I always do them 1 at a time.
I roll the motor over till it completely opens the valve, abd then completely closes. Then roll motor a bit more to be absolutely sure it is on base circle.
Then I spin the pushrod with my fingers while tightening the nut until it just binds the pushrod. Add 1/2 turn, and lock it down.
Repeat 15 more times.

 

If you can't find the TDC mark or are working with any 4 cycle engine, you can always be assured to find the base circle on the cam lobe by adjusting the (adjacent same cylinder) EXHAUST valve when the intake reaches max lift and just goes past that on the closing motion and adjust the INTAKE when the closed exhaust just lifts off its seat after the compression stroke.

this requires turning the motor a little 16 times, but it works for any 4 cycle engine..always.

 

Okay, I'll give that a try. So much for adjusting the valves, I'll have to do it over I guess.

LE emailed me back. He's going to send me a few locks. Can't buy the Patriots separate from the kits. Their thick like Super 10's but in a 7 degree. What he said anyway.

To anyone thinking about doing something like this.......get you a Kent Moore Hub removal/installation tool. Holy smokes that makes it easy!!!

Got the TC, hub and OLD Opti back on. (Thanks for the tip Mike! I had already done the paint thing on the hub and damper the first time) We'll see if it was the opti all along like Steve40th said it probably was. At least I know it was good when I took it off. It had a cap and rotor put in it about a year or so ago.

 

Funny you should mention this. That's the way I ended up doing it. Thanks!

 

Right now, as we "speak" there are at LEAST three on-going threads posted on other Forums by guys who are having a nightmare of a time using the TDC method. I even receive Private Messages from guys asking how to find TDC because in the hours they've worked on their preload settings, they couldn't find it correctly.

Very recently, one guy posted, pleading for help when using the TDC method. He was out in the SNOW and RAIN trying to get it done and had become frustrated to no end. This type of thing happens ALL THE TIME. Wish I had a dollar.

One of the advantages of visiting several different websites is that I am able to see a broader view of what's really going on with our engines and the problems guys are having with setting their preload.

I've even had a not too heated exchange with a respected member on another Forum on this very issue. I'm going to cut and paste my last post on this issue. Give me a sec to track it down.

Just let me say, the TDC method is REALLY hard to nail. As I always say, there are several different ways to adjust lifter preload and all of them will work, but ONLY is done correctly. [

B]Therein lies the rub. [/B]

Simply put, some methods are much more prone to error to others; TDC is one of the error prone procedures.

If you want to discuss error prone procedures, put the TDC method at the top of the list. Guys who are familiar with that procedure my tell you it's a piece of cake, but be fore-warned. For the uninitiated, t'aint so.

My feeling is you've gone through enough already and don't need yet MORE aggravation in trying to correct your problem. I'm writing this in the hope of making your life just a bit less stressful.

I hope I've been able to make my point; if not, I can already see what's coming.

Jake

West Point ROCKS! Nation's TOP COLLEGE per Forbes Magazine!! Graduation Day Parade 20 May 2010!!!

 

Here's the post from the other Forum. I'm not trying to force-feed anything to anyone, just sharing what I've learned.

"I don't want to become involved in a back and forth exchange over which way is best, but, at times, I do become frustrated. Frustrated because I visit so many different Forums and this TDC method causes SO many guys the same problem. Frustrated because I feel for them when reading about what they're going through, the aggravation it's causing him, etc. The word "compassion" comes to mind.

I regularly read about guys struggling, trying to set their preload without much success. One of the advantages of not putting all my eggs in one basket (i.e. by visiting multiple forums) is I get a wider exposure to the problems others are having.

Hell, I even receive PMs from guys asking me how to find TDC. Guys who have been trying for hours to find it and can't. I never said it "wouldn't work", in fact I've repeatedly written just the OPPOSITE. I've written that "All of them will work, but only if done correctly" - anybody remember reading that? There are at least three on-going threads, RIGHT NOW, on other Forums started by guys having the same issues with the TDC procedure.

Also, I said was it's going to drive him "nuts" trying to get it to work (which is what happens - he's not the only one), that it's too error prone and you can fill in the blanks for all the rest. For the average guy, just cutting his teeth on setting preload, it's just too complicated. So I ask myself: "Why would I continue to allow someone to continue to use a procedure that has so little chance of success?"

If our goal is to help others, truly HELP others by giving the "best" advice, it behooves us to give advice that is the most accurate, least prone to mistakes, easiest to comprehend and what will work. Putting myself in the shoes of the guy who's struggling helps give me insight on what he's going through. So, for example, when I read about a guy who's using a dial indicator to set his lifter preload, I write "Yo! Hold on there, there's a 'better' way."

I'm all about helping, helping in the best way I can. This guy is out in the SNOW and RAIN trying to get the job done; practically begging for HELP! Can't you FEEL for him??? I certainly do."

Jake

West Point ROCKS! Nation's TOP COLLEGE per Forbes Magazine!! Graduation Day Parade 20 May 2010!!!

 

No problem...........I'll do it with the engine running like I always have. I did it this way when I changed over to 1.6 rr's. It worked fine. I picked up 17rwhp.

LE has my locks in the mail so I can continue as soon as it gets here. Hopefully tomorrow.

Since I was unable to uncover anything wrong in tearing it back down I'm going to put it all back like it was in hopes it was the opti causing the problem. If the problem is still there I'm going to install the LT4 knock module and see if that helps. If it is still there after that I'm probably going to have the springs checked and go from there. I'm still not convinced there is something not right with the timing in this tune I have. I guess the only way to find that out is have another one done. So that's where it's all at for now.

 

A few more thoughts; I hope you'll agree:

You committed a LOT of time and effort in tearing into the engine, checking the cam degreeing and putting everything all back together. Yet, if you put everything back as it was before, that effectively leaves you at the same spot. Nothing was changed so how can a different result be expected?

So swapping the knock module, Opti, checking springs, etc., is a good idea. I generally don't subscribe to throwing parts at a problem, hoping to find one that cures the issue, but in your case I don't see any option at this point.

I've been hoping all along that someone who is really knowledgeable on reading your dyno print-out would chime in with some tips and clues. Maybe you could post your dyno results and questions on that specific board and ask those guys to have a look-see. Many of them are really knowledgeable about this stuff. Could be that one of them has already had the same issues, found the cause and will point you in the right direction.

I haven't read anything on the timing retard topic on LT1, but I have on L98s. One of the interesting things with the L98 is that when knock is detected, the ECM pulls out timing a pretty big chunks. The wrinkle is that it only puts that timing back in SLOWLY. So, if it pulls out, say 10 degrees, it takes a relatively long time for that same 10 degrees to be returned. I don't know if the LT1 PCM works the same way though.

Also, on a L98 a resistor can be added to the knock module wiring to completely eliminate the knock retard function and NOT set a code. Yet, I read it can't be done on ther LT1. If it could, you could simply disable the knock retard function temporarily to see if the trace levels out and the HP you're expecting returns. Maybe someone knows how that can be done.

I'm still with you on this and I'l keep trying to come up with something that'll help solve this.

Jake

West Point ROCKS! Nation's TOP COLLEGE per Forbes Magazine!! Graduation Day Parade 20 May 2010!!!

 

The knock retard function needs the PCM tuned out. My latest tune shows 3 degrees at 3500 up to 6 degrees at 6500. Thats one table, and there are 4 tables associated with knock retard and regain of timing.
The biggest was ASR timing, which was over 25 degrees of timing taken out when activated.

 

Well, not quite Jake a little change of plans.......

I'm off to Laurniburg to get a spring checked. It'll take a couple of hours but I'll post what I find out as soon as I can.

 

Okay, I got the spring pressure tested on the spring. Here's the result

This was based on an install height of 1.78 with 1.6 rr's
150lbs seat pressure
365 open pressure

This was a performance shop I went to. The guy that did the test said this was not out of line for an LT1 head and that it probably wasn't my problem.

I talked with him about preload for a little bit. As long as the preload is not to much there should not be a problem with the valves opening and closing correctly. Actually, he said I could run O preload and it would be fine, just noisy.

So, one more thing has been eliminated as the problem. The valve locks should be here tomorrow or Wed. at the latest. At this point I'm still hoping it was an opti issue but with no noticeable misfiring or backfires I have my doubts.

I have made some other changes since the last dyno pull. This was while the car was on the stands so I haven't seen any results yet. I know these are probably not causing the loss in power but you guys told me to get everything right before I have another tune done.

Two new Delphi O2 sensors
New FPR
I may have had a slight exhaust leak at the air tube fittings on the headers. I didn't put any sealant in when I put it back together the first time. The drivers side was pretty lose when I went to add the sealant. I really didn't think it was required since it is a flared fitting.

So, that's where everything stands at the moment.

 

Don't forget that you are going back to the old opti that was used before the camshaft install.

Myself and a few other have mentioned possible ignition issues since we first viewed the dyno graph. With so many variables eliminated, let's hope it is the opti.

 

I hoping Mike, It's already on there.

 

Well if it is not the Opti, its got to be the muffler bearing, they always fail to work.

 

Bout all that's left isn't it........

 

It has been suggested that I do a compression test again only this time I do it twice. Once dry and then again with oil.

What will squirting oil in cylinder tell me?

I can adjust the valves like Pete has suggested here to do this.

 

Found it in the FSM

 

Sounds good! You're making good progress.

One question though; during the dyno pull, the one that DIDN'T give you the results you were expecting, did you HEAR any engine sound that was unusual? Any stumbling/break-up/hesistation, etc. Did the engine SOUND crisp and clean? Any exhaust smoke? (That's more than one question, tho, right?) LOL

Jake

West Point ROCKS! Nation's TOP COLLEGE per Forbes Magazine!! Graduation Day Parade 20 May 2010!!!

 

The operator dropped it down in passing gear on the first try. There was some slight smoke then but just looked normal to me. It was black in color.There was very little smoke on the the next try and it sounded good to start with then as the rpm got up the engine just seemed to bog down. No stumbling or any like that just boggy or sluggish sounding. It has sounded this way before down at the track when it shifts from 2nd to 3rd but that didn't seem as pronounced as on the dyno. I haven't been back to the track since the cam swap. Saw no need in it.

There is one thing I had forgotten about on the last track trip. The guys with me saw a puff of smoke out the right hand side on the first run. I fluffed it off as carbon burn off. It didn't seem to effect the next two runs at all. All three were about the same.

 

As a LAST RESORT MEASURE (LOL) I did some research in my 96 FSM for you.

I checked the Trouble Shooting section for the causes of NOISE that could result in Knock Retard . Guess what is listed as the VERY FIRST cause?

"As the crowd holds its breath in silent anticipation:"

"Incorrectly adjusted valve lash"!

Now, to me, that flies in the face of the imprecise "advice" given by "the guy who did the test". Seems like he's one of those "Ah, it should work" types. When I come across "that kind of advice", I cough twice and MOVE ON! Whatever happened to precision anyway?

"Bad information and recognizing it" is SO important that the KeyNote speaker at my daughter's Harvard in-coming ceremony made that the TOPIC of his presentation. Saying: "If you, the freshman Class of 2005, don't learn ANYTHING else in your four years here at Harvard I hope you learn to recognize bad information when you come across it." (emphasis added but I believe I nailed his quote)

Anyway, here are the remainder of the listed causes; in the order they appear:

Low oil pressure
Loose valve rocker arm attachments
Worn valve rocker arm and/or pushrod
Broken valve spring
Sticking valves
Lifters worn, dirty or faulty
Camshaft lobes worn
Worn valve guides
Worn or damaged valve keys (re: the broken one you have)
Bent pushrods

Just more arrows for your quiver. Hope it helps.

Jake

West Point ROCKS! Nation's TOP COLLEGE per Forbes Magazine!! Graduation Day Parade 20 May 2010!!!