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A Borgeson question I've not seen asked

 
Old 01-04-2019, 08:39 PM
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ZAKsPop
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Default A Borgeson question I've not seen asked

Just WTF is a Borgeson conversion and why would I want one? I know it is a replacement for the steering but how is it better?
Thanks
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Old 01-04-2019, 08:42 PM
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Vette5311
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Not sure this is all of it but I think it is a P/S box conversion that eliminates the linkage assist and is all internal.
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Old 01-04-2019, 08:55 PM
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lars
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That's correct. The Borgeson Power Steering conversion is a "true" power steering system, similar in design to that used on GM passenger cars in the late 60's and 70's, whereas the factory C2/C3 Vette systems are "power assisted" steering similar to that used on the early Mustangs. The Borgeson system also has a quicker ratio steering box (12.7:1) giving the car a quicker steering "feel."

Lars

Last edited by lars; 01-04-2019 at 08:56 PM.
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Old 01-04-2019, 08:56 PM
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'75
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Has a better ratio, less turns of the wheel stop to stop. Less potential for leaks due to fewer hoses and moving parts. A few don't like it and think the C3 is perfect as designed by GM, others not so much.
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Old 01-04-2019, 09:34 PM
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69ttop502
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The only thing I donít really like about it is the need to collapse the steering shaft. Something doesnít sit right with me about it. I love the feel of stock manual steering with a well rebuilt box. Mike Dyer rebuilt my box using new Borgeson internals.

Last edited by 69ttop502; 01-04-2019 at 09:35 PM.
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Old 01-04-2019, 09:48 PM
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lars
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Jim Shea, who was on the design team for the design of the Vette steering column, also has a real problem with any alterations to the column as required by the Borgeson conversion. A lot of safety design concerns were engineered into both the column and the flex coupling at the box. (I just sent him an e-mail requesting his comment/opinion on this).

Lars

Last edited by lars; 01-04-2019 at 09:52 PM.
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Old 01-04-2019, 09:55 PM
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ignatz
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When I collapsed my steering column on my unmolested 69 to install the Borgeson, it just collapsed with no resistance. So ... BFD.
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Old 01-04-2019, 09:59 PM
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69ttop502
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I guess to each his own. I will be interested to hear what Mr. Shea has to say about it.
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Old 01-05-2019, 12:38 AM
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C3DeedlyDee
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Is there a gearset you can get for the stock steering box to get the same steering ratio as a borgeson? My headers are already close to kissing the stock box, so I don't think a borgeson will fit, but I got to drive an Audi TT RS at an auto-x event and I loved how quick the steering was.

Last edited by C3DeedlyDee; 01-05-2019 at 02:12 AM.
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Old 01-05-2019, 01:57 AM
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Shark Racer
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Originally Posted by lars View Post

Jim Shea, who was on the design team for the design of the Vette steering column, also has a real problem with any alterations to the column as required by the Borgeson conversion. A lot of safety design concerns were engineered into both the column and the flex coupling at the box. (I just sent him an e-mail requesting his comment/opinion on this).

Lars
He's posted on the forum on the subject and has helped people out with this subject. I had trouble locking down a singular post, but here's a snippet from one:

Originally Posted by Jim Shea
I personally think that the Borgeson steering gear is a great product. I have recommended it at times myself. As mentioned above, if Borgeson is indeed a supporting vendor, I apologize. If not a supporting vendor, I would appreciate your thoughts on the subject.
Here's a thread where he discusses the intricacies of working with a 67-68 tilt column: https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...le-column.html

There are also numerous threads where he highlights the significance of a proper shoulder bolt for the u-joint, as well as points out that we should be using the original P/N for power steering fluid for worm gear cars as opposed to the stuff that gets cycled through rack&pinion systems.
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Old 01-05-2019, 02:01 AM
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naramlee
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Originally Posted by C3DeedlyDee View Post
Is there a gearset you can get for the stock steering box to get the same steering ratio as a borgeson? My headers are already close to kissing the stock box, so I don't think a borgeson will fit, but I got to drive an Audi TT RS as an auto-x event and I loved how quick the steering was.
I have Hooker Super Comp headers, side exhaust, they were VERY close to touching the factory box before I replaced mine, afterwards I gained maybe a 1/8 of an inch... it looks like it wont fit, but once you lock it down... it fits very well

my only complaint was the two foot return hose they give you... that's bupkis… you need three minimum
wait... and they don't coat or oxidize the ragjoint metal, it's bare steel, so it rusts within days... found that out dealing with them on my first box... now I just spray everything with acetone, let it dry, then hit it with a good clearcoat. Keeps everything looking good and the rust is gone.

Last edited by naramlee; 01-05-2019 at 02:03 AM.
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Old 01-05-2019, 10:09 AM
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jb78L-82
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I like the Borgeson system with the the more direct connection to the pitman arm and the 12.7:1 steering ration versus the GM stock ratio of 16:1 but do not like the u joint connection nor the issue concerning the collapsing of the stock steering column.

I chose to go with GTR1999 blueprinting/rebuilding my 60,000 OEM steering box at the time in 2010 when Gray did it. Gary completely rebuilds and hand specs the box which was never done by GM as well as adds a custom olite bushing to the steering shaft that pretty much eliminates any and all play that brand new factory recirculating ball steering boxes had/have from the factory brand new. I still have the slower stereing ration but my box has zero play which it did not have when the car was brand new..........

Last edited by jb78L-82; 01-05-2019 at 10:10 AM.
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Old 01-05-2019, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by 69ttop502 View Post
The only thing I donít really like about it is the need to collapse the steering shaft. Something doesnít sit right with me about it. I love the feel of stock manual steering with a well rebuilt box. Mike Dyer rebuilt my box using new Borgeson internals.

You have borgeson internals in a factory GM steering box? I was not aware that was possibly.........
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Old 01-05-2019, 10:26 AM
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jpattt24
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Originally Posted by 69ttop502 View Post
The only thing I donít really like about it is the need to collapse the steering shaft. Something doesnít sit right with me about it. I love the feel of stock manual steering with a well rebuilt box. Mike Dyer rebuilt my box using new Borgeson internals.
you can take shaft out of the column and cut it. and it will still collapse like factory. I had mine cut 2 1/4 when it was rebuilt and it fit perfect. I went from manual to power borgeson box. and its great.
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Old 01-05-2019, 11:39 AM
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maj75
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I had my factory PS box rebuilt and it works fantastic. Can’t see why anyone would want anything other than a working factory system, but then there are folks who just like to change stuff.
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Old 01-05-2019, 01:48 PM
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Dynra Rockets
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Originally Posted by maj75 View Post
Can’t see why anyone would want anything other than a working factory system, but then there are folks who just like to change stuff.


Because #IamOld.

My 69 came from the factory with manual steering, which was fine when I was 35. Now that I am 20 years older I needed a little help in slow parking lots. The options were to add a factory system, restomod to a R&P, or the Borgeson. I chose the Borgeson.

It was the least expensive option (for new parts, no leaking time bombs for me), easy to install and has a better 12.7:1 ratio. I like it!

Last edited by Dynra Rockets; 01-05-2019 at 01:50 PM.
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Old 01-05-2019, 02:00 PM
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Big2Bird
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Nobody ever considers just how heavy it is compared to stock. If the case was aluminum I'd be in.

I need to drive a car with one, but I would look at R&P if I wanted a change.
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Old 01-05-2019, 02:00 PM
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zwede
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Originally Posted by maj75 View Post
I had my factory PS box rebuilt and it works fantastic. Canít see why anyone would want anything other than a working factory system, but then there are folks who just like to change stuff.
The steering feel is much better with the Borgeson box, even when the factory box has been rebuilt. The stock PS setup, due to the design, will always have some slop on center. With the Borgeson that's pretty much gone and is as close to rack-and-pinion you're gonna get with a recirculating ball box.
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Old 01-05-2019, 02:04 PM
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jb78L-82
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Originally Posted by zwede View Post
The steering feel is much better with the Borgeson box, even when the factory box has been rebuilt. The stock PS setup, due to the design, will always have some slop on center. With the Borgeson that's pretty much gone and is as close to rack-and-pinion you're gonna get with a recirculating ball box.
Have you driven a car with a blueprinted/rebuilt OEM GTR1999 box like I have? I have zero play in the steering (see my previous post) since the box is hand built/hand adjusted, and has a non factory custom oilte shaft bushing that eliminates all on center play.

I have NOT driven a borgeson box either but I am interested mostly in the 12.7:1 ration in that box......
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Old 01-05-2019, 02:28 PM
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One of the best upgrades you can do to the car, IMHO. I've had mine in for 8 years now, zero issues and the steering is tight and responsive and doesn't leak!
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