I dont have any scientific evidence but have proven it on the dyno and on the track the car makes more power when its running cooler meaning 17-18x vs say 20x-up. In black and white.
I dont care if it doesnt burn as clean or last an extra 1000 miles.
All about power.

 

When you have a very hot or super powerfull street/ strip engine driven on the street often with a static compression ratio of 11:1 to 14.5:1 & have to run 110 + motor octane race gas &

a very long duration camshaft of 250 degrees to 280 degrees at .050" inch lift with 85 to 105 degrees valve overlap.

The kind of camshaft profile that will not just basic idle below 2,000RPM's no matter what you do...........

That engine will not be happy with steady running coolant temps of 200 to 230 degrees F I know from my own experience & helping others with similar builds.

140 F to 185 F....................

The engine & you are much happier.

 

Don't care about emissions myself.

What is worse is daily what the politicians are doing to all of us.

Bend over backwards grabbing your ankles firm................

have someone else shove a big stick up your rear............

Same effect...

 

Here is a link to an excellent article about engine cooling systems titled, " 14 Rules for Improving Engine Cooling System Capability in High-Performance Automobiles". Go to www.arrowheadradiator.com and click on technical articles and scan down to the article 14 rules for improving....

 

There is a strong correlation between camshaft profiles being stock low duration, street performance, high performance street, And full race camshaft profiles.

And the actual running water temps they prefer.

How I sum it up in my own experience.

Having the option to cool your C4 down to 140F driving down the highway with no electric assist fans on is very desirable to me.

If I want 195 F water temps then I could install a 195F.

This thread is getting old to me.

He only spent $175.00

Not much you can buy new anymore for that kind of price for any Corvette.

 

Ok I read the article in the General Section on expensive aluminum radiators. The biggest difference I see is that DeWitts builds his own cores and puts extra flux in places where they are prone to leakage.

So lets say you buy a champion radiator at half the cost and the core doesn't leak, does that mean that it cools just as well as a DeWitts?

 

That's the reason I said I'd be fine hearing how DeWitt's units perform on the road. But like conditions would need to be compared. For example: two like year, stock vettes with upgraded radiators and stock thermostats would be a fair comparison -- while running in similar conditions and temps.

Once mods start being added, I think the control loses its value. The biggest difference besides number of rows is the density of rows (I'd think). Champion says they worked on optimizing that too. Could be code for they copied DeWitt's or BeCool configs.

The reason why I bought the Champion 2-row is I'd put money on that purchase being at least close to the (much) higher priced option. Throw in a $40 Spal fan from eBay and I'd bet it would outperform the DeWitts easy.

I like the 3-row option too. Had someone shown me the core was wider BEFORE my purchase, I would have spend the extra $40.

 

I had another idea to help this along for potential buyers. Let's consider some valid, specific questions what are indicative of the degree of improvement from an aftermarket radiator. Take these same questions and post them in the DeWitt's thread (currently running in C4General).

1) Can the upgrade to DeWitt's keep main and/or aux fans from [ever] kicking on? (By this, I mean in 100-deg temps with otherwise stock components.) My guess is no.
2) For stroker owners, what other supporting mods (besides a larger radiator) were required to get your temps under control? (I was also try to figure out compression and use of the motor).
3) Questioning idle temp performance would also be key. (For example, adding a larger radiator to my stroker cured my climbing temps issue when I'm not running the A/C. Even when I'm running the A/C, I'd have to come to a complete stop (and idle) for about 10-minutes before temperatures would get high enough to turn off the A/C. With the stock radiator, temps would climb even w/o the A/C running.)

I think there are other scenarios worth comparing. I invite ideas (in this regard) to determine a fair comparison of performance.

In my case, upgrading to an electric water pump OR a fan with higher CFM would control all situations. Of course, this may have been true had I kept the stock radiator. That, I don't know. (I doubt it.)

 

When I purchased my Vett 2 years ago me and my Daughter where climbing some long up hill grades I notice back then the temps started to climb with the stock motor.

Now I running the 383 Stroker 10.7 to 1 compression it runs warmer in stop and go traffic I have not done any long up grade hill climbs yet but I sure with the stock Rad it would climb fast.

The Last couple week out here it's been HOT out here and the Water temps would get up there fast.

Thats when I read this Theed then Purchased a 3 core I glad I did it still hot out here for outside temps but the car is cooler.

I sure there's better and more expensive way for other Rad water pump set ups High buck fans setups but I don't need them it a DD I not racing the car so in my eye it would be a waste of good money to buy the high $$$ stuff.

 

..... Marv ... Please turn on the spell check ...................

 

It not working

 

That's, right there, is the [critical] type of information that needs to be included with a review. When you said temps were still climbing after installing a 3-row radiator, I say you haven't done enough to mitigate your higher compression power plant. If you look back thru this thread, you will see how people challenged that I hadn't done enough either -- even though I have a high flow water pump, 2-row radiator, and lowered fan temps. For A/C operation at idle, they are correct.

Your [static] compression is higher than mine. You need more than a radiator alone to address your new cooling demands. I spent quite a bit of time investigating what I might need. Now, I've got all of it installed and still have a bit more to go.

I bet you (Marv) spent less time (than me) looking into this topic and should focus more attention on it before buying a new set of wheels (as I saw you mention in another thread). That's what I've been trying to say in my last couple of posts to you. As Cuisinartvette and Brian pointed out, you need to keep those temps, especially oil temps under control.

 

When the outside temps are a normal the oil and water temps been fine it just been so hot out here the last couple weeks between the outside temp the heat coming off the road this why My temps have been higher than normal.

Once his heat wave passes I think I will be fine On my last 355 motor I was running a oil cooler what I don't like about it it held 3 extra Qt's of oil that when you did a oil change you could not drain out of the system unless you pull the oil cooler hose and blow them out.

Thats why this time around I went with a 8 QT oil pan.

When I had the car running when it was cold out the temps were a lot lowwer in the cooler mornings all the temps are low.

Like I said for out here it the outside temps makings things run on the warm side.

 

(Quoting above is my response to the prior post)

Let's just say waiting for a cooler day isn't the best (or normal approach). I wouldn't want those temps with a 10.7:1 engine. I'll add that those looking at buying a Champion radiator might not be impressed by the temps you reported above. There are reasons for those temps you don't seem to want to address -- reasons that a radiator and oil pan won't address.

Let's just say I'm not impressed or think you're doing the right thing. If you bothered to look at Vizzard's temperature recommendations for high compression, you'd see why.

Maybe you think you've got things covered, but I think you're nuts. And, that includes building for mere street operation. You haven't done your homework.

Maybe you're O.K. with the knock sensor kicking in (all day long) on hot days and removing timing to back off detonation. I hope your ESC never fails. Trusting your build to a mail order chip from Alvin isn't what it takes to build for performance power levels.

Tell him Brian and Ron.

 

I asked this question before I put the 383 together just about everyone said 10-7 to 1 with my motor setup will work fine.

I using the same heads that were on the 355 62cc heads is kinda the same when I built the 355 first others said use 195 heads after building the motor others said you should went with 175 or 180 heads.

Not saying you right or wrong but I ask 10 others I get 5 say one thing and the other 5 saying they are wrong and they are right and the next week 5 more will tell me they all wrong.

Same for the cam I using some say it good for I need it for and meets Ca Smog other say you should went to a bigger cam.


So I asked the question before I built the motor but now you saying I went about wrong.

 

Build your engine & C4 as you want it & see fit.

If you read all threads carefully,

C4 radiators are similar or the same as Chevy S-10 & Blazer radiators.
Something I never knew & will remember from this thread.

 

Fixed.

This is a cooling thread. Keep up.

 

your CR IS fine...

a bigger cam always makes it harder to get through emissions... but usually gives a better top end horsepower.

you have a cooling issue, there are many ways to approach it. - all of them involve getting heat off the motor faster...

what is your specific question again?

 

... so you replaced the radiator and put in a bigger one, and now the car doesn't heat up as fast and you are happy now?

correct, or no?

 

i would suggest a high-flow electric fan....