We were talking about the cheap foam open top filter. It actually had 2 filter sections and when it caught on fire it burned for a while. Long enough to ignite a fiberglass hood.
I have never seen a paper ring filter catch fire. Also the shape of the foam top filter allows it to burn straight up. A paper filter in a ring formation is probably going to smolder as it burns on its sides.
Having said all that...I have a KN style filter planned for my vette project.

But I think we are getting off track of the OP's thread......apologies to him.

Bman

 

I'm on an almost identical build as your specs and I've decided to go with 1 1/2 inch primary headers after reading/watching these.
It looks to me like a small primary will give more torque at lower RPMs with only very slight loss of top end.


https://www.sandersonheaders.com/let...technical.html

http://www.wallaceracing.com/header_length.php

 

I've not ran the fast burns, but think that the 180 eliminator are better heads just due to the runner size, in most dynoed combos I find between the two the 180s seem to perform the same if not better with a smaller port, i know that gm restricted the port with a tiny valve on attempts to keep the velocity up. Don't know why you get all pissy with Cuisinart about this he was stating his opinion.

 

His opinion instructed me to go spend time with his answer .. Ya let me be nice to someone dead wrong telling me how dumb i am .. Sure i will be nice .. SMH

And like him you are also wrong a 210 Fast burn slightly out does an AFR 195 .. The AFR180 is not in the same boat as a fast burn .

I wonder how these aftermarket head makers got the fast burn chamber to begin with hmmmmm Wait GM did that for them LMAO ..

GMPP Fast Burn AFR 195
0.100" 62 No Data
0.200" 136 132
0.300" 187 198
0.400" 232 250
0.500" 266 260
0.600" 275 262

 

Did you ever notice how some people just hate it when a product becomes known as the best and these people just can't stand joining the majority, and stick with some brand or model that is NOT that popular, and try to force the issue that everyone else is wrong, misled and naive. A few examples:

AFR cylinder heads
Dewitts Radiators
Harley Davidson motorcycles.

While obviously other people can make good products, and there are many products that can perform well.......AFR heads and Dewitts radiators and Harleys don't outsell all the others and / or are widely considered the best for no reason. Don't even want to start the Vortec head debate that goes on...!

 

I want to thank all of the folks on this thread that have helped me feel more comfortable about the time and dollars I put into this engine build. I tried to have an unbiased viewpoint, and most importantly try to build the engine that fits my needs for this car, and my driving style. It is quite a challenge weeding through the many opinions and theories that you can read on this and other forums. Trying to avoid the "race-boy" mentality that occurs when white American males starting talking about horsepower is something that takes focus!

I will soon be getting it out there and getting those rings broke in, and seeing what happens above 3500 RPM. And I want to get it on a dyno, and get it tuned to its real potential.

 

I can't speak for Harleys of AFR heads but we all know that on "this" forum the only radiator that will cool a car or is not a total pos is the dewitts it doesn't matter how many people use other brands and say they cool just fine they are wrong.

It's that type thinking that is right akin with me saying I will use a "foam" element filter and several people get all up in arms that is will catch on fire, they do not ask "what" type foam I am using they just run with things they have heard or seen once, people especially on forums like for others to follow their lead and do it their way....nothing wrong with that it's human.


What I have seen ignored for over 30 years what my father rip tried to beat home to me is if a person builds their engine honest to how they will use it which might not be an engine that needs high rpm to make any power they will be far happier,
Makes me think of eddy and his 81 he had a overbuilt 383 didn't come on until way after 4K and I would hear him coming through the neighbor with the car down in first gear ( auto ) trying to get the rpms up just to move, but it sounded cool...
I listened to dad who had his racer buddy build my 383 but that builder didn't listen to dad and made a high rpm engine I hated,
I had a heck of a lot of money and you know how cheap I am into that thing, then the time and issues it caused with dad,
But in the end I got lucky swapped in that 454 in a swap, did I loose money? you bet , did I get an engine I am thrilled with? you bet
My point is while I believe you will like your engine just fine when it breaks in and is all dialed in so what if you don't like it, swap in what you do like, some cat will want your engine, it's no big deal...then you can move on to something you like better if it comes to that.

 

Well, I believe your build will run strong and fast..and last well..Keep us posted.Few of us have the dedication to even attempt such a task..and I think you made good thoughtful choices and implemented the plan very well.
Be patient with yourself..quit second guessing and break 'er in properly and you'll Not be DISAPPOINTED..Best regards, Jim

 

my Dad said something to me when I was 16 and was putting some air cleaner on my 66 289 mustang that has stuck with me until this day, although I didnt figure it out until years later...

Im putting on this cool looking fuel injection looking air cleaner, he says " that gonna make it go faster?" I give him the 16 year old know it all attitude and say "nooooo".

Im thinking what a dumb question. Had to be years later that I figured out what he meant. Man, I am the dummy. Now when I do engine work/ mods its for the performance I desire, not because it looks cool. Onto your engine

The internet is full of other peoples opinions, most of which are from bozos that know everything. You are on the right track to take it out, ride it through the power band and see if you like what YOU'VE built. Only you can please you. Who gives a crap about what others opinions of what you should be building or using.

Small blocks are mid to upper rpm monsters but remember you are looking for torque. Head snap is torque. Gear a lawn mower low enough and it will snap your neck. Tractors have 40 hp but will drag your house down the street. If you like your motors throttle response, and its fun in the higher rpms, then you can always change your rear end to give you all the wheel spin you want. I guarantee you your car has more horse than mine currently but mine is snappy because im geared lower.

Have fun at 5000 rpm. Get some pics and post em. I love getting up there, its really really fun.

Good luck. Wish I had your motor!!!!!

 

Flow numbers as well as dyno numbers are just numbers, but the fast burn 385 versus the 350 on afr's Web site uses similar cams, the afr 350 makes 420 horse and the fast burn 385 makes well 385 horse, the afr has a slightly bigger flat tapper cam and the fast burn a slightly smaller hydraulic roller. So even if the fast burn out doest the 180cc eliminator it isn't by much, price yea the fast burn is cheaper and I'll admit that I was iritated when I responded, but Cuisinart is a good dude and there is no reason to get pissy with the man. I personally would buy afr's if the budget afforded and if not probably profiler. They have a 210 cc runner with 1.94" intake valve, sure the valve adds some velocity, but you want the entire runner including the intake to decrease in size all the way up to the valve to add to the ram air. My opinion is just that and if your heart so desires to buy fast burns then buy them, but don't get pissy and treat other members like s4!t on you opinion. Flow numbers only tell part of the story...

 

You put together an engine that once broke in and ran at optimum will perform well, sure you didn't copy some one else's build have some engine builder put it together and bitch about it later, youve came forward and stated that at the rpm youve ran it to its not brought about what you were expecting. you put a lot of time, Research and money into this build and once tuned it will perform how you wanted it to. With a clutch drop compirable to the equivelnt 3k rpm stall, it will boil the tires and I'm willing to bet the midst and uppers are there, you just need to get into them.

 

Deleted due to repost.

 

Yea funny huh. It's not even that, it's the smart asssed coment to another forum member for an opinion.

 

Back on track, with most engines there is a trade of ecspecially with naturally aspirated small blocks. The division line is in rpm and low end torque versus horse power. With a well built high torque small block under the 400" mark, typically to have tons of low end dump truck torque you trade off horsepower, as you go up in horse power the rpm that peak torque is raised and as it's raised you have less torque at off idle low rpm. Horse power being a division of torque and rpm, the higher the horse power one or other ie. Torque or rpm has to go up. We're the exceptions lye here are added stroke or cubic inch. With the added stroke you add more leverage to the crank which brings back the torque at lower rpms, which is why it's both easier to reach not only higher peak horse power numbers but higher torque numbers at a lower rpm as well, engines like motor heads, Pauldanas and diehards probably make 500 ft/lbs at 2500 horse due to the added stroke of the 427" sbc. What motor head was referring to is that high horse small cubic inch small blocks usually make peak power at higher rpms like 7000, 7500 excetra. The engine you built is in the mid range being that it has a decent low end torque and peak hp at a lower rpm for all around use.

 

Get the water temp up to 190f and STOP BABYING IT!

Go find a package of piston rings and read the instructions while you are at it.

Once it's up to temp and has good oil pressure, it's hammer time. If you are scared to beat on it, then find someone that will. I'm always ready for a high performance drive.

 

A really long time ago I compared a lot of air filters for flow and dirt stopping capability. I've considered updating the test maybe using my lowly 78 as the test mule.

Anyway K&N might flow a bit more air but it does so by trapping less dirt. A K&N has much less filtration area and volume than a paper filter. OEMs ditched oil bath filtration in the early 60s. Would you go back to a DC generator? Are you and the advertising execs at K&N smarter than all the registered professional automotive engineers?

I won't run a K&N or a cheap paper filter. High quality paper is the way to go. I sure wouldn't run an oil bath filter on a new engine.

The more power and flow claims are about as substantiated as Slick 50 and all the miracle additives too. Don't waste your hard earned dollars on snake oils.

I also won't use cheap oil filters with crappy anti drain back valves or cheap oils. It's not worth it in the long run.

And lastly I never reuse head, main or connecting rod bolts. That's just asking for expensive problems too.

I've learned most of this the hard and $$$ way.

The highest power engines ever made run on paper filters. Does your engine outperform the C7 Z06 power plant? Are GMs engineers blithering idiots? If you need more flow get a bigger filter! More area and volume is the solution. Oiled cotton gauze is not.

 

195cc Street Head Flow Chart
.200 .300 .400 .500 .550
Int 146 201 247 275 280

Dont know were you got the flow numbers you posted, but these are the actual flow numbers for afr 195cc eliminator street head (non comp port) from the air flow research Web site, makes me question the numbers for the fast burns. So actually the numbers even say what I said. There dyno numbers on the 180cc tell me that they are a better head as well, don't really mean to skirmish over this but you really shouldn't treat other forum members like that, it's not nice. So your dead wrong and if you really wanted to compare apples to apples, you need to compare them to the afr 210cc:

210cc Street Head Flow Chart
.200 .300 .400 .500 .550 .600 .650
Int 145 199 255 292 301 309 311
Exh 110 158 192 210 214 220 222

But the op has 180cc and yes the flow numbers you posted are higher than the 180cc head, but a) the velocity on the 180s will be higher adding the ram effect and b) the dyno results I've seen indicate this. Let's not argue and fight about stupid things and lets treat our fellow forum members with respect, we might actually be able to help other members this way. Peace?

 

Perhaps I am reading you wrong or you misunderstood my reply you quoted,
A cat on this thread said he flipped from a paper filter to K&N and it flowed and ran better and I asked more about that, he went on to say he also used that special top K&N makes that is a filter so admittedly his comparison wasn't apples to apples, I was asking for more info as like I said there is a thread or two on here that bash the K&N as you just did,
But I couldn't car less about the K&N, like I got flamed for ( pun intended ) I am running that old school fly eye filter that everyone hates....

On a side note to be perfectly honest the fly eye is one of several old school weird silly air cleaners I have collected and rotate use on the car, I am not trying to get every 10th on the 1320...

 

We had one of those triangle foam edelbrock filters on my son's first chevelle, it worked great, not for sure how well that foam flowed, but it worked great, i could see if it caught fire it turning into napalm, but if you tune it accordingly it shouldn't. I rum a 5" k and n with their extreme flow lid, does it make a difference, couldn't tell you as I havn't done a before and after dyno, the intake noise is a little loader, so I can only assume that it does, but I plan on a refresh at about 30k depending on compression/leak down testing, it's a hot rod engine and I really don't expect to get 100 out of her. Might go with longer stroke at that time. Run what you bung. ..hahaha.

 

I really doubt the foam flows very well,

In over 30 years of putzing with vehicles while I have seen more flames popping outta carbs than I care to recall, I have only had one personal carb fire and it was on my 69 after self appointed expert eddy tuned my pos holley and on a cruise with tina it mt st helen'ed,
I opened the hood and flames are pouring, scared the hell outta tina, I just clammily ask for the extinguisher put it right out no damage.

One other time, mike pulls up in a zr bug a c4 body on a vw pan the rear is in tall flames in my driveway I am yelling you are on fire he thinks I'm kidding and I hit that with a small extinguisher and it was good besides ruining his rear deck lid,

seems kn filters are 1/2 love them 1/2 hate them...