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Mine requires more steering effort than the original setup.
when I first installed mine, during the first drive, mine ended up requiring very strong effort to steer. Turns out, the fluid was low. I had topped it off while it was running on jack stands right after the install, put it on the ground, turned fully left and right, repeatedly, but after the first drive around the block, the fluid was really low. After I topped it off again, all has been fine since then. I'm thinking of putting a flow restrictor on the pump output because (in my opinion only), the steering assist is too much, overboosted.
I'm going to tackle my Borgeson install this Spring and just wanted to double check that collapsing the steering while in the car will not damage any component in the column?
Thanks
Last edited by How Are You; Feb 10, 2019 at 05:48 PM.
Use a wire wheel to clean it, soak it in rust buster, used wood to cushion hits. tap easy so it does not go in too far.. no issues Some people use a hose clamp to stop the column from going to far in .
You do break two plastic tabs, but that is intentional. I had to remove my column to get it to work. I'd suggest you do the same, as it will make mounting the box easier. I also replaced the lower column bearing at the same time.
You do break two plastic tabs, but that is intentional. I had to remove my column to get it to work. I'd suggest you do the same, as it will make mounting the box easier. I also replaced the lower column bearing at the same time.
i did mine in-car, put a piece of 2x4 to protect the end, and the tried hitting with my 2.5lb hammer, due to the limited confines of the work space (brake lines, alternator, etc), I couldn't really get good whacks, it didn't budge. so then I took away the wooden block, but took great care to make sure I hit it square so as not to damage the splines, and then it moved, steadily. I think maybe you need some greater initial force just to get it moving. after that, it all went together fine, no issues with mushrooming or damaged splines. that was my experience. YMMV.
I got a used Borgeson power steering box kit from a C2 owner who had it removed from his car at Wilcox who complained that it was "too much" boost. I was assured by the tech at Wilcox that it would make my '82 feel great because my wheels are 1" wider. As I'm always replacing things I always look for a bargain. This unit, however, while sitting in my lap, binds at the center of travel when I turn it by hand at the rag joint. Makes me think that was the problem on the fellow's C2, that the moment of unbinding made his car steer erratically. Since it is at the center of travel, that's where it would be most of the time while driving a straight line, therefor it would be going in and out of the binding spot. Could be mistaken as too much boost.
Also, when I drained the unit, still full of fluid, RED fluid came out, not golden as I would have expected. Borgeson says specifically not to use ATF. If I can adjust the binding away, can I also clean the ATF out of the unit adequately before adding real power steering fluid?
I just finished collapsing my steering column, removed all my old PS gear, and the old steering box. I'm pretty committed. But I'm not sure I can continue with this unit.
Advice, anyone???
Steve
Steve,
I just removed the kit from Dave's car... it's not a matter of 1" wider tires, your tires would be way wider then the factory tires on a 1967 which this kit was removed from.
The issue with the mid year cars and the borgsen kit is that the kit is over-responsive... The tires are way too skinny and when you hit a bump on the road the car darts..
For you, I'd probably give Borgeson a call and see if they can help you with the issue. I didn't install the unit, I didn't seem to feel any issue with the unit in parking lot driving... (which was the only drive of the car that we did before we removed it). We've ran into this issue with a mid year car before and highway driving the mid year was terrible and jerked constantly and this was Dave's complaint after he installed the kit... We simply removed the unit and installed factory power steering on the car and he's tickled with it now.
I kind of feel in the middle here... and I'm sorry for referring you to Dave for the removed kit.
In my own defense, I don't know anything about this system, we did install it on a 69 without issue and it drove like a dream...
So give Borgeson a call and see if they can help you.
I installed a Turn One power steering pump flow restrictor, PN1115. As advertised, it did reduce the feeling of being overboosted, and the steering now gives me better road feel, my C3 no longer feels "skittish". When I swapped out the fitting, I lost about 8oz of power steering fluid, to be replaced after the high-pressure hose has been reconnected. The orifice in the take-out fitting is .116", as measured with drill bits. The orifice in the Turn One fitting is .092", which represents a 40% reduction in cross-sectional area. So far, so good.
I won't. The GM setup properly done is fine with me. I don't have to remove steering columns, bang on them to make parts fit, worry about fit and alignment, and see rag-joints wear out in a year. Then go with a u-joint. And hope for the best. GM engineers knew what they were doing.
You’re right Paul, the GM engineers knew what they were doing, but not in the way you think. That old antiquated power steering system the Corvette was burdened with was almost state of the art in 1963 when it first appeared on the C2 Corvette. Soon GM developed better systems, where the function of the external ram was incorporated into the steering gear box. It was so simple, just two hydraulic lines, a high pressure hose from the pump to the steering box, and a return line. It was neater, cleaner, it worked better, and required much less maintenance.
The only problem for the Corvette was these new integral power steering boxes were too large to fit the Corvette C2 & C3 chassis. With the Corvette’s limited production, compared to the rest of GM’s car output, these savvy GM engineers knew there wasn’t enough money to develop a new power steering system to fit the Corvette.
As time went on, Saginaw, the power steering division of GM, began developing power steering systems for other manufacturers. Lucky us, they built one for Jeep vehicles. And what do you know, it was small enough to fit our Corvettes. Well, it was small enough, but the mounts didn’t fit the Corvette chassis.
Some early adapters among us fitted the Jeep steering gear themselves, surely not a plug and play deal. But then along came Borgeson with the engineering know how and a facility to modify that Jeep power steering box to fit our Corvettes. Basically, they gutted the Jeep steering box, removed mounting lugs, then placed the steering box in a jig to maintain internal dimensions, and welded on new mounting lugs to fit the Corvette. Once that was done, the jig was removed, the empty steering box was thoroughly cleaned, and new guts installed.
So what we have is a more modern GM developed power steering gear, modified to fit C2 & C3 chassis. Yep, GM engineers knew what they were doing all right.
You’re right Paul, the GM engineers knew what they were doing, but not in the way you think. That old antiquated power steering system the Corvette was burdened with was almost state of the art in 1963 when it first appeared on the C2 Corvette. Soon GM developed better systems, where the function of the external ram was incorporated into the steering gear box. It was so simple, just two hydraulic lines, a high pressure hose from the pump to the steering box, and a return line. It was neater, cleaner, it worked better, and required much less maintenance.
The only problem for the Corvette was these new integral power steering boxes were too large to fit the Corvette C2 & C3 chassis. With the Corvette’s limited production, compared to the rest of GM’s car output, these savvy GM engineers knew there wasn’t enough money to develop a new power steering system to fit the Corvette.
As time went on, Saginaw, the power steering division of GM, began developing power steering systems for other manufacturers. Lucky us, they built one for Jeep vehicles. And what do you know, it was small enough to fit our Corvettes. Well, it was small enough, but the mounts didn’t fit the Corvette chassis.
Some early adapters among us fitted the Jeep steering gear themselves, surely not a plug and play deal. But then along came Borgeson with the engineering know how and a facility to modify that Jeep power steering box to fit our Corvettes. Basically, they gutted the Jeep steering box, removed mounting lugs, then placed the steering box in a jig to maintain internal dimensions, and welded on new mounting lugs to fit the Corvette. Once that was done, the jig was removed, the empty steering box was thoroughly cleaned, and new guts installed.
So what we have is a more modern GM developed power steering gear, modified to fit C2 & C3 chassis. Yep, GM engineers knew what they were doing all right.
I agree 100% with what you wrote.
However, Paul L. passed away about 5 years after he posted the comment to which you replied.
a quick look at 58-59 Chevy Impala's on ebay shows the same hydraulic ram power steering setup. I mean, there's vintage (C3's), and then there's antiquated (1958 Impala).
yup, almost state-of-the-art in 1963.
ETA: respects to Paul L., he leaves a footprint and legacy in this thread. RIP.
What a great thread. Had the time to read while sitting on the beach in Hawaii. My car is all put away for winter and I'm mulling over this upgrade. My main question is, who out there has done this on a 1980 C3? Any unique challenges? I have sb350, Hooker sidepipes. I have also cut 1 coil from vb&p 550lb springs to lower it. System has started seeping and I am convinced of the reasons to move to a more advanced steering system.
What a great thread. Had the time to read while sitting on the beach in Hawaii. My car is all put away for winter and I'm mulling over this upgrade. My main question is, who out there has done this on a 1980 C3? Any unique challenges? I have sb350, Hooker sidepipes. I have also cut 1 coil from vb&p 550lb springs to lower it. System has started seeping and I am convinced of the reasons to move to a more advanced steering system.
I have a BBC in my '78, and the VBP 550# springs. I had removed all the GM PS components because I was tired of the constant recurring leaks, so was driving it in manual mode. Front ride height in this configuration was perfect, just one simple BBC cast-iron alternator bracket. But parallel parking was horrendous. Then I installed the Borgeson system, along with all the requisite BBC C3 GM OEM steel PS pump & alternator brackets to support it. Woah, ride height is now road-racer style. can definitely feel all that extra weight. The road feel with the 550# springs went from "stiff" to "firm". But I'm enjoying the PS, already taking it for granted. I might fool around with another pump flow restrictor fitting, could use just a skosh more road feel, less assist.
well, you got a SBC, and already got the PS pump mounted, so since you're jettisoning the antique hydraulics, heave ho! and installing the Borgeson, actually might make your front end lighter. Your road ride quality will probably get stiffer, a more "robust" ride. My recommendation would be to install the Turn One pump flow restrictor right from the outset.
What a great thread. Had the time to read while sitting on the beach in Hawaii. My car is all put away for winter and I'm mulling over this upgrade. My main question is, who out there has done this on a 1980 C3? Any unique challenges? I have sb350, Hooker sidepipes. I have also cut 1 coil from vb&p 550lb springs to lower it. System has started seeping and I am convinced of the reasons to move to a more advanced steering system.
I converted my 80 to manual steering, but I did convert my 79 to Borgeson. The biggest problem is probably getting the larger Borgeson box to fit with the headers. Here's a picture of my @GTR1999 rebuilt stock steering box with the Hooker sidepipe headers in my 80. I didn't have to dent them, but it was a tight fit.
If you do it, just go ahead and buy a new steering pump (the flow restrictors might be a great idea, too, as the steering in the 79 is REALLY light). I ended up swapping out the steering pump after everything was done, so I got to do the hoses twice.
What a great thread. Had the time to read while sitting on the beach in Hawaii. My car is all put away for winter and I'm mulling over this upgrade. My main question is, who out there has done this on a 1980 C3? Any unique challenges? I have sb350, Hooker sidepipes. I have also cut 1 coil from vb&p 550lb springs to lower it. System has started seeping and I am convinced of the reasons to move to a more advanced steering system.
I converted my 80 over, it has Doug's side pipe headers but stock height. Only challenge is working in tight spaces, Getting around the headers can be a pain but if you have a helper it will be a little easier. The biggest problem I had was collapsing the steering shaft and not messing up the spline. You don't have a lot of space to swing a mallet. But once in it works fine and I love it.
I converted my 80 to manual steering, but I did convert my 79 to Borgeson. The biggest problem is probably getting the larger Borgeson box to fit with the headers. Here's a picture of my @GTR1999 rebuilt stock steering box with the Hooker sidepipe headers in my 80. I didn't have to dent them, but it was a tight fit.
If you do it, just go ahead and buy a new steering pump (the flow restrictors might be a great idea, too, as the steering in the 79 is REALLY light). I ended up swapping out the steering pump after everything was done, so I got to do the hoses twice.
The light steering is my concern. Changing the raio that much has me worried and not sure a flow restrictor is going to be enough. I have contacted Gary and am considering that route as well. Wish I could drive one first. That being said I would love to get rid of the ram assy.......
I converted my 80 over, it has Doug's side pipe headers but stock height. Only challenge is working in tight spaces, Getting around the headers can be a pain but if you have a helper it will be a little easier. The biggest problem I had was collapsing the steering shaft and not messing up the spline. You don't have a lot of space to swing a mallet. But once in it works fine and I love it.
Overly sensitive steering at higher speeds? Concerned it will be too touchy due to ratio change
I converted my 81 over to Borgeson while I was replacing my engine last fall. I love the steering and I do not feel that it is too light. I did not change the pump out. Install was easy and steering column was also not a problem.
The light steering is my concern. Changing the raio that much has me worried and not sure a flow restrictor is going to be enough. I have contacted Gary and am considering that route as well. Wish I could drive one first. That being said I would love to get rid of the ram assy.......
Originally Posted by akdale
Overly sensitive steering at higher speeds? Concerned it will be too touchy due to ratio change
The Borgeson is on my wife's 79. She LOVES it. The feel of the car has been completely changed. With the Borgeson, a stock L-48, TH350 automatic, a good stereo with bluetooth and USB, nice paint, new brakes, and a fresh interior with really nice leather seats (thanks PO!), the car is perfect for her.
The manual steering is on my 80 4-speed, which is stiff, loud, and obnoxious to drive. Perfect for me.
Neither car is twitchy at speed, but that is due to the alignment. The 79 tracks straight on the highway, but the steering stays light. The Borgeson also has higher turn ratio than stock. Altogether, it simply feels like a modern sedan. I did not change the caster, though adding some would likely stiffen up the steering a bit.
On the 80, I changed to SPC adjustable upper control arms, which let me add a lot of caster, probably too much. As a result, it is nearly impossible to park, but I can back into spaces like a truck. It feels very precise when driving, though.
I hope this helps. I'm happy with both solutions. They enhance the differences between the two cars for the better.
The Borgeson is on my wife's 79. She LOVES it. The feel of the car has been completely changed. With the Borgeson, a stock L-48, TH350 automatic, a good stereo with bluetooth and USB, nice paint, new brakes, and a fresh interior with really nice leather seats (thanks PO!), the car is perfect for her.
The manual steering is on my 80 4-speed, which is stiff, loud, and obnoxious to drive. Perfect for me.
Neither car is twitchy at speed, but that is due to the alignment. The 79 tracks straight on the highway, but the steering stays light. The Borgeson also has higher turn ratio than stock. Altogether, it simply feels like a modern sedan. I did not change the caster, though adding some would likely stiffen up the steering a bit.
On the 80, I changed to SPC adjustable upper control arms, which let me add a lot of caster, probably too much. As a result, it is nearly impossible to park, but I can back into spaces like a truck. It feels very precise when driving, though.
I hope this helps. I'm happy with both solutions. They enhance the differences between the two cars for the better.
Appreciate the feedback. My 80 is much like yours. I do want assist. Just don't want to make a $700 error.
