What is the factory correct method for paint on a 72 vette. Urethane, lacquer, etc. Does it matter for NCRS?

 

GM painted it with lacquer in St, Louis. For NCRS Flight Judging you can paint it with anything you like with the intent of making the final result look as close as possible to original factory appearance - including drips, runs, orange peel and unbuffed areas. The actual materials used are irrelevant. Over restoration (concours show car) is just as bad as under restoration.

There's tons of confusion on this issue, usually with people that don't actually judge. Many falsely believe that as long as lacquer is used, they're all set. Others have twisted some words into thinking that the NCRS said that BC/CC is now OK.

Both statements are false. All confused now?

 

Original paint on '72 cars did not have any clear coat...they were all single-stage paints until the Bowling Green plant started production.

As long as the color is very close to the original color code and hue/level of metallic, etc., you should be fine. Unless you are totally **** or are doing the car strictly to get NCRS judging points, put clear coat on it. If the color is correct for the car and matching to the original shade, you will lose minimal points for having clear coat....unless you just smooth and polish to a pristine finish (the Corvette plant's paint jobs weren't that great). The clear coat will help protect the base coat from UV fading/damage and also help protect from road rash damage. But, that's your call....

 

With all due respect- I seem to recall that you're not active in the NCRS. If I'm confusing you with someone else, my apologies.

Clear coat that's detected is a complete, 100% deduction.

 

Hi jd,
I think a big part of deciding which type of paint to use depends on 2 issues before you even get to the judging issues.
The acrylic lacquer paint that's still available gives an appearance much like the acrylic lacquer that was on our cars originally. It is however, much more 'delicate' than the new paints that are readily available. Great for a car that lives a sheltered life, but not so good for a car that's driven a lot in 'weather'.
The new paints give a very different look to the painted surface than lacquer does, but holds up beautifully in most conditions and use.
I chose acrylic lacquer, it was perfect for me, (I wanted my car's paint to look like it did 40 years ago); but not a good choice for most people.
Regards,
Alan

 

Are you going to go with the original white? Solid colors work well with single stage paints (no clear) easier to do touch up work as well. Metallic paint look much better with base coat/ clear coat. What ever its worth to you white (material wise) is the cheapest of all colors to paint (after your last weekend discovery I thought you could use a little good news.)

I think that I confused the OP with another member. Sorry

 

Hey Mike, I read where you recently judges an event. Do you tend to specialize in one area of the car over another. I've never been to an NCRS judged event but hopefully there will be one next season in the GTA and I'll go and watch.

 

Judges tend to prefer one area over another to stay in their 'comfort zone'. I tend to do mechanical (engine bay) if given a choice, but did exteriors this year to balance experienced with new on the various teams. It's tougher than it appears, but the biggest benefit is not having to lie on the ground doing chassis. Not fun if it's on hot pavement or wet grass.

We had only three cars to do- two original unrestored cars and one fresh out of the shop resto. The resto guy was certain his car would not take any deduct on paint 'because he used real lacquer'. After showing him what an original car looked like, he understood the deduction for 'not typical of factory appearance' (over restored) on his car.

 

FWIW, IMO, you can get a "close" match of the original lacquer using a clear coat. I did it as follows when I recently painted (as a test) my 1985 Blazer using (as a test) the Eastwood Lemans Blue metallic S/S Urethene. The 1st 3 coats (I could have gotten away with probably 2) were shot right out of the can (after activtor was added). The last 2 coats were approximately 75% clear and 25% paint. Paint and Clear mixed seperately with their activators then added together. Then I color sanded with 1000/1500/2000 and power compounded then power glazed. I left a bit of orange peel for 2 reasons. One, it wasn't a concours restoration and 2nd, metallic is very tricky when colorsanded (even at a 25% paint/75% clear ratio) and I was afraid of blotching and sanding down too much. I did this because I was thinking of using the exact same method on my '69 Corvette because I detest those "dipped in resin" CC jobs on vintage cars. My .02 FWIW. I'm sure though it wouldn't pass NCRS judging as lacquer.

 

100% loss of points for having a clear coat on the paint? Hmmm.... That sure will advance folks' interest in joining NCRS!! I thought NCRS was interested in the preservation of Corvettes. I guess that's only if they are 'preserved' exactly as the factory presented them.

P.S. If you take off 100% for having clear coat on the car, do you also take off 100% if the paint used wasn't lacquer? (...probably not... selective judging.... )

 

Your attitude probably scares people off the NCRS through ongoing twisting of rules that you choose to misunderstand- all in an effort to make the organization and it's members look like a bunch of idiots. Why attempt to give judging advice that would lead a poster astray when:

1) you are not a member and apparently never been to a meet
2) don't have a clue how the judging works
3) have obvious contempt for the organization

If a person chooses to enter his car in Flight Judging where the goal is to present a car that looks as identical as possible to typical factory production and the car has been painted with something that looks nothing like the materials or the methods the factory used - it has neither been 'preserved' nor 'restored'.

If you're trying to twist the meaning of the word preservation into 'saving it from the junkyard' then that's fine but where does need to compete for an award fit in? Maybe you would prefer to promote shows where everybody gets a shiny pat on the head trophy just for showing up?

 

I always wanted to join the NCRS but this is just what I am afraid of. It seems to be a club for the elite and not us regular guys. Too bad.............

 

I see I was right- way to go 7T1vette. You've misinformed yet another person.

tjh- tell you what. Instead taking my word for it, please join your local chapter for at least a year and participate in as many activities as you can. If after a year you still think it's a club only for 'the elite' and not us regular guys, let me know. I'll refund 100% of your money.

 

This isn't new, 7T1. For cars which did not have factory clear coat paint, the presence of clear coat on the judging field costs you points. For cars which had clear coat, absence of the clear coat will cost you.

There is no "selective judging" going on.

Kiss and make up with Mike; he made a good explanation of how things work.

Knowledge is power, tj. The NCRS has the knowledge available and will share it with you.

That's how regular guys become elite.

Join. Learn.



JD: PM sent.

 

I have no problem at all with some deduction of points for having clear coat on the paint. I DO have a problem with deducting 100% of the paint points because of it. Why not deduct all the paint points if someone puts wax on it??? It didn't come from the factory with wax, did it?

Total absurdity. And, I don't think I performed any disservice to other Forum members. This just helped folks understand the ridiculous level of rules interpretation by the NCRS. Actually, I think the NCRS does a disservice to itself by applying such absurd discriminitory rules for very minor difference issues.

Like the computer (W.H.O.P.P.E.R., I believe) said at the end of the the movie, "War Games". "Interesting.... The only way to win the game is not to play."

 

Psst! Since you know it all, please tell us how many points we're talking about here, in both absolute value and in % of the total.

Thanks!

BTW- if you had any clue what you were talking about, you'd already know the answer to the 'wax' question and not have to ask. Clue- it's in the basic definition of the judging standard.

 

Hi tjh,
It is often said of various 'car organizations', and is certainly true of the NCRS... "people join because of the cars, but stay because of the people".
I've met many people who've been willing to share immense amounts of knowledge and information with me and have become very close to some of them.
Yes, some elite people, some real jerks, but mostly just car guys.
For me, spending a day or two around a group of cars like these, and with guys who love them as much as I do, is just about as good as it gets. This picture is from the regional meet held in Wildwood N.J. this past May. A regional meet is a mid-level meet; between a local chapter meet (smaller), and the national convention (larger).
You should join.... the worst that can happen is that you'll be out the $35 membership fee.
Give it a try!
Regards,
Alan

 

Mike Ward....

Several years ago, I had seriously considered joining NCRS. When I looked into it and talked to folks (some were members, some were not), the program appeared to me to be more of a "cult" than an open membership. Everything is precisely detailed..and only certain "experts" have the ability to know what is 'correct' and what is not.

But, there were instances of totally different interpretation of rules and, in some cases where a clear decision could not be made, decisions were rendered in a somewhat arbitrary manner.

When you get NO points for paint (regardless of how many it is!) because you put a $10K paint job [of original color] on your car..but opted for a clear coat because of it's ability to protect the paint and keep it from oxidizing; or you get 'docked' points for having a GM approved, dealer installed option [right-side mirror for safety reasons or luggage rack, etc., etc.]; or you don't leave all the bare metal to rust (like the factory did), it just smacks of a system that has taken an originally good intention and turned it into a beaurocratic nightmare. Some folks like that sort of thing...I don't.

In concept, NCRS is a nice idea. If you are "in the club", everything is just peachy. If you are a new member or someone who takes issue with a ridiculous interpretation of a rule....you're a troublemaker and those aren't allowed.

 

Nice speech- but you avoided the question, I guess because you don't have clue what the answer is.

The total deduct would amount to about 45 points out of 4500 or 1%. Big frikken' deal. For comparison, a burned out dash lamp and non functioning ciggy lighter would be a total deduction of 50 points out of 4500. I suppose now you'll find that taking deductions for those items is also proof that we're sick in the head. Back to the paint- assuming the paint colour was correct, there would be no deduct for that. Surprise! Same as there would be no deduct for wax as that was a common part of dealer prep.

These are all standard judging rules that everyone has access to, member or not and certainly not restricted to a clique as you like to make out and obviously not arbitrarily assigned punishments.

BTW- deduction for a r/h mirror is a mind boggling ............wait for it.........................1 point. Oh, the horror, the horror.

Let me see, if I had the choice of joining one of two clubs- one with you in it, or another with gentlemen like Alan- guess which one I'd choose?

 

7T1vette,

You are 100% correct. you should not loose any points for clear coat since it protects from uv better. Also a right hand mirror should also not get a deduction since it is for safety. A 700r4 should also be overlooked without deduction due to the increase in fuel economy. Those nutty NCRs judges, don't they know you can get a bad back from supportive original seats. No deduction if you put in a set of C-6 seats as long as they are from a Corvette whats the big deal. Those dope judges better not take off for my aluminum radiator that I NEED to get to the show without over heating. Add fuel injection and electronic ignition for dependability and you have one nice NCRS Top Flight car.

Mike Ward, can you judge this car from the pictures? I think it should be awarded NCRS DUNTOV Mark of Excellence Award (if you overlook the upgrades that make it better)