C3 Tech/Performance V8 Technical Info, Internal Engine, External Engine, Basic Tech and Maintenance for the C3 Corvette
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Old Jul 12, 2016 | 09:10 AM
  #41  
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I had a triangle foam filter and it caught fire from a backfire. Luckily, I had the bonnet open at the time and I quickly smothered it...........then it went in the gash bin.

My 355, M21, 3.55 rear has about 10.5:1 cr, a Howard's retro HR 280/286 with .560" lift, 650 DP, AFR 195's, 14x4" K&N on top of a Team G SP intake. As others have noted, not much pull below 3500 but hang on above that. Still pulling strong to 6200 rev limit.

My engine likes an initial timing of 22*/10* mech'l and all in at 3000. Idles smooth at 1000 rpm, 15" vacuum, no obnoxious gas smells and plugs are clean.
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Old Jul 12, 2016 | 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by c3_dk
Duration @ 0.050": 218° / 224°
Borg T-10 Rebuilt Original 4-speed transmission with 3:55 differential; New Spec Stage II Clutch

http://www.compcams.com/v002/Pages/395/XR270HR-10.aspx

I'm completely at a loss, the cam isn't huge, the transmission is a manual and the gears are right for the cam. When you get on it from a dead stop do you drop the clutch? If so how many rpms? Dropping the clutch is a duel edged sword as its how you get your seat pinning launch, but can damage components after the fly wheel. What did the final compression come out to? To low if compression and you lose lowend and power. Have you taken it to the strip? What kind and size of rear spring do you run in the rear? The softer the spring the the more she'll squat the less it will spin. What size tires you run on the rear? Going from 255's to 275's made my lowend less fun, i swapped rear gear and got it back which was the hole reason I went larger tires. The tune is a big thing as well. What springs are running in the mechanical advance, i found on both engines I did for the vette the lightest springs worked best, i don't know with your engine but on my 400" with afr 195s 32* is were it liked the timing. What intake do you run? When we dynoed the L48 I found 16 horse in just getting the air fuel in the range the engine wanted which if I recall was a 12.6. An air fuel meter is an awesome way to dial in the carb and aren't super expensive. Another way is to use the mph at the drag strip, once you've gotten the best mph by changing the jets you'll have it jetted to were the engine responds the best. Everyone else has said this but the engine will run best when it is broke in. Find a long steep hill put the car in first gear at the top and let it compression brake down the hill, first might be a bit low with your manual and if so use 2nd or 3rd. Do this several times, it will help seat the rings. What do the plugs look like, are they clean and white or black and sooty?

Last edited by bluedawg; Jul 12, 2016 at 01:43 PM.
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Old Jul 12, 2016 | 05:51 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by bluedawg
I'm completely at a loss, the cam isn't huge, the transmission is a manual and the gears are right for the cam. When you get on it from a dead stop do you drop the clutch? If so how many rpms? Dropping the clutch is a duel edged sword as its how you get your seat pinning launch, but can damage components after the fly wheel. What did the final compression come out to? To low if compression and you lose lowend and power. Have you taken it to the strip? What kind and size of rear spring do you run in the rear? The softer the spring the the more she'll squat the less it will spin. What size tires you run on the rear? Going from 255's to 275's made my lowend less fun, i swapped rear gear and got it back which was the hole reason I went larger tires. The tune is a big thing as well. What springs are running in the mechanical advance, i found on both engines I did for the vette the lightest springs worked best, i don't know with your engine but on my 400" with afr 195s 32* is were it liked the timing. What intake do you run? When we dynoed the L48 I found 16 horse in just getting the air fuel in the range the engine wanted which if I recall was a 12.6. An air fuel meter is an awesome way to dial in the carb and aren't super expensive. Another way is to use the mph at the drag strip, once you've gotten the best mph by changing the jets you'll have it jetted to were the engine responds the best. Everyone else has said this but the engine will run best when it is broke in. Find a long steep hill put the car in first gear at the top and let it compression brake down the hill, first might be a bit low with your manual and if so use 2nd or 3rd. Do this several times, it will help seat the rings. What do the plugs look like, are they clean and white or black and sooty?
Thanks for the interest.

No, I have not dropped the clutch but I do get on it the gas once engaged. Final compression is close to 10:1 with good quench. Rear spring is a VBP 330. Rear and front tire are 255/60/R15.

Once I get the oil change and a few minor things straightened out, now that I am at 500 miles on it, I will get it out and really slam it to see what happens...and to seat in the rings as many have suggested. Based on the performance from idle to 3500 RPM, I do expect to see it take off from 3500-5000. It has instant throttle response, and accelerates without any hesitation.

Based on all the comments so far, I think I just need my own perception recalibrated to understand that a 350 needs RPM, even though I thought I did everything I could to get the torque at low RPMS versus HP at high RPM.....but what maybe I need to understand is there is no replacement for displacement when it comes to low end torque.
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Old Jul 12, 2016 | 06:35 PM
  #44  
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You should not have waited 500 miles to break the rings in... That is Job 1 the instant you can drive the car. If you change oil DO NOT USE synthetic ... Not this change .. I would take her out on the current oil and run her up to 5800 in first and let it coast down, run it up a hill in a high gear pulling the motor down making it struggle and i would also do a wot pulls. Run her , make her work , make her give all her power ... Then change the oil .

And that hat cam and heads are not much more then the base 355hp ZZ4 motor so its a good set up but not super powerful // Should easily put a L48 to shame though
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Old Jul 12, 2016 | 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by diehrd
You should not have waited 500 miles to break the rings in... That is Job 1 the instant you can drive the car. If you change oil DO NOT USE synthetic ... Not this change .. I would take her out on the current oil and run her up to 5800 in first and let it coast down, run it up a hill in a high gear pulling the motor down making it struggle and i would also do a wot pulls. Run her , make her work , make her give all her power ... Then change the oil .

And that hat cam and heads are not much more then the base 355hp ZZ4 motor so its a good set up but not super powerful // Should easily put a L48 to shame though
Wow, I thought AFR heads were supposed to be the best, so comparing them to ZZ4 heads seems like a slam on AFR. I know people like vortec heads, but comparing them to AFR 180 heads really goes against the never ending claim that AFR leads the pack.....as for the cam, I knew it was on more mild side, but was under the understanding that this cam would provide better low end torque.
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Old Jul 12, 2016 | 08:19 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by iwasmenowhesgone
Wow, I thought AFR heads were supposed to be the best, so comparing them to ZZ4 heads seems like a slam on AFR. I know people like vortec heads, but comparing them to AFR 180 heads really goes against the never ending claim that AFR leads the pack.....as for the cam, I knew it was on more mild side, but was under the understanding that this cam would provide better low end torque.
210 Fast burn is slightly better then an AFR 180 . And torque is most likely under 400 ft pounds. Still a lot more then the stock L48 by far
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Old Jul 12, 2016 | 08:29 PM
  #47  
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What are your timing specs? You probably want 16* or more initial.
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Old Jul 12, 2016 | 08:53 PM
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Thos 180s blow away the ZZ4 or L98 heads cam better too by leaps
Spend some time with it
Didnt re read what your dist curve it but taking it to someone with a Sun Machine made it feel like it picked up 50hp easy. Nothing in the MSD pkg worked worth a darn. Keep at it!
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Old Jul 12, 2016 | 09:05 PM
  #49  
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Below is from my ZZ454. Yes, a different engine but the procedure is good for a roller cam engine. You need to start at step 8. Pay attention to the last part of step 8 & 9. Accelerate and then back off, leave it in gear so you get some back pressure on the rings.

The engine should be driven at varying loads and conditions for the first 30 miles or one hour without wide open throttle (WOT) or sustained high RPM accelerations.
8. Run five or six medium throttle (50%) accelerations to about 4000 RPM and back to idle (0% throttle) in gear.
9. Run two or three hard throttle (WOT 100%) accelerations to about 4000 RPM and back to idle (0% throttle) in gear.
10. Change the oil and filter. Replace motor oil (not synthetic) and a oil filter. Inspect the oil and the oil filter for any foreign particles to ensure that the engine is functioning properly.
11. Drive the next 500 miles under normal conditions or 12 to 15 engine hours. Do not run the engine at its maximum rated engine speed. Also, do not expose the engine to extended periods of high load.
12. Change the oil and filter. Again, inspect the oil and oil filter for any foreign particles to ensure that the engine is functioning properly.


Then you should be able to run synthetic oil. BTW that distributor you have is very good. Love mine.
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Old Jul 12, 2016 | 09:19 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by JimLentz
Bats,

I don't like any of the filters with foam. I have seen a backfire start them on fire.
I have heard that but never seen in in 30 plus years so I am not too concerned,

So if I used oil soaked gauze like a K&N or stock paper it wont ever catch on fire?
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Old Jul 12, 2016 | 10:03 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by JimLentz
Bats,

I don't like any of the filters with foam. I have seen a backfire start them on fire.


Had one on my 67 Camaro and it did just that.
With a fiberglass hood I would be concerned.
Just like the glass see-thru fuel filters.

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Old Jul 12, 2016 | 10:18 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by bmans vette


Had one on my 67 Camaro and it did just that.
With a fiberglass hood I would be concerned.
Just like the glass see-thru fuel filters.

Like i said i have heard of it never seen it first hand, yet I have seen a lot of paper filter catch fire, never seen a kn on fire

so the filter you use is fire proof?

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Old Jul 12, 2016 | 11:30 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by cuisinartvette
Thos 180s blow away the ZZ4 or L98 heads cam better too by leaps
Spend some time with it
Didnt re read what your dist curve it but taking it to someone with a Sun Machine made it feel like it picked up 50hp easy. Nothing in the MSD pkg worked worth a darn. Keep at it!
Times 2.
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Old Jul 13, 2016 | 01:29 AM
  #54  
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First off, you've received some good advice. Your build sheet contains the right "stuff". Also, keep in mind the cam you've chosen won't even begin to come alive until well after your peak RPM thus far. That cam peaks it's hp at around 5250-5500 rpm, and stays alive well after that. Torque falls off by then, but your still making hp.

I'm thinking once she's dialed in, your gonna have a smile. If not, you can always do something like this....


Last edited by Patro46; Jul 13, 2016 at 01:30 AM.
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Old Jul 13, 2016 | 06:51 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by The13Bats
I have heard that but never seen in in 30 plus years so I am not too concerned,

So if I used oil soaked gauze like a K&N or stock paper it wont ever catch on fire?
Do apples taste like oranges? Foam will burn extremely easy and quickly. But hey, it's your car.
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Old Jul 13, 2016 | 07:14 AM
  #56  
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am I the only one who thinks that is a pretty mild cam?

also I have personally burned up the foam on the edelbrock triangle filters twice! not pretty when that happens...
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Old Jul 13, 2016 | 07:37 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by gungatim
am I the only one who thinks that is a pretty mild cam?

also I have personally burned up the foam on the edelbrock triangle filters twice! not pretty when that happens...
OP wants low end torque since he obviously keeps the rpm down in the normal driving range. Thats what throws you back in the seat...
I think this cam is a perfect choice for this along with his 3.55 gears. Bigger cams would shift everything up in the rpm range being an even worse fit... Everythings a compromise. The reason car and driver chose the l48 over the l82 in preference was they stated the l48 had more low end torque which made it more fun on the street from stop light to stop light. (This was also the reason GM focused on TPI and even crossfire to tune them for torque.) People are often disappointed with high hp builds because they learn they have to wind them up higher to get that same torque in many cases. Still in this case the power curve should have been better all across the board I would think.

Last edited by augiedoggy; Jul 13, 2016 at 07:45 AM.
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Old Jul 13, 2016 | 08:08 AM
  #58  
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All good comments about the 3,500 RPM limit....you are using.

My 78 L-82 355 with AFR 180 heads, 10.2:1 compression, and Howards Roller cam (.525/.525 lift, duration 219/225, LSA110) pulls VERY hard AFTER 3,500 rpm to 6,000 RPM but has good bottom end, not BB torque but MUCH better than the stock L-82.
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Old Jul 13, 2016 | 08:35 AM
  #59  
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I really don't think you can even begin to judge the motors performance until you get the rpms up where it wants to be. I haven't driven a strip/street car with anything less than a 4000+ stall converter in nearly 20 years so idk what 3500 rpms feels like Lol-I know you have a manual trans but you get what I'm saying.
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Old Jul 13, 2016 | 09:55 AM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by cuisinartvette
Thos 180s blow away the ZZ4 or L98 heads cam better too by leaps
Spend some time with it
Didnt re read what your dist curve it but taking it to someone with a Sun Machine made it feel like it picked up 50hp easy. Nothing in the MSD pkg worked worth a darn. Keep at it!
I SAID FAST BURN HEADS READ BEFORE YOUR MOUTH gets ahead of you ..
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