SERIOUSLY thinking about this engine....
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,173
Likes: 5
From: Paducah Ky
there's 8 inches of vaccumm at idle so the brakes work just not very well at idle. next spring I will try to sneak over to the track. My wife is not really on board with this plan as I usually tend to get overly invoved in these hobbies.
Pro
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 526
Likes: 1
From: Millington TN
I had seen these guys on eBay too. I'm looking to buy a crate too and had been leaning towards the HT383 or the ZZ383. Now these guys have a 383 with numbers in the ZZ383 range for about 1000 less. Very tempting for a enlisted guy! My question is though how much work was done on these blocks? It says they have been bored but how much? Does it vary with the block? I'm trying to decide if I'd rather have a new block or a used one. So what would the advantages of going with these guys be over going with a GMPP block other than cost?
-CR
-CR
Advanced
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
From: Sherman Texas
Originally Posted by gyopp
I have one of T&L's 408 motors and I can tell you that my engine was dyno run. I went there to watch the run myself. All of there engines get "new" serial numbers so its very easy to track. I would recommend to anyone that they go witness this, kinda like watching your baby born. My engine dynoed in the 470's pulling all the belt driven accessories. This is not where AJ is looking to be but I had them be very conservative with the cam for street cruising with an auto tranny and air conditioning. My cam is 306 duration, .480 lift. I don't know much about cams but understand that lift # is pretty low? Anyway, I love this engine. I am running a T350 with 3.55 gears and 275/40 18" kumho tires and have plenty of power to roll into the trottle runing 40-45 in second and pull the tires loose. I don't know how this stacks up for a drag racer but its lots of fun on the street.
By the way Alan, if you buy from them and go watch the dyno run have them set you up with the inside tours of Hendrix Racing, DEI, and some of the other local race shops. Loyd knows all these guys.
By the way Alan, if you buy from them and go watch the dyno run have them set you up with the inside tours of Hendrix Racing, DEI, and some of the other local race shops. Loyd knows all these guys.
I also bought the 408 from them. Got it in a week ago, but won't go in till Feb. Mine was dyno'd at 463hp with a performer intake and hyd upgrade. Pretty much same build as gyopp.
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 9,993
Likes: 1,136
From: League City Tx
Originally Posted by CraigT79
I also bought the 408 from them. Got it in a week ago, but won't go in till Feb. Mine was dyno'd at 463hp with a performer intake and hyd upgrade. Pretty much same build as gyopp.
Craig is that just the base Performer intake? you say hyd upgrade....you mean hyd roller cam upgrade right? you have the specs on the cam?
If it is a regular Performer intake, that thing is choking you to death. I bet you would gain 15-20hp easy changing to an rpm air gap.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,025
Likes: 1
From: Billings MT
I have the 1-5/8 Dynomax headers on my 406. Although it is being chocked I have been impressed with how it has performed, they can't be that bad. That being said a set of super-comps is definitely on my wish list. 
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 30,183
Likes: 313
From: Lake Norman NC
yea, i agree with the others...single plane intakes are the way to go if you want all the power you can get. I run a Victor Jr. on a hydraulic roller 383, redlines about 6000rpms, and it will smoke the tires through
1st and 2nd with the M20.
1st and 2nd with the M20.
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 9,993
Likes: 1,136
From: League City Tx
Originally Posted by C_Reichow
I had seen these guys on eBay too. I'm looking to buy a crate too and had been leaning towards the HT383 or the ZZ383. Now these guys have a 383 with numbers in the ZZ383 range for about 1000 less. Very tempting for a enlisted guy! My question is though how much work was done on these blocks? It says they have been bored but how much? Does it vary with the block? I'm trying to decide if I'd rather have a new block or a used one. So what would the advantages of going with these guys be over going with a GMPP block other than cost?
-CR
-CR
As for using an old style block, as long as its machined correctly, it is just as strong if not stronger then a new block. It is has been heat/cold cycled so many times the distortion in the block is usually at its end. Nothing wrong at all using an old block. Good machining is the key.
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Race Director
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 12,142
Likes: 54
From: Taylor Michigan
Originally Posted by ajrothm
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SB-Ch...1405QQtcZphoto
What do you engine guys think about a 4" stroke SB? Think it would be a lazy revver? I want as much torque as I can get out of a SB. That price can't be beat. He adds $500 for a custom built, pro-form 750 DP installed and dynoed on my engine. About $5500 dynoed and shipped. I think 510/510 should be good for mid-high 11s with a good stall converter.. What you guys think?
What do you engine guys think about a 4" stroke SB? Think it would be a lazy revver? I want as much torque as I can get out of a SB. That price can't be beat. He adds $500 for a custom built, pro-form 750 DP installed and dynoed on my engine. About $5500 dynoed and shipped. I think 510/510 should be good for mid-high 11s with a good stall converter.. What you guys think?
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 17,665
Likes: 194
From: Who says "Nothing is impossible" ? I've been doing nothing for years.
Vic Jr and Air Gap are the same height 
About a single plane being no good for the street BAWWAHHAAAHH
I have Vic Jr and have 3.08 rear gears and it is soooo much fun to drive on the street it should be illegal. My carb is properly tuned and throttle response is instant, you hit the gas it goes....fast.
The throttle response is so good the dyno operator started the dyno at 2000RPM, 460ft/lbs at 2000RPM's helps it get rolling
About a single plane being no good for the street BAWWAHHAAAHH
I have Vic Jr and have 3.08 rear gears and it is soooo much fun to drive on the street it should be illegal. My carb is properly tuned and throttle response is instant, you hit the gas it goes....fast.
The throttle response is so good the dyno operator started the dyno at 2000RPM, 460ft/lbs at 2000RPM's helps it get rolling
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,043
Likes: 4
From: Va
Originally Posted by jackson
I've been involved in regional circle track racing for a long time; as car owner, engine builder etc.
T&L has never done any work on any motor of mine ... BUT they've had a good reputation amongst regional CT racers for a long time. They've been building race motors a lot longer than ebay, this forum or even the internet's been around; they're long-time experts.
If you want a street motor they'll build it ... if you want a race motor they'll build it ... but don't try too hard to compare the two.
If a new stroker motor has all new rods, crank, pistons & heads ... assembled for around $5K ... be assured the rods & crank have aisian origin. That's why many hot street/strip motors have a $600 forged imported crank (scat, eagle etc) & why most true championship motors have a $3K forged crank (bryant, moldex etc) ... similar disparity for rods. Everything has its place ... but for most folks here, asian forged crank/rods are just fine so long as an expert checks them first.
BTW ... I've flown a 40+ year old red chinese fighter trainer with red chinese radial motor ... both Nanchang & myself are still operational ... been inside its motor too ... little difference between it & a P&W. We've all had experience with aisian junk ... but some aisian stuff is junk & some ain't.
T&L has never done any work on any motor of mine ... BUT they've had a good reputation amongst regional CT racers for a long time. They've been building race motors a lot longer than ebay, this forum or even the internet's been around; they're long-time experts.
If you want a street motor they'll build it ... if you want a race motor they'll build it ... but don't try too hard to compare the two.
If a new stroker motor has all new rods, crank, pistons & heads ... assembled for around $5K ... be assured the rods & crank have aisian origin. That's why many hot street/strip motors have a $600 forged imported crank (scat, eagle etc) & why most true championship motors have a $3K forged crank (bryant, moldex etc) ... similar disparity for rods. Everything has its place ... but for most folks here, asian forged crank/rods are just fine so long as an expert checks them first.
BTW ... I've flown a 40+ year old red chinese fighter trainer with red chinese radial motor ... both Nanchang & myself are still operational ... been inside its motor too ... little difference between it & a P&W. We've all had experience with aisian junk ... but some aisian stuff is junk & some ain't.
Pro
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 582
Likes: 3
From: Glen Allen (Richmond) Virginia
I made a swing by this shop a few months ago as I was in Charlotte on bussiness. You can eat off the floors in this place and they let me stand in the dyno room while they were twisting one up. I did not buy only because I wanted a correct 427 for my 69 coupe. These guys are the best I have ever seen and I am going to pick up a small block from them for my truck this spring.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,428
Likes: 5
From: Japan
Just to chime (no pun intended) in here- I didn't see in this thread whether Lloyd specifies a cast or forged crank for the 408 combo. A lot of these low-buck ebay engine vendors are marketing "cast steel" cranks in their stroker kits in order to persuade potential customers into thinking that they're getting something way stronger than stock by calling it "steel". Asian or not, (and rest assured for 5k you're getting Asian metal) the operative word here is "CAST". Castings tend toward brittleness and if you're gonna be pushing 510HP and big torque #'s around a four-inch arm in a 3300 lb. car you will break that crankshaft sooner rather than later, especially if you're gonna beat on it as you seem to be suggesting you will. The couple three hundred extra bucks that you'll spend to get an Asian FORGING bolted into that bad boy would be cheap insurance indeed. If your 'cast steel' crank lets go at 6000 RPM it'll make a fine mess out of your motor in very short order, leaving you with little to salvage save a (single- or dual-plane, depending on your cup of tea) intake manifold and carburetor. IMHO
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 9,993
Likes: 1,136
From: League City Tx
AS I read on the advertisement, its a 4340 forged steel crank. Chinese or not, I am not sure...... Rods are H beam steel. Granted these are not top shelf race parts but I would think they would be fine for a low rpm(6200 or less) street motor thats running on muscle, no spray or boost. I mean ****, freakin old school pink rods will hold 500hp, how can the chinese H-beams with ARP bolts not? I have sprayed 175hp shots through basically stock 350 bottom ends and they ran 11s for dozens of bottles. That was cast stock stuff, even pistons. I find it hard to believe these engines T&L would not reliably hold the HP they are making.
As for the Victor intake, if its the same height as an air gap, it may be worth a try although I don't see how its gonna help on an engine that only revs to 6k, especially considering the intake doesn't even start until 3k.
As for the Victor intake, if its the same height as an air gap, it may be worth a try although I don't see how its gonna help on an engine that only revs to 6k, especially considering the intake doesn't even start until 3k.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,173
Likes: 5
From: Paducah Ky
Loyd told me the crank was forged and I will tell you that they have no questions about the integrity of thier build or they wouldn't let customers and other visitors watch them twist these motors up like they do.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,173
Likes: 5
From: Paducah Ky
Originally Posted by MotorHead
Vic Jr and Air Gap are the same height
I have Vic Jr and have 3.08 rear gears and it is soooo much fun to drive on the street it should be illegal.
I have Vic Jr and have 3.08 rear gears and it is soooo much fun to drive on the street it should be illegal.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,403
Likes: 95
Originally Posted by ajrothm
AS I read on the advertisement, its a 4340 forged steel crank. Chinese or not, I am not sure...... Rods are H beam steel. Granted these are not top shelf race parts but I would think they would be fine for a low rpm(6200 or less) street motor thats running on muscle, no spray or boost. I mean ****, freakin old school pink rods will hold 500hp, how can the chinese H-beams with ARP bolts not? I have sprayed 175hp shots through basically stock 350 bottom ends and they ran 11s for dozens of bottles. That was cast stock stuff, even pistons. I find it hard to believe these engines T&L would not reliably hold the HP they are making.
As for the Victor intake, if its the same height as an air gap, it may be worth a try although I don't see how its gonna help on an engine that only revs to 6k, especially considering the intake doesn't even start until 3k.
As for the Victor intake, if its the same height as an air gap, it may be worth a try although I don't see how its gonna help on an engine that only revs to 6k, especially considering the intake doesn't even start until 3k.
408 but you would on a 350. a dual plane RPM is a fine manifold on
a 327/350, it becomes a restriction on a 408. a victor Jr is a 3500/8000
manifold on a 327/350 not on a 408." read motorheads 460 pounds
of torque at 2000 rpm with a victor jr ". A dual plane on
a 396/427/454 is a good manifold, on a 500 cube motor it becomes
a restriction even at lower revs
Last edited by Little Mouse; Dec 6, 2006 at 12:28 PM.
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 9,993
Likes: 1,136
From: League City Tx
Originally Posted by Little Mouse
You would not want to run a 180 runner head even on a lower rpm
408 but you would on a 350. a dual plane RPM is a fine manifold on
a 327/350, it becomes a restriction on a 408. a victor Jr is a 3500/8000
manifold on a 327/350 not on a 408." read motorheads 460 pounds
of torque at 2000 rpm with a victor jr ". A dual plane on
a 396/427/454 is a good manifold, on a 500 cube motor it becomes
a restriction even at lower revs
408 but you would on a 350. a dual plane RPM is a fine manifold on
a 327/350, it becomes a restriction on a 408. a victor Jr is a 3500/8000
manifold on a 327/350 not on a 408." read motorheads 460 pounds
of torque at 2000 rpm with a victor jr ". A dual plane on
a 396/427/454 is a good manifold, on a 500 cube motor it becomes
a restriction even at lower revs
The why would you suppose that MOST street engine builders that are building hot, roller 383s with good heads are using the RPM air gap? It does have the half divided plenum but obviously the plenum volume is not near as great a single plane would be. Most of the local builders around here that are putting their custom 383s out are using air gaps. One local builder quoted me $7300 for a solid roller 383 with worked Dart heads and he was using a port matched air gap...why would he not use a Victor if he thought it would give me another 20hp? Just curious.
I did used to run a torker II(single plane) on a pontiac 406" and it was the preferred manifold in the pontiac community, even over the Performer RPM(already an air gap on a pontiac). Often running a 1", 4 hole spacer on the top of the torker II was THE combo, at least up until a couple of years ago. And pontiacs are only 6000 rpm motors but there is a big difference in a Torker II and a Victor rated RPM range.
