thanx dude..i will post them now

 

here we go..this is my pump..or was my pump..



any comments?

 

You posted the album as image...you have to post your image !

CHECK THIS THREAD !

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/help...al-inside.html

 

 

ok..here are the pics of the pump









any comments?

thanx for all help guys)

 

thanx..i've lost my self for a moment)...
specail thanx to my frined Sammy also) rock on dude

 

The PATC Billet slide I did not use.
I saw that it was available too.
I just used the 10 vane billet rotor that was available separate last year.
The 1st billet rotor I received from PATC trans was mis -machined.
A factory reject as I call it.
2 of the pump vane slots were machined too wide. One slot was .004" wider than the rest of the 9.
Other slot was .002" too wide.
Slots should be machined + or - .0001" tolerance from nominal.

I called back and complained.
They immediately pulled every 10 vane pump rotor off their shelf and hand checked each one for me.

They found me a 10 vane billet rotor that was perfect and too my liking.
And I received the 2nd billet steel pump rotor 2 days later.
And it was OK. Too my liking.
Only 1 guy in California makes these 700R4 and 4L60E Billet steel 10&13 vane billet steel pump rotors.
He must make the optional billet steel slides too.

I am a fanatic about close machined tolerances.
I used to work in a machine shop in my 20's.
I know all about quality machine work and precision fitted parts in an assembly.
I own 0 to 5" micrometer set that measures to .0001" or measures to 1-tenth of an inch.
Numerous dial calipers. Dial indicator sets.
Starret Lathe and Bridgeport Verticle mill set up dial indicator - TRUE TEST.
Height gauges & many other specialized measuring tools.
And my brother has a huge collection of machine tools and measuring equipment too.
He has a large 4'X4' Starret made surface plate granite table. Used for super precision measuring checks with a calibrated height gauge.
I can easily check any machined part that I want.

You must precision fit these 700R4 and 4L60E transmission front oil pumps.
The FSM and ATSG books show the step by step process in great detail.
If you dont follow or adhere to tolerances recommended...........
You will have failures.
You have to check the pump rotor thickness, each vane, pump slide, and both pump halves.
Especially when mixing parts new or used from what the factory provided.
Measure down too .0001".
Tolerances provided in FSM and ATSG.

Too me, it looks like you had a Hydraulic lockup of some sort.
The pump Deadheaded.
Something had to give.
It was the pump rotor and slide in your photos.

It is worthwhile getting a hold of Pete K. on Sunday.
If you dont have the means to set up a front pump to close tolerances............
Dont do it yourself.
Buy a BLUEPRINTED FRONT PUMP FROM SOMEONE LIKE PETE K.

He is a professional too.
He likes getting paid for his work and craftsmanship.

Brian

 

thanx Brian a lot..the only thing that i didn't buy jet is a pump..all other parts are ok and in tolerance..
I am waiting that Petek see this and then i can get some more info from him.
I don't want to buy another pump and then destroy it.I had an intention to ask Petek to do it for me...

**I think that main cause of this failure was this, that the trans guy(my ex friend now) used the old version of the pump(86) on 91' trans, which has different angle of oil feed!
***or he did the lousy work when he puted pump togheter!

I have the ATSG manual. I don't do nothig without manuals on my vette)..

Thanx for info..with you guys i will for shure do it right this time!

BR,Seba

P.S.: Brian...do you have PeteK email?

 

No I don't have Pete's email.
He is a private and soft spoken guy it seems.
When he is ready to speak and help...........
He will be there.
Lately I see him only active on Sundays here on C4 tech.
86 front pump assembly on a 91 Vette trans was a bad idea indeed.
Caused you grief.
Probably honest mistake on the other mechanics part.
I was only educated of the difference from reading the Blue and Green ATSG manuals on the 700R4's.
Wait for Pete before doing any major moves or money spent.
The weekend and Sunday is right around the corner.
Let him be the Final Word.
Not me.
Don't wish to step on his toes anymore.

Brian

 

thanx..yes for shure i will wait for PeteK's opinion..i bought some parts that i know should be ok to change watching Mike's thread...
parts like: bushings, reverse imput drum(i can't be real shure if its 100% round), gaskets,a new vigilante TC is on the way,...but not the pump...for pump i will wait..i have enough work to clean everything in the trans and do it right..
with what cleaning solvent or cleaner can i clean my parts..cause they were already in for this 60 mils..but they are ok..plates are like new..and everything else looks like new..
i have to see all the clearences now and check them out...
i bought a pump puller/end play checker, KENT MOORE 4L60 700R4 BAND APPLY PIN GAUGE J-33037, and some lip protectors..
so i am ready to do it..
i also have all ATSG manuals and updates..so here we go
BR,Seba

 

 

hi guys any news....PeteK?

 

Hello, this sounds like a tv cable problem. If the presure is to low it will burn the 3 4 in a few miles then the burnt clutches clog the VB and the govener and cause complete failure. Is this Carb or TPI

http://atransmission.info

 

Looking at the top of the rotor it looks like the converter was not in all the way and may have been riding on the outside of the rotor...... what converter are you using?

http://atransmission.info

 

BUMP...i got my parts today less pump...also a 3200 stall vigilante..thanx Jack at P.I. and Sammy for all help) with my vigilante TC...

so i need a new pump..i will dig it on net tonight to find out what to buy..

thanx also to Brian for all help with diagnostics and advices..


BR,Seba

 

can someone tel me how to replace input pump stator with sonax hardened one?
is this stator presed on the pump shell...when i unscrewed the 3 torx bolts i tried to get this stator of with a wooden hammer but with no results..i also checked this in several maluals how to do it..but no luck...hope someone can help me out...

 

hi...i complatly missed your last two posts...sorry fot that...are u from PATS shop?i bought pump parts and some other stuff from you...
it's inpossible to burn the 3/4 clutch with TCI constant preshure regulator...
maybe the converter was bad mounted...but when i opened the trans was more little mistakes, that probably caused a failure..leakages from bad instalation of gaskets, bad and ruined bearings on a new sonnax hardened pump stator and many more...

if somenone knows what is the right torque for 3 bolts for pump stator...and if i have to use any loctite on this bolts?

Thanx...BR,Seba

 

Use Red Loctite on the three pump stator to the rear pump housing bolts.

Torque them down to 89 in/lbs.

Or Snug and a little bit more by hand with a 1/4" inch drive ratchet.
Use a GOOD T20 or T25 (from my memory) Torx driver bit such as A SNAP ON Torx tool.

The Torx button head bolts round off easily with a poor fitting and cheaply made TORX tool.

BR

 

hi Brian..thanx for the torque data...it is T27..i bought it heavy duty one just for this aplication...a cheap torx wont do the job...
i changed my original stator with sonnax one yestarday.i used a hidraulic press...and i placed Loctite #518(very expensive..oucha ) sealant on the leading edge of the stator like they sais in Sonnax istalation manual...
today i start the rebuilding of my TH700...hope everything will be ok

BR,Seba

 

Hi,

Yes all loctite thread locking compounds are expensive these days but get the job done as required.

I am not sure if I like the TCI constant line pressure valvebody and hardware for a 700R4 trans.
For Strip use only that would be OK.
But most C4 Corvettes are street driven too very often.
Full transmission line pressure on the street is not necessary during light part throttle driving.

Full line pressures of 300 - 400psi will slam you very hard and send the rear street radial tires up in tire smoke spinning wildly when you probably don't want them too.
Even 250 + max line pressure will do the same.

The Transgo JR shift kit in stock form or the recommended complete Transgo Reprogram 2-3 shift kit with full manual valvebody function setup correctly would be my choices to use on the street and strip 1st along with the factory GM valvebody.

The precision cast and machined aluminum bodied input drum on 700R4 and 4L60E transmissions scare me the most in high performance applications.
They are not very shock or fracture resistant like many may think they are.
If you were to take a non loaded 700R4 input drum and drop it from 3- 4 feet off he ground onto a concrete floor............
It will break right where the splined steel input shaft presses in............
part of aluminum housing will give away in a perfect circle and the shaft will fall right through the housing.
My longtime time transmission builder friend Jeff(He has built Automatic transmissions for 2,000+ horsepower drag cars and since 1985) back home demonstrated this to me.
I had not one complete 700R4 input drum no longer but 2 broken parts.
he only just dropped it 3 feet off the concrete shop floor.

I am having my brother in law make me a couple of 6AL4V Titanium input drums in the near future.
So I have them on hand for myself.
He is a mechanical engineer and has a 5- axis CNC Mazak at work.

Its a complicated input drum our C4 transmissions use with a multi step Taper present also.
Not easily duplicated on a home lathe and vertical Bridgeport mill.

I could not find anyone to sell me a Titanium Input drum for my 700R4 at the time of my trans rebuild last year.

Chris at CK Performance told me he did not want to make anymore Ti input drums even with $2,500 given to him up front.
Said it was too much complicated machine work and he makes no money producing and selling them.

PATC Trans quoted me $2,000 some dollars for a 700R4/4L60E Titanium input drum but have none on hand yet.
Think the producer of them went belly up broke in the US recession still going on.

Showed my brother in law Ryan the mechanical engineer what I wanted made out of Titanium.
He said that's easy Brian.
No problem.
Buy the titanium and I will make it for you.



BR