what it runs so I can see if that motor will work for me.