Top End Install Time
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,231
Likes: 65
From: Seattle WA
St. Jude Donor '14
This set typically isn't in stock at the stores, but this is what I have and it's outstanding.
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...hread+restorer
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...hread+restorer
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,883
Likes: 124
From: Lubbock TX
Make absolutely sure you clean around the top ring land. Grit and crap get trapped in there when you're working on an opened engine. If this stuff stays put, it'll score/scuff your cylinder walls, maybe worse. I'm not a big advocate of using compressed air when there's an open engine close, but that's just all that will get the stuff out of that area. IT WILL NOT WORK LOOSE AND GET BLOWN OUT OF THE ENGINE ON IT'S OWN!!!
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,590
Likes: 403
From: Nashville TN
St. Jude Donor '09
OK, got the block deck cleaned and measured the depth of the pistion at TDC. I'm at .040-.050 range on all the cylinders. So I think that means that I can go with the .015 steel shim head gasket?
Just for grins I researched some of the block numbers so maybe we could figure out what I've got here. I'm not sure it has any bearing, but here is what I got:
Block - Engine Code t0713ckj CKJ 1973 350 tur hydro trans. L65 - 4 A B F/Bel Air/Kingswd Tonawanda July 13
Block - Partial VIN 13b635904
Block - Casting # 3970010 k 12
Just for grins I researched some of the block numbers so maybe we could figure out what I've got here. I'm not sure it has any bearing, but here is what I got:
Block - Engine Code t0713ckj CKJ 1973 350 tur hydro trans. L65 - 4 A B F/Bel Air/Kingswd Tonawanda July 13
Block - Partial VIN 13b635904
Block - Casting # 3970010 k 12
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,590
Likes: 403
From: Nashville TN
St. Jude Donor '09
I'm ready to order parts. Anyone have a comment on the depth of the pistons in the hole at TDC? I can go with the .015 head gaskets? Correct? Also, anyone familiar with the L65 engine from GM and is that look like what I have?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,403
Likes: 95
you should be somewhere more like .025 to .032 piston depth.
your going to need a pan gasket make sure you get the right one one of them uses a thicker front seal.
Last edited by Little Mouse; Sep 9, 2009 at 12:41 AM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,246
Likes: 4
From: Bay Area CA
Your pistons are too far in the hole, or you didn't measure them right. I'll defer to more (greatly) experienced members to reason and comment as to possibly why. This might be a reason for less then good performance before. I would look at this before you start the rebuild, and look at possible solutions/outcomes before you do the rebuild.
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Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,164
Likes: 1
From: Europe, France
Make absolutely sure you clean around the top ring land. Grit and crap get trapped in there when you're working on an opened engine. If this stuff stays put, it'll score/scuff your cylinder walls, maybe worse. I'm not a big advocate of using compressed air when there's an open engine close, but that's just all that will get the stuff out of that area. IT WILL NOT WORK LOOSE AND GET BLOWN OUT OF THE ENGINE ON IT'S OWN!!!
It will prevent most of the crap to fall in
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,590
Likes: 403
From: Nashville TN
St. Jude Donor '09
I don't know how I could mess up the piston depth measurement though. I set the dial at zero on the deck and then moved over the piston to get the .040-.050 measurements. I even set dial to zero on the piston and measured to deck and got same numbers. I slid dial across piston on top of pin to verify from side-to-side. I cleaned the deck to metalic finish first and set bridge at angle as you suggested before I measured anything. I used dial to find TDC before I measured. I agree it does not make sense.
Anything else I can try? I'll look at it again tonight and see if I'm missing something. I could maybe shoot a quick video to show you what I'm doing and the numbers on the gauge.
If the compression numbers are wrong, at least we can assume that the cylinders have approximately same compression, so no weak cylinders (or they are all equally bad)?
Pro
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 725
Likes: 1
From: FL.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,403
Likes: 95
If the deck or head is not strait enough you will blow head gaskets
won't matter how thick or thin the gasket is.
.041 gasket is 9.1 cc volume the .015 3.2 cc volume your roughly adding 6cc of volume to the cylinder its like going from a 64cc head swithcing over to a 70 cc head.
.041 gaskets are in full gasket sets for a reason it saves everyones behind someone that has an engine that has been cut .010 they don't know it has been done they use the .015 gasket they have piston to head damage someone that zeros there deck the .041 works someone with a standard deck the .041 still works with a loss in compression.
A two stroke general motors diesel will be under around 25 pounds of boost or more has no head gasket you check the depth on the liners if one is to low for spec you put a shim under the liner raise it up.
won't matter how thick or thin the gasket is.
.041 gasket is 9.1 cc volume the .015 3.2 cc volume your roughly adding 6cc of volume to the cylinder its like going from a 64cc head swithcing over to a 70 cc head.
.041 gaskets are in full gasket sets for a reason it saves everyones behind someone that has an engine that has been cut .010 they don't know it has been done they use the .015 gasket they have piston to head damage someone that zeros there deck the .041 works someone with a standard deck the .041 still works with a loss in compression.
A two stroke general motors diesel will be under around 25 pounds of boost or more has no head gasket you check the depth on the liners if one is to low for spec you put a shim under the liner raise it up.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,590
Likes: 403
From: Nashville TN
St. Jude Donor '09
Here is where I'm at . . . radiators and support pulled, oil pan dropped and cam removed. I'm working on ordering parts right now. I want to clean everything up best I can and paint as much as possible.
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,246
Likes: 4
From: Bay Area CA
So what heads and cam did you choose? And if your sure about you piston to deck measurments, what compression ratio will you have with them (the heads)? 
The new compression ratio is going to be key to the power your going to make. ?
The new compression ratio is going to be key to the power your going to make. ?
Last edited by RunningMan373; Sep 15, 2009 at 11:39 PM.
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,911
Likes: 2
From: gold coast queensland
you have come so far. i would go the extra distance , get a chain and crane and lift the block out. build your new motor on a stand. so much easier then when u can stand in your engine compartment and really tidy up everyhting so much easier.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,590
Likes: 403
From: Nashville TN
St. Jude Donor '09
Funny you mention that. Last night while I was taking photos, I thought to myself that I only have a few more bolts to go and I could just pull the motor. I don't think I'm going to do it this go around, but it's tempting. I was planning to do when I beef-up/replace the bottom end in a couple of years.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,317
Likes: 111
From: St Louis MO
Comments:
1. If your piston top is .050 down in the cylinder at TDC, most likely it is with non-standard parts and/or the rods have been rebuilt too many times which shortens them and lowers the piston.
2. With a deck height of .040 to .050, if you don't pull and rebuild the short block, you need to use a thin gasket, not a thick composite (.041) gasket. With a .015 gasket, your quench will be a bit better, but still too wide at .065 - it should be .035 to .045.
3. Recommendation - Pull the engine, deck to 9.002, bore & hone for the next oversize (.030?), get new rods, pistons, etc. If you do this the piston should be at .002 in the hole. Then, using a composite gasket of .041, the quench height is .043 and you will have better knock resistance than with a quench height of .065.
1. If your piston top is .050 down in the cylinder at TDC, most likely it is with non-standard parts and/or the rods have been rebuilt too many times which shortens them and lowers the piston.
2. With a deck height of .040 to .050, if you don't pull and rebuild the short block, you need to use a thin gasket, not a thick composite (.041) gasket. With a .015 gasket, your quench will be a bit better, but still too wide at .065 - it should be .035 to .045.
3. Recommendation - Pull the engine, deck to 9.002, bore & hone for the next oversize (.030?), get new rods, pistons, etc. If you do this the piston should be at .002 in the hole. Then, using a composite gasket of .041, the quench height is .043 and you will have better knock resistance than with a quench height of .065.
Pro
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 725
Likes: 1
From: FL.
If your Pistons were .020"-025" in the Hole, youd Have a near Ideal Quench of ~.040" with the .015" gasket. Then Youd have the makings of a Potentially great Build.
But you Dont.
So I agree with those saying "Your not commited yet", pull the long Block , Find out why your Pistons depth is .050, Thats not a good Number for High performance!!.
If you dont have your Numbers in range for what you want ,the Build will be too unpredictable. If the matchup of parts isnt reasonable You could well end up with a Dog motor, Money Not well spent. Dont want to rain on your parade ..Just My 2cents worth.
Question, why the 200cc runners? If your engine ends with less than 9.8 - 10.1 :1 CR the Bodix's wont move that volume of air anyway , Recipe for a slug. What do you expect your CR to be, If I missed something here, I apologize.
But you Dont.
So I agree with those saying "Your not commited yet", pull the long Block , Find out why your Pistons depth is .050, Thats not a good Number for High performance!!.
If you dont have your Numbers in range for what you want ,the Build will be too unpredictable. If the matchup of parts isnt reasonable You could well end up with a Dog motor, Money Not well spent. Dont want to rain on your parade ..Just My 2cents worth.
Question, why the 200cc runners? If your engine ends with less than 9.8 - 10.1 :1 CR the Bodix's wont move that volume of air anyway , Recipe for a slug. What do you expect your CR to be, If I missed something here, I apologize.
Last edited by 69vettester; Sep 16, 2009 at 06:24 PM.