C4 Tech/Performance L98 Corvette and LT1 Corvette Technical Info, Internal Engine, External Engine

89 vette won't start!

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Old Jul 12, 2007 | 05:57 PM
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You're lookiing at a Camaro manual.
A code 53 for a 89 Y body vin 8 (Corvette) is System Over Voltage.

In your video, when the ether was sprayed into the throttle body, the engiine rpm did increase but the engine did not run on its own. The starter was still cranking the engine.

Have you visually verifyed the strenght of the spark by pulling a plug and laying it on the intake manifold while cranking the engine and also is the spark consistent?
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Old Jul 12, 2007 | 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Hooked on Vettes




You're lookiing at a Camaro manual.
A code 53 for a 89 Y body vin 8 (Corvette) is System Over Voltage.

In your video, when the ether was sprayed into the throttle body, the engiine rpm did increase but the engine did not run on its own. The starter was still cranking the engine.

Have you visually verifyed the strenght of the spark by pulling a plug and laying it on the intake manifold while cranking the engine and also is the spark consistent?
Good eye yes, is a camaro book...bought it for a engine swap out project about 10 years ago to an S10 (that thing was fast!). Code may not be the same -- but the problem is.

No, I have not visually checked the strenth of the spark plug arch.
The posted video was not a good example of the ether running the car. I have run the car for as much as 30 sec. after the starter was done cranking the engine.
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Old Jul 12, 2007 | 07:55 PM
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Why not sacrifice a couple of hours and pull the plenum and fuel rail and do a flow test of injectors. Time well spent at this point.
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Old Jul 12, 2007 | 08:51 PM
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I'm starting to suspect a bad Body Control Module (BCM)....anybody know where this thing is located on the car and how to get it out to check for possible water intrusion?
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Old Jul 12, 2007 | 09:04 PM
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No BCM in 89. First year for BCM/CCM in Corvettes was 90.
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Old Jul 12, 2007 | 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Hooked on Vettes


No BCM in 89. First year for BCM/CCM in Corvettes was 90.
What's this then?

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Old Jul 12, 2007 | 09:41 PM
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Don't believe everything you find on the internet.

16146688 is a BCM for a 90 Corvette.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1990-...spagenameZWDVW
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Old Jul 12, 2007 | 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Hooked on Vettes




Don't believe everything you find on the internet.

16146688 is a BCM for a 90 Corvette.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1990-...spagenameZWDVW
Is NAPA wrong too?
[IMG][/IMG]
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Old Jul 12, 2007 | 10:29 PM
  #69  
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Yes NAPA is also wrong.

Last edited by Hooked on Vettes; Jul 12, 2007 at 10:32 PM.
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Old Jul 13, 2007 | 12:31 AM
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You have proven to yourself that it is a fuel delivery problem. Why do you keep looking elsewhere.
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Old Jul 13, 2007 | 09:15 AM
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Hooked on Vettes suggested already to measure the voltage of the TPS, but no feedback on that.
Did you try to start the engine with the TPS unhooked? What I am getting at, possibly a clear flood mode?

Oh, btw, do you get a bad gasoline smell when you crank it like that?

Last edited by woodstock; Jul 13, 2007 at 09:23 AM.
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Old Jul 13, 2007 | 03:02 PM
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Default Tps Test

Originally Posted by woodstock
Hooked on Vettes suggested already to measure the voltage of the TPS, but no feedback on that.
Did you try to start the engine with the TPS unhooked? What I am getting at, possibly a clear flood mode?

Oh, btw, do you get a bad gasoline smell when you crank it like that?
Engine is not running on gas only ether.... I'm not sure how ether is supposed to smell when it burns.... I don't smell anything unusal if that helps.

Also I did check the TPS senor the other day - just didn't reply - my bad. The sensor tested OK. I went back and checked again today and photographed it so that others can see what's going on or see how to test their own. I'm using A TPS test harness from Mid America p/n 17788 for this test. You don't need this tester - it just makes the test a little easier!

Picture #1 is of the TPS voltage with sensor in the closed throttle position. (Key must be in the "ON" position - engine is not running...measure across (probe) leads "A" & "B" with volt meter) If good reading should be between .450 and .615 at closed throttle and 5 volts @ W.O.T.

Picture #2 is of the TPS ohm reading with the sensor in the closed throttle position. (Sensor is unpluged measuring across (probe) pins "A" & "B" with ohm meter)

Picture #3 is of the TPS ohm reading with the sensor in the open throttle position. (Sensor is unpluged measuring across (probe) pins "A" & "B" with ohm meter)

Picture #1
[IMG][/IMG]

Picture #2


Picture #3
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Old Jul 13, 2007 | 04:08 PM
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So I'm following up on possibility of a VATS problem. Today I removed the computer from the harness and probed pin B6 (dark blue wire for circut 229) getting this for voltage from the VATS Modulator instead of +5V. I'm going to trace this wire down and look for any trace of BCM module. I need that +5V!
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Old Jul 13, 2007 | 06:22 PM
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PASSKEY-I:

There are 15 different combinations of resistance for each vehicle, the keys are randomly created and randomly assigned to different vehicles. When the wrong key is inserted into an already-programmed vehicle, the security light in the dash remains lit while the key is in the 'on' position. When removed, a counter starts which lasts between 2 to 4 minutes; during this period the vehicle cannot be started, even if you use the right key. In the PASSKEY-I system, the computer disables the starter relay box, so that the ignition system cannot supply voltage to the starter to start the car.
However, anyone with enough guts to climb under the car can start the car with a long screw driver; by crossing the posts on the starter.

GM found out people were doing this, the PASSKEY-I system was declared flawed, and the next generation, PASSKEY-II was put into active use.

PASSKEY-II:

The PASSKEY-II system has all the features of a PASSKEY-I system, it has the timer, the starter relay disable, and the 15 individual resistances.
The new thing in the PASSKEY-II system was an Injector Pulse disable. The computer sends a square wave pulse to the fuel injectors many times per second, to tell them when to mix fuel with the air. The PASSKEY-II system, when detecting the wrong key, disables this square wave pulse. Thus even if the starter was jumped off, the engine would not start (only crank) for lack of fuel.


It would seem that '89 vetts have a Passkey-II system
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Old Jul 13, 2007 | 06:39 PM
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Default Hooked on Vettes---Right You Are!

Originally Posted by Hooked on Vettes


No BCM in 89. First year for BCM/CCM in Corvettes was 90.
I've confirmed it! You are RIGHT Napa & Advance are WRONG!

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Old Jul 13, 2007 | 07:45 PM
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You don't have a VATS issue. The motor cranks and runs when sprayed. http://members.shaw.ca/dankai/Vats%20Electrical.pdf
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Old Jul 13, 2007 | 08:12 PM
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Let me tell you brother I feel your pain!!!
I have been going through the same thing you are and still have no luck with mine. I have even took the intake off and pulled the injectors and ultrasonic cleaned them. they were pretty dirty but it still wont run but for only a second. 89's have got to be the biggest headache It must be their
year to croak.Even in the corvette newsgroups people are writing in on them.
Everything you have been through ....It's like I am reading what has happened to me in the last 2 months.
Hang in there and maybe just maybe we can figure this thing out.
A quest A quest for fuel delivery !!!!!!https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...s/thumbsup.gif
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Old Jul 13, 2007 | 08:29 PM
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I appreciate it - but this link is for an '86 w/ a VATS Passkey I = it only disable the starter not the ECM the fuel injection. I have a '89 with a VATS/Passkey II. The Passkey II was introduced in the '89 'vettes.

PASSKEY-II:

The PASSKEY-II system has all the features of a PASSKEY-I system, it has the timer, the starter relay disable, and the 15 individual resistances.
The new thing in the PASSKEY-II system was an Injector Pulse disable. The computer sends a square wave pulse to the fuel injectors many times per second, to tell them when to mix fuel with the air. The PASSKEY-II system, when detecting the wrong key, disables this square wave pulse. Thus even if the starter was jumped off, the engine would not start (only crank) for lack of fuel.

I believe this is why the injectors do not fire.

One way or the other I'm going to see if this is the problem.

Note:
On '89 Corvettes the Passkey II connects directly to the ECM (Pin B6) to allow the ground circut to fire the injectors via +5V 50HZ signal generated from the VATS Decoder Module.

On '90 and newer models the circut passes through the Body Control Module (BCM) where the +5V 50HZ signal is generated then sent to the ECM. (This is why I was looking for the BCM on my ride)
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Old Jul 13, 2007 | 09:36 PM
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I'm going to either order VATS Bypass from Bakereletronics, buy a new VASTS module from the stealership(dealership) or build my own 5 volt frequecy generator from Radioshack.

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Old Jul 13, 2007 | 10:10 PM
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You may want ro check out htis site. http://www.vatssucks.com/
I had similar problem but mine wound up being the ecm, good luck Rich
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