Top end build l48
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,948
Likes: 72
From: Oxford MA-----You just lost the game!!!!
I finally broke down and bought an Innovate LM-2 last year, it's awesome! You still need to have some tuning skills, but the A/F gauge makes everything a lot easier.
Scott
Scott
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,948
Likes: 72
From: Oxford MA-----You just lost the game!!!!
Scott
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,948
Likes: 72
From: Oxford MA-----You just lost the game!!!!
One the nice things about having a vacuum gauge is that it can teach you to drive in such a way as to get better fuel mileage. When you put your foot in it, and the vacuum goes down, you're getting crappy mileage. Keep the vacuum level high, better fuel mileage. Although, you shouldn't be looking at your gauges with your foot to the floor! That's a good way to get the shiny side down, greasy side up! Eyes on the road and hands on the wheel when foot is to the floor!
Scott
Scott
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Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,031
Likes: 1,121
From: North tonawanda NY
Curious? Do you have any experience with theses heads or are you just repeating what you've read before? I know there were some issues with the older heads as well as many other early heads from companies starting out.... AFR heads had all sorts of issues when they came out.
This reminds me of the hooker chromed steel side pipes at twice the price vs stainl ess OBX side pipes argument.... everyone assumes the hookers are better...in some ways yes but the OBX have advantages....like lasting ten times longer.. (which looks better in 5-10 years)
I don't mind reading opinions but without any experience, facts or even stated reason its hard to put any stock in it.
I replaced a set of pacesetter headers that rotted out on my truck with obx stainless headers that were half the price... I did a side by side comparison with pics and specs showing the welds were better and flow was cleaner with larger ports and they are stainless!..... some just refused to believe it .... praising the Mexican pacesetters instead because they used a once American company name...and the obx "are too cheap to be any good" well the headers still look great a year later.
I think many people don't want to believe that their could possibly be a better value in heads out there than the $1,500 heads or $1,200 sidepipes they shelled out themselves so they are quick to criticize... they may not be as good in every respect but for those who could use the money for other things...
This reminds me of the hooker chromed steel side pipes at twice the price vs stainl ess OBX side pipes argument.... everyone assumes the hookers are better...in some ways yes but the OBX have advantages....like lasting ten times longer.. (which looks better in 5-10 years)
I don't mind reading opinions but without any experience, facts or even stated reason its hard to put any stock in it.
I replaced a set of pacesetter headers that rotted out on my truck with obx stainless headers that were half the price... I did a side by side comparison with pics and specs showing the welds were better and flow was cleaner with larger ports and they are stainless!..... some just refused to believe it .... praising the Mexican pacesetters instead because they used a once American company name...and the obx "are too cheap to be any good" well the headers still look great a year later.
I think many people don't want to believe that their could possibly be a better value in heads out there than the $1,500 heads or $1,200 sidepipes they shelled out themselves so they are quick to criticize... they may not be as good in every respect but for those who could use the money for other things...
Last edited by augiedoggy; Jul 2, 2013 at 04:56 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,031
Likes: 1,121
From: North tonawanda NY
Ironically here's a note related to the very subject of the previous comment I posted on....
"A word about car forums: often a source of knowledge, but sometimes a mass of confusion coupled with ignorance. We have read much of the good and bad press on the Procomp heads and find great error in the so called "bad press" that often leads to a herd mentality, leaving potential customers greatly misinformed, or at least confused. I was hesitant to write this but the time has come. About 7-10 years ago, Procomp did have a few issues in the developmental phase of their cylinder heads. We did very little business with them in the way of cylinder heads and noticed a few minor problems with them. That is when we chose heads from another supplier. About 4 years ago, Procomp pleaded with us to check out their new and very much improved cylinder heads, so we did. We went so far as to cut the cylinder heads in half, ran flow numbers, checked runner and combustion chamber sizes, guides, seats, casting quality, fitment, etc. We critiqued these heads in every possible way and found them to be totally acceptable. Then extensive dynoing was performed for our engine program and these heads, with our choice of hardware, produced excellent results, far better than we expected. Problems with these heads have been few and far between. Rest assured, we would not be using them on our Stage II 470hp engine and warranty it for 3 years unlimited mileage if there was any chance of problems developing. Most of the problems experienced by others buying the heads from various sellers were found to be caused by low-grade or wrong hardware. We know this to be fact. This is why we are very selective with our choice of hardware. We have eliminated three hardware items that we were suspicious of causing potential long term problems, and will continue to pay close attention to hardware and its effects on the heads. We have sold to date 1/1/2013, at least 6,000 sets of these heads and rest assured problems have been few and far between.
Many forum members that have purchased high end cylinder heads rather than the lower cost Procomp's have done so thinking it is required for building a decent mid level street rod upon the advise of those who really know nothing about what is suitable for their needs. Then you have people purchasing the premium heads due to the fact they are able to afford the best and truly appreciate the finer aspects of a high end set of heads for use on engines usually built to a "Pro-street" level or close to it. This certainly makes good sense. Some will purchase the high end heads for no more reason than to establish bragging rights, a badge of honor if you will. They have adorned their engine with a high end set of heads only to impress others at car shows, and on car forums. This is a somewhat common behavior, but many of these people feel compelled to criticize or belittle others possessing the lower cost products. They make disparaging comments about these people, and the products they have with the sole intent to make the lower cost products seem less impressive than what they really are. Most of the negative info you read on the forums about the Procomp heads is nothing more than a pack of lies and exaggerations. The high end head owners seem to have a problem with the fact that just about anyone can now afford to bring their engine up to very high levels of performance for such a reduced price. This unjust criticism often leads to a herd mentality on the car forums. None of these people have any real knowledge of the Procomp heads whatsoever. These make believe "high brows" are pretending to possess great intellectual knowledge often sprouting flow numbers and jargon they really don't understand, and hope you don't. They are quick to bring up the offshore origin of the Procomp heads claiming that should be reason enough not to purchase them; all the while what sits beneath and around their illustrious high end heads is a cornucopia of offshore parts. Items such as an Eagle or Scat crank and rods, housed in a block possibly made in Mexico by GM, and dozens of other items made in a land far away. You usually can't see these products when you look at their engine and they really don't want to talk about it, so don't ever ask them. Upon closer inspection of their high-end heads, you may find his ego in there somewhere, and therein lies the problem. At that point don't even mention Procomp cylinder heads being a decent product with excellent value.
Many of these offshore parts used in engines are totally acceptable and of good quality and there are some of very poor quality. We certainly know where to draw the line with offshore products, and continue drawing that line with the elimination of parts that we once accepted but have shown to be a potential problem sooner or later. I want you to take my word that in the rare event you have issues with our Procomp heads, the problem will be taken care of. So next time you visit a car forum, and I do recommend it, be sure to read between the lines, and feel free to share your experience to forum members.
This article is the result of being fed up with so many distasteful people that troll the car forums, and I'm sure it will soon end up on the forums, should they dare. Skip White
Original listing is here.... http://www.ebay.com/itm/SBC-CHEVY-210CC-FULLY-BUILT-ALUMINUM-HEADS-64CC-CNCd-/370398568479?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item563d79a01f&vxp=mtrI'd like to hear feedback on these heads good or bad but I think I will start another thread on the subject than take this one off course anymore than I already have....
I just thought these heads looked to be a good value to someone building on a budget."
Guess this can apply to the pro comp intakes recently brought up as well.
"A word about car forums: often a source of knowledge, but sometimes a mass of confusion coupled with ignorance. We have read much of the good and bad press on the Procomp heads and find great error in the so called "bad press" that often leads to a herd mentality, leaving potential customers greatly misinformed, or at least confused. I was hesitant to write this but the time has come. About 7-10 years ago, Procomp did have a few issues in the developmental phase of their cylinder heads. We did very little business with them in the way of cylinder heads and noticed a few minor problems with them. That is when we chose heads from another supplier. About 4 years ago, Procomp pleaded with us to check out their new and very much improved cylinder heads, so we did. We went so far as to cut the cylinder heads in half, ran flow numbers, checked runner and combustion chamber sizes, guides, seats, casting quality, fitment, etc. We critiqued these heads in every possible way and found them to be totally acceptable. Then extensive dynoing was performed for our engine program and these heads, with our choice of hardware, produced excellent results, far better than we expected. Problems with these heads have been few and far between. Rest assured, we would not be using them on our Stage II 470hp engine and warranty it for 3 years unlimited mileage if there was any chance of problems developing. Most of the problems experienced by others buying the heads from various sellers were found to be caused by low-grade or wrong hardware. We know this to be fact. This is why we are very selective with our choice of hardware. We have eliminated three hardware items that we were suspicious of causing potential long term problems, and will continue to pay close attention to hardware and its effects on the heads. We have sold to date 1/1/2013, at least 6,000 sets of these heads and rest assured problems have been few and far between.
Many forum members that have purchased high end cylinder heads rather than the lower cost Procomp's have done so thinking it is required for building a decent mid level street rod upon the advise of those who really know nothing about what is suitable for their needs. Then you have people purchasing the premium heads due to the fact they are able to afford the best and truly appreciate the finer aspects of a high end set of heads for use on engines usually built to a "Pro-street" level or close to it. This certainly makes good sense. Some will purchase the high end heads for no more reason than to establish bragging rights, a badge of honor if you will. They have adorned their engine with a high end set of heads only to impress others at car shows, and on car forums. This is a somewhat common behavior, but many of these people feel compelled to criticize or belittle others possessing the lower cost products. They make disparaging comments about these people, and the products they have with the sole intent to make the lower cost products seem less impressive than what they really are. Most of the negative info you read on the forums about the Procomp heads is nothing more than a pack of lies and exaggerations. The high end head owners seem to have a problem with the fact that just about anyone can now afford to bring their engine up to very high levels of performance for such a reduced price. This unjust criticism often leads to a herd mentality on the car forums. None of these people have any real knowledge of the Procomp heads whatsoever. These make believe "high brows" are pretending to possess great intellectual knowledge often sprouting flow numbers and jargon they really don't understand, and hope you don't. They are quick to bring up the offshore origin of the Procomp heads claiming that should be reason enough not to purchase them; all the while what sits beneath and around their illustrious high end heads is a cornucopia of offshore parts. Items such as an Eagle or Scat crank and rods, housed in a block possibly made in Mexico by GM, and dozens of other items made in a land far away. You usually can't see these products when you look at their engine and they really don't want to talk about it, so don't ever ask them. Upon closer inspection of their high-end heads, you may find his ego in there somewhere, and therein lies the problem. At that point don't even mention Procomp cylinder heads being a decent product with excellent value.
Many of these offshore parts used in engines are totally acceptable and of good quality and there are some of very poor quality. We certainly know where to draw the line with offshore products, and continue drawing that line with the elimination of parts that we once accepted but have shown to be a potential problem sooner or later. I want you to take my word that in the rare event you have issues with our Procomp heads, the problem will be taken care of. So next time you visit a car forum, and I do recommend it, be sure to read between the lines, and feel free to share your experience to forum members.
This article is the result of being fed up with so many distasteful people that troll the car forums, and I'm sure it will soon end up on the forums, should they dare. Skip White
Original listing is here.... http://www.ebay.com/itm/SBC-CHEVY-210CC-FULLY-BUILT-ALUMINUM-HEADS-64CC-CNCd-/370398568479?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item563d79a01f&vxp=mtrI'd like to hear feedback on these heads good or bad but I think I will start another thread on the subject than take this one off course anymore than I already have....
I just thought these heads looked to be a good value to someone building on a budget."
Guess this can apply to the pro comp intakes recently brought up as well.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 366
Likes: 0
You dont have too. This is a thread about my l48 build and all I have left is heads. By all means please debate heads for the money. I will hold on the heads. Yes If you have experience with the procomp heads chime in! I know people hate on ebay just cause they payed more for the same
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,031
Likes: 1,121
From: North tonawanda NY
Some more useful info from that same seller I found interesting.... I already bought used dart heads but otherwise I would seriously consider these... they have 58cc versions for your dished pistons as well...I bought a handful of stuff from this seller including a nice water pump and my intake... He seems to have a good honest rep as mentioned on many forums. YouTube has videos on these as well... apparently the first version of these heads had a lot of quality issues but these are much improved versions....
" Our Stage One engines were all built with the Procomp 210 heads and the Howards 488/510 hyd. flat tappet cam. This setup produces 402 hp @5950 rpm, and our Stage Three 406 engine produces 505 hp with these same heads, using a 565/580 hyd. roller cam. The Stage Three engine setup proved that these heads are capable of making power well beyond what they are doing on our Stage One 350 engine and our Stage II 383 stroker. For those building 350 engines with cams in the 460-470 range we recommend the 210cc runner heads. Those building milder 350 engines with cams only slightly over stock should use the PC-190 heads. Those running 350 engines with dish pistons will certainly want to run our 58cc/210cc combustion chamber heads, as they will bring the compression up to a decent range, and allow the use of a healthy size cam.
We did one more test worth mentioning. We also sell the Dart Platinum Pro One aluminum heads, so we decided to mount a set of the 200cc Darts on the engine while it had the Howards 488/510 hyd. flat tappet cam in it. It made the best hp between the two but only by 6hp over the PC heads. The dart heads would be a waste of money on the level of street rod we were testing. They may prevail in a much more serious buildup. The Procomp heads are positively the best value by far.
We are puzzled as to why the two different brands of heads ran so close to one another in hp numbers, considering they are very different in flow characteristics. As our company founder explains it, the results of these heads will vary greatly by what type setup you are running. Our test engine is not a good way to determine the true overall value of a cylinder head, but our test engine is representative as to what most street rodders are running. This would be a small block 350 or 383 in the 9.8:1 to 10.8:1 compression range, give or take, being able to run on pump gas, with good street manners, must have a somewhat lopey idle, and most importantly that the engine is not setup in a way that it is short lived or unreliable, while still making around 400+hp. Last but not least, a build up that is not going to cost a fortune. We are sure that the Dart Platinum Pro 1 heads would out perform any of the heads we tested in more serious buildup, and they are of very good quality, but the cost on them is two and half times over our PC heads. The PC heads with the 210cc runners seem to be the best choice for the money without any sacrifice of power worth mentioning when running setups such as mentioned above. The Procomp heads do thrive on a good size street rod cam. The 210cc runners would most likely run very well with cams up to .580 range or more. Even though the PC heads are not flowing on the exhaust side as well as we would like, using the right cam more than compensates for this. We think PC heads are the best value for the money you can possibly find. Our dyno testing has proven that when building a 350 engine in the 400hp range, the PC heads are up there with the best. We are also certain that the PC-210 heads are an even better matchup for the 383 buildups.
" Our Stage One engines were all built with the Procomp 210 heads and the Howards 488/510 hyd. flat tappet cam. This setup produces 402 hp @5950 rpm, and our Stage Three 406 engine produces 505 hp with these same heads, using a 565/580 hyd. roller cam. The Stage Three engine setup proved that these heads are capable of making power well beyond what they are doing on our Stage One 350 engine and our Stage II 383 stroker. For those building 350 engines with cams in the 460-470 range we recommend the 210cc runner heads. Those building milder 350 engines with cams only slightly over stock should use the PC-190 heads. Those running 350 engines with dish pistons will certainly want to run our 58cc/210cc combustion chamber heads, as they will bring the compression up to a decent range, and allow the use of a healthy size cam.
We did one more test worth mentioning. We also sell the Dart Platinum Pro One aluminum heads, so we decided to mount a set of the 200cc Darts on the engine while it had the Howards 488/510 hyd. flat tappet cam in it. It made the best hp between the two but only by 6hp over the PC heads. The dart heads would be a waste of money on the level of street rod we were testing. They may prevail in a much more serious buildup. The Procomp heads are positively the best value by far.
We are puzzled as to why the two different brands of heads ran so close to one another in hp numbers, considering they are very different in flow characteristics. As our company founder explains it, the results of these heads will vary greatly by what type setup you are running. Our test engine is not a good way to determine the true overall value of a cylinder head, but our test engine is representative as to what most street rodders are running. This would be a small block 350 or 383 in the 9.8:1 to 10.8:1 compression range, give or take, being able to run on pump gas, with good street manners, must have a somewhat lopey idle, and most importantly that the engine is not setup in a way that it is short lived or unreliable, while still making around 400+hp. Last but not least, a build up that is not going to cost a fortune. We are sure that the Dart Platinum Pro 1 heads would out perform any of the heads we tested in more serious buildup, and they are of very good quality, but the cost on them is two and half times over our PC heads. The PC heads with the 210cc runners seem to be the best choice for the money without any sacrifice of power worth mentioning when running setups such as mentioned above. The Procomp heads do thrive on a good size street rod cam. The 210cc runners would most likely run very well with cams up to .580 range or more. Even though the PC heads are not flowing on the exhaust side as well as we would like, using the right cam more than compensates for this. We think PC heads are the best value for the money you can possibly find. Our dyno testing has proven that when building a 350 engine in the 400hp range, the PC heads are up there with the best. We are also certain that the PC-210 heads are an even better matchup for the 383 buildups.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 366
Likes: 0
Well a tire blew on the highway and I hit the guide rail. It destroyed my quarter panel behind the passenger side. Ripped it off. And got the bumper on the corners. Also ripped off the passenger side mirror. Thats all I could see. I got it towed to the best auto shop and have full coverage through hagerty. Ill let you guys know if Its a total loss or if they fix it 
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 81,241
Likes: 3,063
From: altered state
St. Jude Donor '05
Sorry to hear matt damn.
Im not even going to get into the debate on the headsall I can say is youll get what you pay for. report back after 5-10000 mi.
I knew who that was copy and pasted from after the first 3 lines
Well aware of the history and development of those heads from way way back.
Im not even going to get into the debate on the headsall I can say is youll get what you pay for. report back after 5-10000 mi.
I knew who that was copy and pasted from after the first 3 lines
Well aware of the history and development of those heads from way way back.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,276
Likes: 337
From: "ɹǝpunuʍop", Adelaide, South Australia
sorry to hear about the damage 
that was the first performace upgrade i did to my 72 when i got it,,
replaced the 20yr old + tires
they had perfect tread, hardly worn, but had sidewall cracks developing
been keeping an eye on this thread for info when i get around to my rebuild
that was the first performace upgrade i did to my 72 when i got it,,
replaced the 20yr old + tires
they had perfect tread, hardly worn, but had sidewall cracks developing
been keeping an eye on this thread for info when i get around to my rebuild
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 366
Likes: 0
I dont want to debate if I deserved it or not. Im sure there is a thousand upgrades that could have prevented it. That was the scariest **** ever and for spinning around once and hitting a guard rail. Im happy im not hurt for a no safety feature car. I just wanna know. Do you guys think the panels can be replaced? Like can a shop buy one? Or is It totaled.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 366
Likes: 0
Also I had ss brake lines done and new brakes and engine is still stock. I was going 60 too. In a 60. So there was no going fast stupid stuff. It just blew and boom the car hooked left. I tried to correct it but no luck.