Call Accel directly, I did.

The company who makes their castings made the price so high they'd have to not sell Super Rams for like $2500.

They were priced out of the market.

There is, according to Accel, a tempory shortage, but the SR will be back in production shortly.

don't shoot the messenger.

 

Your right. It will produce different performance gains.

 

Right back at'cha!

 

If you are saying that a Miniram is a great intake for a 300+hp car, I agree. It's really not "bad" for a car with less power. It's just a matter of where you want your power curve....

For any motor, the MR will pull more at higher rpms -- compared to long-tube runners. For any motor that has sufficient low-end power that you break the rear end loose easily, it's a good choice. It's a good choice for stick cars where you can wrap the motor above (automatic's) shift points. And, it's a good intake for high-ratio rear ends.

Conversely, the long-runner intake is a better intake to add low-end/mid-range power. It's better on the street for cars that aren't wrapped to high rpms a lot. It's better for cars with low-ratio rear ends. It's good for automatic's that don't have shift kits. It's good for STREET power.

Both are good for different reasons.

I also think the SR is good. It fits right in the middle. If it was still available -- especially for the "right" price, you'd see it picked by more non-racing Vette owners than any other intake.

The only thing that's not so good is the stock TPI because it was sized for a 305 motor. The tubes are just a little too small.



gp

 

Greg's spot on!! Great analysis.

 

It's a truck engine!

 

Hmmmmm, now I'm totally confused . Let's stop talking about LTx motors...I don't have one. I have a stock L98,m6,3:45 rear with L/T headers into stock cat into Dronemaster mufflers, 160* t-stat and open air box. I want to have a little 'on-ramp' fun and the occasional thrill of the stop light derby. This is not a race car, I don't want a race car! I want my power low to mid range...it would also be nice to breathe a little past 4500rpm. And I really, really want to wipe the smirk off the face of my pimply faced little friend in the WRX! I'm still a long haired, hotrodder, rebel without a cause kind of guy stuck in this this old, fat, bald guys body! Help me

 

Of course this is a completely different question from the initial thread. A good recipe would be to do new heads and cam and not spend up to $1500 changing your intake which will have minimal effect by itself.
With your 3.45 gears you don't want to go much higher rpm's or you will need to go to lower gears. That's another $1000.
So....I would get some good after market heads and a cam first. I don't want to stir up another fight over brands, but do some research and look at Brodix 180 IK heads. Look at a minimum of something like a ZZ409 TPiS cam. Maybe a Comp Cams 502 etc. Your stock injectors should be fine. Do some research, lots of threads on this.

 

For the most part, you described the advantages of the large-tube runner setup. Choosing this option will give you about 2 tenths in the 1/8th mile. That's close to 2 car lengths additional power (in that length race). On-ramps will still be more fun and you'll have better performance in 3rd gear. (But, it's not an all-out, high-speed intake).

As delivered, your car is about the best combo for street-racing Chevrolet delivered in L98's -- 6-speed, alum heads, decent rockers, high gears, etc.... But the intake and exhaust were restrictions to your motor's stock potential. You've already eliminated the exhaust restriction. That leaves the intake.

The large-tube runner (with larger-tube base) will get you the best "street car" upgrade. That's w/o adding bigger heads/cam (hence my qualification of "street potential".) You need to understand a little about the pulsing and waves occurring in an intake to really get why. Suffice it to say the large-tube runner setup borrows high-rpm power to make middle-rpm power more impressive. That's a real advantage if you're staying under 80-100mph. But, as BADDUCK points out, it can make it feel like a truck. That's because truck's don't rev high. They have low-end power. They're geared high.... If you don't think your vette feels like a truck now, then don't worry, the large-tube runner will improve it's current feel/performance. It won't feel like a truck. It's not. It's a metaphor.

For comparison, a short-runner intake provides more top-end power -- especially when changing from a TPI setup! You will lose some of the low-end "grunt" because you're eliminating that trade-off previously mentioned. But, you're letting the motor breath to it's max! It will perform more like a turbo motor -- that builds power as it winds. (It won't be a turbo of course). The key is the phrase "breathe to it's max". In reality, a short-runner intake can breathe more than your motor currently can. The heads can't flow as much as a short-runner intake. Same is true for your headers. Now you will be in the range where your motor doesn't perform as well as your intake/exhaust! That's why so many scream for heads/cam.....

By itself, a short-runner intake will help your stock motor because the stock TPI is still a restriction. A short-runner intake will breathe better and it sets you up for more modifications. Most importantly, if you install better heads/cam, you won't need a long-runner intake because you won't need to borrow power up high to improve what's down low. You won't need more power down low because your 350 will approach big-block territory. But, lets return to the long-runner option for a minute...

If you look at the power curve of a long-runner intake, it will make the low-to-mid power feel like a car that has 75-100hp more than it really has. In lower rpms, it really does have that much more power -- which is why you'll win races in the 1/8th mile. But, many people simply don't like this option (intake) because the power doesn't continue to build. Short runner intakes build power more like turbos/superchargers. And, in longer races, they will always win.

Now, you just have to decide if your in it for the short race... or the long haul!



Gregg

 

Thanks Gregg, well written and very informative... it's never an easy choice is it? Unless the money tree has many, many branches!

 

I would do the head cam first and the intake last if you can't do it all at once. A large tube long runner TPI won't do squat on it's own. Maybe 10-20 crank horsepower max.

 

SLP runners alone = 10hp (centered around 3500)
SLP runners w/base = 20hp " "
SLPs mega-ported = ??? may move curve up 500 rpm
Edelbrock HiFlo = same as SLP (about 20hp -- runners are < ASM)
ASM LT w base = 30lbs torque/25hp (centered around 3.5k-4k rpm)
TPiS LT w base = same as ASM
Accel LT w base = same as ASM
MR alone = 35-40 hp (way up in 5k+rpms)
Cam alone = 25hp
heads alone = 30-40hp
Heads + Cam = 75-100hp (combination improves individual gain)

gp

btw: intake gains will be higher on top of bigger head/cammed motors...

 

So I'm getting the feeling that the right thing to do is "all or nothing at all" which was always knocking around the back of my head anyway. I was hoping there was a way to cheat the system, but I guess I'd only be cheating myself. I'm not really prepared to spend the big money on heads, cam, intake, rr's, etc...not yet anyway!

 

The "right thing".... hmmmmmmmm........

I'm going to "chince-out" and try everything except head/cam (i.e., headers, intake, and 1.6 rr). It took 6 months to thoroughly read about the options (in my spare time). I just shared with you -- a summary -- of what I learned.

Some would say do all or nothing. Most would say headers is a definite regardless of what you do. You got that one "right". I pulled my intake because of injectors. I find it hard to replace something I know could be better. You sounded like you were in the same boat.

My view is that headers + intake + rr = 50+ hp gain over a stock motor. That's 20% improvement. 20% is something you can feel. If I can feel it, it's worth it.

gp

 

Again, all or nothing is not required. Heads and cam will be great long term mod to meet your stated goals. It is not necessary to do the intake at all. Sometimes it is possible to suffer from TMI (too much information). Again, heads/cam is a great mod for adding horsepower. 75+ HP can be expected with the proper combo.

 

I know this seems like it will never get done ,but Bryan at BBK says the new TPI design is coming.It's in between a long runner and a short runner design.He posted over at Third Gen.that the aluminum blanks are there, and the CNC tooling is being setup. Could be here this summer.

 

Hey, check this out. Post 30. Seems the first TPI intake is out performing the MR......the best of both worlds? The grunt of a TPI and the power of a MR.

By these numbers, looks like FIRST has one hell of a product.

The nice thing about these tests is that they are on the same motor, the only variable is the intake. This is a TRUE test.

 

It must be after my bedtime as I'm not following this post at all. Would you mind explaining again?

 

TMI

 

Forgot the link....
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...t=First+Intake

Look at the dyno results for the First Intake vs. The MR.

The good part is you get all of the low end grunt of the TPI, and the HP numbers of the MR. The TPI only falls off at 5500 RPMs, it is superior at every other RPM range. You will RARELY drive the car at 5500 RPMs. Therefore, the FIRST seems to be a real good option.