C4 Tech/Performance L98 Corvette and LT1 Corvette Technical Info, Internal Engine, External Engine

89 vette won't start!

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Jul 12, 2007 | 05:57 PM
  #61  
Hooked on Vettes's Avatar
Hooked on Vettes
Melting Slicks
15 Year Member
 
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 2,240
Likes: 42
From: Baltimore, MD USA
Default





You're lookiing at a Camaro manual.
A code 53 for a 89 Y body vin 8 (Corvette) is System Over Voltage.

In your video, when the ether was sprayed into the throttle body, the engiine rpm did increase but the engine did not run on its own. The starter was still cranking the engine.

Have you visually verifyed the strenght of the spark by pulling a plug and laying it on the intake manifold while cranking the engine and also is the spark consistent?
Reply
Old Jul 12, 2007 | 07:23 PM
  #62  
engle1147's Avatar
engle1147
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Supporting Lifetime
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,043
Likes: 8
From: Tampa Florida
Default

Originally Posted by Hooked on Vettes




You're lookiing at a Camaro manual.
A code 53 for a 89 Y body vin 8 (Corvette) is System Over Voltage.

In your video, when the ether was sprayed into the throttle body, the engiine rpm did increase but the engine did not run on its own. The starter was still cranking the engine.

Have you visually verifyed the strenght of the spark by pulling a plug and laying it on the intake manifold while cranking the engine and also is the spark consistent?
Good eye yes, is a camaro book...bought it for a engine swap out project about 10 years ago to an S10 (that thing was fast!). Code may not be the same -- but the problem is.

No, I have not visually checked the strenth of the spark plug arch.
The posted video was not a good example of the ether running the car. I have run the car for as much as 30 sec. after the starter was done cranking the engine.
Reply
Old Jul 12, 2007 | 07:55 PM
  #63  
AGENT 86's Avatar
AGENT 86
Team Owner
20 Year Member
Active Streak: 30 Days
Active Streak: 60 Days
Active Streak: 90 Days
 
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,315
Likes: 245
From: Summerland B.C. Canada
Default

Why not sacrifice a couple of hours and pull the plenum and fuel rail and do a flow test of injectors. Time well spent at this point.
Reply
Old Jul 12, 2007 | 08:51 PM
  #64  
engle1147's Avatar
engle1147
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Supporting Lifetime
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,043
Likes: 8
From: Tampa Florida
Default

I'm starting to suspect a bad Body Control Module (BCM)....anybody know where this thing is located on the car and how to get it out to check for possible water intrusion?
Reply
Old Jul 12, 2007 | 09:04 PM
  #65  
Hooked on Vettes's Avatar
Hooked on Vettes
Melting Slicks
15 Year Member
 
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 2,240
Likes: 42
From: Baltimore, MD USA
Default



No BCM in 89. First year for BCM/CCM in Corvettes was 90.
Reply
Old Jul 12, 2007 | 09:14 PM
  #66  
engle1147's Avatar
engle1147
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Supporting Lifetime
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,043
Likes: 8
From: Tampa Florida
Default

Originally Posted by Hooked on Vettes


No BCM in 89. First year for BCM/CCM in Corvettes was 90.
What's this then?

Reply
Old Jul 12, 2007 | 09:41 PM
  #67  
Hooked on Vettes's Avatar
Hooked on Vettes
Melting Slicks
15 Year Member
 
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 2,240
Likes: 42
From: Baltimore, MD USA
Default





Don't believe everything you find on the internet.

16146688 is a BCM for a 90 Corvette.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1990-...spagenameZWDVW
Reply
Old Jul 12, 2007 | 09:52 PM
  #68  
engle1147's Avatar
engle1147
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Supporting Lifetime
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,043
Likes: 8
From: Tampa Florida
Default

Originally Posted by Hooked on Vettes




Don't believe everything you find on the internet.

16146688 is a BCM for a 90 Corvette.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1990-...spagenameZWDVW
Is NAPA wrong too?
[IMG][/IMG]
Reply
Corvette Stories

The Best of Corvette for Corvette Enthusiasts

story-0

10 Ugly Corvettes That We Still Kinda Love

 Joe Kucinski
story-1

Top 10 Most Expensive Corvettes Ever Sold on Bring A Trailer

 Brett Foote
story-2

10 Things Every Corvette Owner Needs (2026 Edition)

 Michael S. Palmer
story-3

8 Most "Only Corvette Owners Understand" Quirks and Problems

 Pouria Savadkouei
story-4

10 Reasons the C6 Z06 is Still A Performance Benchmark After 20 Years

 Joe Kucinski
story-5

How Much Horsepower Every Corvette Engine "LOST" in 1972

 Joe Kucinski
story-6

Top 10 DOs and DON'Ts for Protecting Your Convertible Top!

 Michael S. Palmer
story-7

Top 10 Most Explosive Corvettes Ever Made: Power-to-Weight Ratio Ranked!

 Joe Kucinski
story-8

150 hp to 1,250 hp: Every Corvette Generation Compared by the Specs That Matter

 Joe Kucinski
story-9

8 Coolest Corvette Pace Cars (and Replicas) of All Time

 Verdad Gallardo
Old Jul 12, 2007 | 10:29 PM
  #69  
Hooked on Vettes's Avatar
Hooked on Vettes
Melting Slicks
15 Year Member
 
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 2,240
Likes: 42
From: Baltimore, MD USA
Default

Yes NAPA is also wrong.

Last edited by Hooked on Vettes; Jul 12, 2007 at 10:32 PM.
Reply
Old Jul 13, 2007 | 12:31 AM
  #70  
AGENT 86's Avatar
AGENT 86
Team Owner
20 Year Member
Active Streak: 30 Days
Active Streak: 60 Days
Active Streak: 90 Days
 
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,315
Likes: 245
From: Summerland B.C. Canada
Default

You have proven to yourself that it is a fuel delivery problem. Why do you keep looking elsewhere.
Reply
Old Jul 13, 2007 | 09:15 AM
  #71  
woodstock's Avatar
woodstock
Advanced
20 Year Member
 
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 69
Likes: 1
From: Bremen
Default

Hooked on Vettes suggested already to measure the voltage of the TPS, but no feedback on that.
Did you try to start the engine with the TPS unhooked? What I am getting at, possibly a clear flood mode?

Oh, btw, do you get a bad gasoline smell when you crank it like that?

Last edited by woodstock; Jul 13, 2007 at 09:23 AM.
Reply
Old Jul 13, 2007 | 03:02 PM
  #72  
engle1147's Avatar
engle1147
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Supporting Lifetime
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,043
Likes: 8
From: Tampa Florida
Default Tps Test

Originally Posted by woodstock
Hooked on Vettes suggested already to measure the voltage of the TPS, but no feedback on that.
Did you try to start the engine with the TPS unhooked? What I am getting at, possibly a clear flood mode?

Oh, btw, do you get a bad gasoline smell when you crank it like that?
Engine is not running on gas only ether.... I'm not sure how ether is supposed to smell when it burns.... I don't smell anything unusal if that helps.

Also I did check the TPS senor the other day - just didn't reply - my bad. The sensor tested OK. I went back and checked again today and photographed it so that others can see what's going on or see how to test their own. I'm using A TPS test harness from Mid America p/n 17788 for this test. You don't need this tester - it just makes the test a little easier!

Picture #1 is of the TPS voltage with sensor in the closed throttle position. (Key must be in the "ON" position - engine is not running...measure across (probe) leads "A" & "B" with volt meter) If good reading should be between .450 and .615 at closed throttle and 5 volts @ W.O.T.

Picture #2 is of the TPS ohm reading with the sensor in the closed throttle position. (Sensor is unpluged measuring across (probe) pins "A" & "B" with ohm meter)

Picture #3 is of the TPS ohm reading with the sensor in the open throttle position. (Sensor is unpluged measuring across (probe) pins "A" & "B" with ohm meter)

Picture #1
[IMG][/IMG]

Picture #2


Picture #3
Reply
Old Jul 13, 2007 | 04:08 PM
  #73  
engle1147's Avatar
engle1147
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Supporting Lifetime
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,043
Likes: 8
From: Tampa Florida
Default

So I'm following up on possibility of a VATS problem. Today I removed the computer from the harness and probed pin B6 (dark blue wire for circut 229) getting this for voltage from the VATS Modulator instead of +5V. I'm going to trace this wire down and look for any trace of BCM module. I need that +5V!
Reply
Old Jul 13, 2007 | 06:22 PM
  #74  
engle1147's Avatar
engle1147
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Supporting Lifetime
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,043
Likes: 8
From: Tampa Florida
Default

PASSKEY-I:

There are 15 different combinations of resistance for each vehicle, the keys are randomly created and randomly assigned to different vehicles. When the wrong key is inserted into an already-programmed vehicle, the security light in the dash remains lit while the key is in the 'on' position. When removed, a counter starts which lasts between 2 to 4 minutes; during this period the vehicle cannot be started, even if you use the right key. In the PASSKEY-I system, the computer disables the starter relay box, so that the ignition system cannot supply voltage to the starter to start the car.
However, anyone with enough guts to climb under the car can start the car with a long screw driver; by crossing the posts on the starter.

GM found out people were doing this, the PASSKEY-I system was declared flawed, and the next generation, PASSKEY-II was put into active use.

PASSKEY-II:

The PASSKEY-II system has all the features of a PASSKEY-I system, it has the timer, the starter relay disable, and the 15 individual resistances.
The new thing in the PASSKEY-II system was an Injector Pulse disable. The computer sends a square wave pulse to the fuel injectors many times per second, to tell them when to mix fuel with the air. The PASSKEY-II system, when detecting the wrong key, disables this square wave pulse. Thus even if the starter was jumped off, the engine would not start (only crank) for lack of fuel.


It would seem that '89 vetts have a Passkey-II system
Reply
Old Jul 13, 2007 | 06:39 PM
  #75  
engle1147's Avatar
engle1147
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Supporting Lifetime
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,043
Likes: 8
From: Tampa Florida
Default Hooked on Vettes---Right You Are!

Originally Posted by Hooked on Vettes


No BCM in 89. First year for BCM/CCM in Corvettes was 90.
I've confirmed it! You are RIGHT Napa & Advance are WRONG!

Reply
Old Jul 13, 2007 | 07:45 PM
  #76  
AGENT 86's Avatar
AGENT 86
Team Owner
20 Year Member
Active Streak: 30 Days
Active Streak: 60 Days
Active Streak: 90 Days
 
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,315
Likes: 245
From: Summerland B.C. Canada
Default

You don't have a VATS issue. The motor cranks and runs when sprayed. http://members.shaw.ca/dankai/Vats%20Electrical.pdf
Reply
Old Jul 13, 2007 | 08:12 PM
  #77  
yellow 00's Avatar
yellow 00
Advanced
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 53
Likes: 1
Default

Let me tell you brother I feel your pain!!!
I have been going through the same thing you are and still have no luck with mine. I have even took the intake off and pulled the injectors and ultrasonic cleaned them. they were pretty dirty but it still wont run but for only a second. 89's have got to be the biggest headache It must be their
year to croak.Even in the corvette newsgroups people are writing in on them.
Everything you have been through ....It's like I am reading what has happened to me in the last 2 months.
Hang in there and maybe just maybe we can figure this thing out.
A quest A quest for fuel delivery !!!!!!https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...s/thumbsup.gif
Reply

Get notified of new replies

To 89 vette won't start!

Old Jul 13, 2007 | 08:29 PM
  #78  
engle1147's Avatar
engle1147
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Supporting Lifetime
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,043
Likes: 8
From: Tampa Florida
Default

I appreciate it - but this link is for an '86 w/ a VATS Passkey I = it only disable the starter not the ECM the fuel injection. I have a '89 with a VATS/Passkey II. The Passkey II was introduced in the '89 'vettes.

PASSKEY-II:

The PASSKEY-II system has all the features of a PASSKEY-I system, it has the timer, the starter relay disable, and the 15 individual resistances.
The new thing in the PASSKEY-II system was an Injector Pulse disable. The computer sends a square wave pulse to the fuel injectors many times per second, to tell them when to mix fuel with the air. The PASSKEY-II system, when detecting the wrong key, disables this square wave pulse. Thus even if the starter was jumped off, the engine would not start (only crank) for lack of fuel.

I believe this is why the injectors do not fire.

One way or the other I'm going to see if this is the problem.

Note:
On '89 Corvettes the Passkey II connects directly to the ECM (Pin B6) to allow the ground circut to fire the injectors via +5V 50HZ signal generated from the VATS Decoder Module.

On '90 and newer models the circut passes through the Body Control Module (BCM) where the +5V 50HZ signal is generated then sent to the ECM. (This is why I was looking for the BCM on my ride)
Reply
Old Jul 13, 2007 | 09:36 PM
  #79  
engle1147's Avatar
engle1147
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Supporting Lifetime
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,043
Likes: 8
From: Tampa Florida
Default

I'm going to either order VATS Bypass from Bakereletronics, buy a new VASTS module from the stealership(dealership) or build my own 5 volt frequecy generator from Radioshack.

Reply
Old Jul 13, 2007 | 10:10 PM
  #80  
richdwyer's Avatar
richdwyer
Instructor
10 Year Member
 
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 178
Likes: 3
From: Evansville IN
Default

You may want ro check out htis site. http://www.vatssucks.com/
I had similar problem but mine wound up being the ecm, good luck Rich
Reply



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:34 AM.

story-0
10 Ugly Corvettes That We Still Kinda Love

Slideshow: 10 ugly Corvettes that we still kinda love.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-06-03 10:34:17


VIEW MORE
story-1
Top 10 Most Expensive Corvettes Ever Sold on Bring A Trailer

A lot of money has changed hands at the online auction house over the years.

By Brett Foote | 2026-06-03 10:21:50


VIEW MORE
story-2
10 Things Every Corvette Owner Needs (2026 Edition)

Slideshow: 10 great gifts Corvette enthusiasts actually want for Father's Day!

By Michael S. Palmer | 2026-06-03 15:43:40


VIEW MORE
story-3
8 Most "Only Corvette Owners Understand" Quirks and Problems

Slideshow: These are the quirks, annoyances, and oddly lovable problems that every Corvette owner eventually learns to live with.

By Pouria Savadkouei | 2026-05-28 09:31:39


VIEW MORE
story-4
10 Reasons the C6 Z06 is Still A Performance Benchmark After 20 Years

Slideshow: 10 reasons why the C6 Z06 is still a performance benchmark after 20 years.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-05-27 17:20:09


VIEW MORE
story-5
How Much Horsepower Every Corvette Engine "LOST" in 1972

Slideshow: How much horsepower every Corvette engine lost in 1972.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-05-27 16:54:53


VIEW MORE
story-6
Top 10 DOs and DON'Ts for Protecting Your Convertible Top!

Slideshow: How to Protect A Convertible Top: 10 DOs & DON'Ts

By Michael S. Palmer | 2026-04-03 00:00:00


VIEW MORE
story-7
Top 10 Most Explosive Corvettes Ever Made: Power-to-Weight Ratio Ranked!

Slideshow: The 10 most explosive Corvettes ever built based on power-to-weight ratio.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-05-20 07:23:03


VIEW MORE
story-8
150 hp to 1,250 hp: Every Corvette Generation Compared by the Specs That Matter

Slideshow: From C1 to C8 we compare every Corvette generation by the numbers.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-05-12 16:54:12


VIEW MORE
story-9
8 Coolest Corvette Pace Cars (and Replicas) of All Time

Slideshow: Some Corvette pace cars became collectible legends, while others perfectly captured the look and attitude of their era.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-05-11 09:50:51


VIEW MORE