Ha Ha Ha....
So, you are home recovering from COVID!
My wife and I are right there with you.
We've been down with it for the past week and finally getting back on our feet.
We were supposed to enjoying a nice week of hiking in Gray Eagle, Lakes Basin, north of Truckee CA.
Had to cancel our trip.
Get healthy.

 

Yeah....Happy 4th.....sitting on my front porch in shorts, feeling sick, and writing stories on the Forum!! I think last year on this date I was at our family picnic with the Corvette, and letting my uncle and cousins drive the car. When I was a teenager, they all owned lots of Chevelles, GTO's, 442's, and Corvettes...... was where the dream began. So it was an honor to let my uncle Bob drive my 77.....his admiration for the car I built and how much he liked it was the best stamp of approval I could ever have had. He had hundreds of these cars....really, and he said my car was incredible. That was one year ago today.

I know I rebuilt an incredible car....but him saying proved it.

 

I don't understand why a new dart block needed a over bore the first time. I just set them up for ring seating on a standard bore.

Your shp maximum bore is something like 4.185 and you might be at 4.165 if 408 is your ci

 

Well George...I didn't need them to bore it out to 406 cubic inch the first time. I just wanted it to be a 406. I suppose you are suggesting I should have just left it a 400. It was my choice. .Was that "dumb"? Look George, I didn't plan on rebuilding the engine every year, so wanted the extra displacement, even if it is small.. And should have got lots of mileage out of a 406 bore, like at least 50,000-100,000 miles instead of 8000 miles, leaving another rebore available for next 50,000-100,000 miles. Past that..........I am in the ground and its someone elses problem.. Seemed like a reasonable plan to me. But now after the machine shop / builder mistake I am at 4.165.

I don't have the luxury of years of Corvette and race experience.....instead I spent all that time earning a living at being an airplane mechanic and pilot. So I am learning, the hard way. Or maybe I am just "dumb". The truth is that trying to find solid answers to questions is very difficult. Where does a person go for answers? This forum has been my primary source of information. I don't hang with "local clubs" or "car cruises" cause I don't like them. Too much bullshit and ego....alot like some forums.. I have never been to a drag race in my life. I don't hang out at circle tracks. Outside of my full time job, I stick to myself. I have a full library of the books available on car engines and I read them alot. I read alot of forums, including Speedtalk, Chevelles, HotRods, etc. I also spent 40 years turning wrenches on airplanes, motorcycles and last ten years on these cars. I think I have common sense.

But truth is, to think you can get a consistent answer to ANY subject is a joke. You have people all over the spectrum on any subject. For example.....usually, you, George Gkull perceive everything from a "race car" viewpoint, which is fine, but I don't race...on a track or on the street.. It is very difficult to get "race" oriented people to understand there is a difference. And that difference should equate to different answers to questions. I drive responsibly on the street. I do like to take the curves in a sporty fashion, and I like acceleration as much as anyone. But going 100 mph is irrelevant.....in fact, 80 mph is irrelevant. So it seems to me that when building an engine, selecting cams, intakes, etc......the engine would be built differently. Maybe I am wrong...or just dumb. Does make you wonder why they sell different cams, different intakes, .....if there is only one way to build an engine.!!!

Some people say I spent alot of money on high end parts and don't use them to their potential.....yeah, that is correct, and I know that. But having something built "stronger" and more "powerful" than what you actually utilize means that you can clearly have a solid working machine that will not let you down. It's my money.

I could have just rebuilt the stock 180 HP original 350 that was in the car myself, and now sitting in the garage.....I could have, but I didn't.....a clear conscientious choice. Not a "dumb" decision to want a little more torque / HP in a Corvette, driven on the street. But that does not mean I need a race car engine. So, not only is there a challenge in finding a competent engine builder......you have to deal with what engine to build. All I wanted is a strong engine, something better than the 180 HP that came in the car. Something that made the Corvette move like a Corvette should. I know my driving style, and wanted the engine to best support that.

I looked to this forum for that, but finding answers is a minefield to navigate. You have to carefully make your way through it. Lots of people with agendas and ideas to support their choices. There is never a consistent answer, but what is consistent is alot of bloviating from self proclaimed experts.....and OFTEN times, it comes with insulting remarks and and talking down to the rest of us. I love the one line responses that clearly show they didn't read the thread. They know, or should know, who they are....and learn to be better people, because otherwise they just come off as arrogant ********. The moderators had to step in and remove one offender even in this thread. Oh well....just people living in their own tiny world, and who do NOT listen to, or read what people ask, and come up with a sound recommendation. Maybe they failed reading comprehension in elementary school. Or,....maybe I am just "dumb". Even in this thread, I have been told I asked a dumb question. Check post #9. But was it really?

All I can do is try to sort it out and decide who I am going to trust. Right now, that is Mark Jones. I am hopeful he will build the engine I wanted in the first place.

I will say this forum has provided me with lots of great information,....not sure how I would have built these cars without it. Too bad many of the best posters have left. It also is how I learned about Gary Ramadei, Jody Haag and Mark Jones. That is good.

 

Anyone have any comments on whether I need, or should choose, a stonger than stock bell housing for this car / engine / tranny combination? I honestly don't think I do, given my driving style. Lakewood came out with a stock looking aluminum bell housing that may be slightly stronger than the stock one. It is made of a better aluminum, and claims to be 1/4 inch thick....which t is not clear if this is thicker. I will measure mine later. Does anyone have experience with that new piece? Jody Haag has been suggesting I get a steel Quick Time....but they are like $900. With the Mark Jones 406, it would be a good idea for someone who really pushed the engine hard.....but again. that won't be me.

 

Wow, that's quite a story. Sadly in my experience I have found no "builder" that I trust.
Mark sounds very good to me, I'm pretty sure he is top notch.
In my the past services done by other folks usually disappoint in the end.

When I decided to rebuild my engine I did tons of research and read many books. What made the most sense to me for my goals was primarily what vizzard offered in information. Not everything, some of his info I would consider not useful or not complete. But I'm not sure anybody could offer 100% complete information since there are very different goals for each application.
as you did, I also used this forum to some degree. So many varrying opinions though. Used other forums too.
in the end I had to trust my own judgment tempered with the reading I had done of those that had been there before me.
ultimately the difference was I did my own work. I even spec'd my own cam.
In this way I was able to check and re check everything. But I've always been a DIY guy.. so nothing new really. For a non DIY person you gotta find guys like Mark. That's not always easy.
I also know to use a torque wrench. How ridiculous not to on torque critical components such as heads.
I also know I don't need arp bolts on oil pans or to hold a carb on. So I can economize where I want and spend where needed.
in the end I just had to take what I could use, mix it with my own experience and judgment and proceed carefully.
At heart I'm a DIY guy. Driven there by economics, but found out I like it. Also found out I am the only one who really knows what I want. So to communicate that to someone else and make all the little decisions along the way on a multistage complicated process, would just end up being micromanagement , and too tiring for me and whoever is doing the work.
I hate hearing stories like yours. It only serves to confirm my assessment of the quality of work you'll get from other "builders". Sounds to me that he was an "assembler" and not a good one at that.

 

Thanks alot for your comments. I agree with everything you stated. I initially started to approach this engine problem with the attitude that I would fix it myself. But, I also know that there are things I do not know, and no matter how much reading I do, I still would make mistakes. And frankly......I want the car on the road. I rebuilt this entire car over a 4.5 year period.....took almost everything apart, put it back together. I would call that DIY.. A few things I vended out like trailing arms, steering box, differential, and then bodywork and paint. The first engine I put in the car was a 350 I built starting with a GM ZZ4 shortblock.....assembled myself from there, and ran it till I decide I wanted more power. Ended up I was having lot of oil in the intake tracks....coking on the valves. Speculation of source was that I was getting oil leaks from the center valley area through intake manifold gasket....why? I had used Felpro gaskets....and THEY state you should use no sealants....so I didn't. Experts here stated I should have. That mistake proved I didn't do something right and learned hard way. It also could have been some mismatch between the heads and the intake manifold...again....my ignorance or lack of knowledge. So when I went to build the 406, I thought I would be better off getting someone who is more familiar......but I picked the wrong guy.

But to continue my original thought.....I want an engine in the car that I can run for years. I have rebuilt enough stuff. I love driving the car.....I want a running car. Its killing me to lose this years driving season. I will get my kicks on rebuilding with the 69......which is going to take years. Driving is very important to me, and I am tired of "learning the hard way" which ultimately is keeping me from the best part, and this is driving it.

Lastly.....I have been very busy flying at work, and don't have much extra time. If I try to do everything, I will never have a running car by next spring. It will be a while before Mark Jones is done, its shipped,....and then I have to get it back in the car, everything back together.

 

This looks like a really nice bell housing.
I questioned whether or not I needed the steel Quick Time bell housing as well.
My builder and several others said it wasn’t needed for my driving style and use of the car.
Others said if I ever decided to drag race the car I would need the steel Quick Time, others said I could end up with the clutch coming up through the floor into my legs.
Well I went with the nice aluminum bell housing like this one, saved a ton of money and I haven’t lost any sleep over it.
Just have Mark or someone who has the proper equipment dial it in otherwise you could have issues down the road.

Is Mark building your 383 internally balanced or externally balanced?
My builder built my 496 internally balanced.
Even so, he still checked my balancer, flywheel and clutch assembly for neutral balance.

 

Its a 406,.....actually with the overbore, will be a 408. Anyways, its internal balance, and Mark will be doing his normal detailed balance. He told me yesterday, and I would agree, given the poor work done by the machine shop, that the balance will most likely be off as well. Jody Haag is shipping him the new McCloud 24 lb flywheel I am using.

I have the original aluminum bellhousing off the 77. I am going to measure its thickness and see how it compares to this Lakewood. I really doubt I will spend the money on that Quicktime steel unit.....I think its overkill. Although.....loosing my legs would suck. Hard to fly airplanes without legs. But, seriously, I doubt my engine will ever pass 5500 RPM when I am driving it. What situation would I need that kind of RPM? This is a 406 cubic inch engine in a 3250 lb car.....driven on the streets and roads of Pennsylvania, at rarely over 60 mph.

 

Ooops, sorry I meant 408!
Next, people will start telling you, that driveline safety loops are necessary as well.

 

Impressive and I would definitely call that DIY.

Many things I have yet to do on my 77. It's more a matter of how far in the hole $$$ do I want to be on this car. Cars are mostly a diminishing asset, sometimes you might get your money back, sometimes. So it comes down to what it's worth to me really.

I can relate to that.
If you make $250 an hour flying, that's a pretty penny for rebuilding an engine. Your time is more valuable as you get older.
Then you have to factor in the quality of work, or lack thereof, if done by someone else. There is a balance in there somewhere.

 

New Pro -Mag rockers should be pretty tight and along with "Zero" lash H-Lifters relatively quiet. You H-roller cam springs like AFR are @ 145 pounds seat. Stamped rockers run into cracking problems with higher lift and bigger open pressures.

With higher weight oils h-lifters quiet down and maybe it was your old setup with big springs. Like these modern cars ands 0W-20 weight oil. In the summer hot weather I put in 10W-30 because my audi makes noise

 

i sure hope you are dynoing this.. i cannot wait to see what a torque monster 2-5500rpm design is..
that would be my build with torque in mind..
how much for a go fund me to compare headers and factory manifolds on dyno

 

This doesn't mess with your VVT?

 

I attached below the link to my posting I made in May 2021, back when the engine just went into the car, and when so many problems were yet to come. My optimism is painful, given all that has happened since. Check it out for the pictures at least.

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...6%20SBC,-Reply

I especially have to laugh in frustration now at post #9 when I proudly stated "project is done"...... so wrong.

 

actually it was 5w 30. Only through the hot summer season. I have driven in the southwest when it was over 120F. I ve had tires bubble and separated living in Las Vegas. That's why I use the highest rated tires on every thing I drive

 

One thing that stands out in my mind is how poorly roads were maintained in Pennsylvania. I blew the front tire and bent my rental car rim just outside of Philly on the freeway not far from a toll booth. bad pothole and couldn't avoid it because of traffic.

Tonight I was just keeping up with traffic going home at 80 mph. I drove a few hundred miles yesterday at 90 on the highway/freeway and was getting passed. It's posted at 80. Lucky to not have to think about an up to 60 limit.

I think that roller motors are really quiet when you have a good balance on heat, oil pressure, and oil weight keeping the lifters from bleeding off. A good choice on springs is the Beehive if you have milder lift and durations.

 

The engine will be dyno'd before its shipped back to me, and the results will be posted on this thread.

 

One problem with dynos is that they only measure starting at the point where the motor can take on full throttle. So a higher strung carbureted double pumper might start at 3000 rpm.

The world has changed, and I don't have the time or supply chain to be changing motors frequently. Like my present motor was 11 months to get all new 12 point ARP head studs. Ordering in early 2021.

So I also made changes to my 434 to make it run fine and last a long time. The biggest change was to improve low end TQ by advancing my cam 4 degrees. The motor is still in the first 500 miles and I have been just out cruising. But I can drive it at 1800 rpm in OD without a problem. That is a lot of low end TQ that can't be measured on a dyno run. I did go to wide open throttle without a down shift and it just motors away at an ever increasing rate.

408 with some compression can be a TQer! As to the aluminum bell housing. If you have an SFI rated flywheel, chances are very slim that it will come apart. The only time that I have ever witnessed a catastrophic flywheel/clutch failure was at a drag strip where big pieces came through the lexan windshield. Non SFI

 

Here are the next awesome contributions to my 77 Corvette and this rebuilt 406 that Mark Jones is working on. One of these two freshly built M23Z Autogear 4-speed transmissions, built by Jody's Transmission will go in the 77. The other goes in my 69 Corvette Roadster, which will be equipped with a Mark Jone BBC 468. Both are equipped with 2.99 first gear ratio, polished Italian gears, iron midplates, billet front shaft support....and all the heavy duty parts Autogear includes to make these fully capable of handling all the Mark Jones power. Perfect!!!

Now I just need to decide if I am going to upgrade to a QuickTime steel bellhousing....or maybe the new Lakewood thicker aluminum bellhousing. Its not time to cut corners with all this strength and power in the works.....so probably the QuickTime.