Hi All,

Was wondering. Need to replace pilot bearing but confused which is the better more reliable: a solid pilot bearing or a roller pilot bearing and why?


Thanks

 

When I swapped a Muncie 4 speed to a TKO 600 the instructions said to use a roller (needle) bearing so that's what I put in. Had no problems with it.

 

Alignment of the trans input shaft to crank centerline is more critical with a needle bearing. Oilite bearings are more forgiving.
When I put the TKO in, I did the bellhousing alignment procedure so the input was perfectly centered for the needle bearing.

 

What are the steps for aligning the trans input shaft? The Youtube videos I've seen just indicate inserting the input shaft to the pilot bearing, nothing on alignment?

Thanks

 

This video explains it. You can find others with a bit more detail but this will give you the basic idea.

 

Many of us use the solid bearing without any issues and many years/miles of life. If you’re doing a basic replacement I wouldn’t overthink it.

 

Thanks going to return the roller bearing for solid brass. Your right was overthinking it.

 

I only use the original type solid bronze bushings. I have had, and have seen, many premature failures of the needle bearings, so I don't use them in anything I build. The bronze bushings last for several hundred thousand miles. Just take care when you install the bronze bushings so you do not distort the ID of the bushing with your installation tool/method: If the ID is compromised, the bushing will "grab" the tranny input shaft, and the tranny will not stop rotating when the clutch is depressed. I always check the "as-installed" ID of the bushing to make sure the clearance to the input shaft is correct (should be .002 - .003"), and hone it if needed.

Lars

 

Premium Bellhousing DOWELS
http://www.robbmcperformance.com/products/dowels.html

and keep the pilot simple ... Bronze

 

I will only install the solid bushings in my shop.... Multiple failures in the roller bearing style bruised my ego years ago and I'll never use another one.

IMHO,

Willcox

 

The bearing is intolerant of any misalignment and is more difficult to remove and replace. Why go there? What does it improve?......nothing.

Bushings only.

 

The instructions with my roller bearing specified that it be pressed in with the crank vertical. Yes that means before the engine is assembled. Ignoring the useless instructions I carefully tapped it in with Engine in the car. Somewhere around the 3rd or 4th tap I realized that I had thrashed the bearing. Spent more time extracting its carcass. Bronze one has been working just fine. Keep in mind the only time the bearing does anything is when the clutch is depressed.

 

Hmmm... I replaced my clutch recently, it had done a bit over 40,000 miles (hard miles though). The bushing (which went in with the clutch being replaced, was a newly rebuilt engine at that time with new tko600) was worn and sloppy. I had a bearing on the shelf so I installed it, I hope that wasn't a mistake...

 

Every production vehicle made in the last three (four?) decades has been using bearings with great success. The key is that the alignment has to be spot on. Bushings are far more tolerant of misalignment.

Anyway, as long as you performed the alignment procedure properly you should be fine. I wouldn't sweat it.

 

if you are going to spend a lot of time in traffic with your foot on the clutch, the roller is preferable. otherwise it is totally unnecessary.

 

We started using the roller bearings back in the '70's when someone discovered that the roller bearing from a GM diesel would fit. Must be better, right? They were used for many years without problems when the bearings were available from the General. Now what is available is mostly cheap crap and guys are experiencing failures. The bushings work fine.

 

Which is better, a roller cam or flat tappet? Roller rockers or plain rockers? Good reasons for using roller bearings which are better than plain bearings/bushings. My pilot bearing is a roller. I must have installed it correctly because it hasn't failed. Btw, does GM use pilot roller bearings in their latest generations of engines?

 

Admittedly I didn't bother rechecking the alignment with the clutch swap, figured it shouldn't have moved, but I certainly checked it on initial install. I've done ~2000 miles since putting it back together, no problems yet so hopefully I'm good.

Didn't have any trouble carefully driving it in.

 

Funny... you got two old school guys with probably 80 years combined experience saying... .just use the stock bearing.

Lars, no offense meant if you are not that old... but I am.. I got a feeling you've been around as long as me.

Per the prior post they say you have to have the crank shaft in a vertical position to install... Are you kidding me.... Try explaining that to a customer... "oh Mr. Customer, I have to pull the crank to install a bearing in the end of it" How's that gonna fly.

I've had failures just as I describe above in my prior post and yes, roller rockers are superior... But how the heck to I tell a customer that to install this roller pilot bearing "I'll have to pull the crank to install"... I've not had any issues installing the factory style brass (oylite) bushings but I've had my two shakes with the roller bearings that cost me a ton of money to repair.

While some may have had good luck with the rollers... I'd suggest you search this forum in the archives for picture proof of the failures in the roller bearings... At one time I was all set on pushing this roller bearing.. 14061685 was the GM power number that failed for us twice and I have no reason to ever go back there again. I have zero failures in the OEM bushings....

I'll humbly step away from the table on this one and post my "in my humble opinion" IMHO.

Ernie

 

I don't think anyone is refuting your viewpoint, I just wish I'd read it a few weeks earlier! In truth, maybe I had read it previously (and since forgotten), maybe that's why I had originally installed the bush and left the bearing sitting on the shelf...