Unless your data logging the front ECM coolant temp gauge, you'll be seeing cylinder head temp from the passenger side sender. That is not a good indication of what the thermostat is doing.

For example mine with a 160° 'stat reads 165° when I data log and look at that front intake sender. My instrument panel shows 185° from the passenger side head sender.

 

If that's true, my fans are coming on backwards. The front fan comes on first. When I had the main fan programmed to come on at 195, the front one was coming on at 195. The rear fan wasn't coming on until the 205-208 range. (It was packaged as a 200-deg turn-on switch with 185 turn-off).

Maybe my ECM is seeing a different temp than the dash indicates. I'll have to monitor that. There are two temp sensors after all.

If the display reads 10-12 degrees higher than actual, then the aux fan switch is coming on WAY too early.

 

So yours is twenty-degrees off!!!! How did you decide which one is "right"?

 

Wax pellet[edit] AutomotiveMain article: Wax thermostatic element

Car engine thermostatPerhaps the best example of purely mechanical technology in widespread use today is the internal combustion engine cooling thermostat. These are used to maintain the temperature of the engine near its optimum operating temperature by regulating the flow of coolant to an air cooled radiator. This type of thermostat operates purely mechanically, using a sealed chamber containing a wax pellet that melts and expands at a set temperature. The expansion of a sealed chamber operates a rod which opens a valve when the operating temperature is exceeded. The operating temperature is fixed, but is determined by the specific composition of the wax. Once the optimum operating temperature is reached, the thermostat progressively increases or decreases its opening in response to temperature changes, dynamically balancing the coolant recirculation flow and coolant flow to the radiator to maintain the engine temperature in the optimum range


A thermostat unless you are steaming should never open all the way. It should float to maintain the correct water flow to keep the operating temps as close to the stats setting as possible. Of course your cooling fans need to be operating correctly

 

that may be part of your heat issues, aka slow to cool down

 

i have never ever seen the front fan work,i was thinking this the other day while installing the air dam , never ever , but what's happening now is that the rear fan (behind the radiator) works instantly when i start the car

 

Originally Posted by mako41
And the Dewitts double row drops right in, is made much better in the USA, (although costs over 3 times more) w/included wider rubber isolators with feet made to fit into them, & no shroud trimming required!

BTW...This thread was intended to be a budget radiator options AND performance thread. I didn't REALLY want to get into comparing budget options to $500+ radiators. OTOH, I think it'll be good to have performance observations gathered in one place.

If people are interested in adding empirical data for comparison, I think cubic inches, compression, radiator config, price, fan modifications (if any), and temps/conditions (seen on the road/track) would be the requirements to post. That's about as fair as it can get.[/QUOTE]

That was some clever editting, but my DeWitts radiator cost me $420.00, not really three times more!

I'm not so sure the two words performance and budget when it comes to C4 upgrades really work together ..... How much did you spend on your new 383 rebuilt engine?? Are you making double the horsepower of a stock engine? How much did you spend on that 383 to get there? Now you want to go cheap to cool the entire investment? Why? Doesn't make any sense to me.

To achieve the temps your looking for you need to install a higher CFM main engine fan (DeWitts makes one by the way, I think it pulls 2300CFM vs. the OEM 1800CFM, not cheap or "budget" by the way, but is plug & play and works very well. Install a 180* thermostat w/the hi-flow waterpump and double row aluminum radiator your already running. Program your main and auxillary fans to operate with the lower t-stat temps. and you should achieve the lower running temps your looking for.

 

I might get a higher CFM fan at some point. First, I need to determine the correct temperature reading and where the fans are coming on vs commanded temps.

You're WAY behind if you think I haven't already done all of the above.

I don't consider this a cheap solution if it works and it lasts. I would just consider myself a better shopper. FWIW, I spent a LOT of time looking for the best prices on the parts used to build my 383. And, I guarantee I found some very good prices on most components. The radiator was no different.

 

More info...

I went for a spin and ran a scan. During warm-up, the two sensors were up to 25-deg apart. The dash display is always higher.

After warm-up, the dash was displaying its usual 195. The ECM saw 180. As I drove the car awhile longer, the ECM temp gradually moved up to the 185-186 range. Meanwhile, the dash stayed in it's usual 195-200 range.

Instead of deciding which sensor is correct, now I'm thinking they both could be correct (or at least relatively correct). By that, it doesn't seem impossible that the physically higher sensor would read a higher temp. In fact, it seems probable.

That means I need to program fan temps based on what the ECM sees. I'm setting my main fan to turn on at 196 and turn off at 190. As for the aux fan, it's sensor may be calibrated a bit low. It's supposed to turn on at 200 and off at 185. I may have to accept it will run all the time OR buy another sensor....for a higher range. As for the thermostat, I still think it's at least 10-deg off...maybe 15. If the upper temp (dash temp) is really correct, then it's running hotter than intended. That's because the dash sensor is placed very near the thermostat. Thermostats are cheap so I could try another to verify.

After reprogramming the fans and running it again, I'll report back on the cooling observations (mostly in regard to the radiator's benefit).

 

I'm runing a 170* themostat w/ an OEM waterpump, DeWitts 2 row aluminum rad. & have my OEM main fan turn on at 175* and off at 170*. My aux. fan turns on at 210* and off at 185* On the hwy I can run all day long at my t-stat opening temp of 170*. In traffic on 90* plus days my temps never get above 200*. I don't see how you couldn't run the same, even with a higher heat producing 383.

 

Better shopper? Why, because you went for the cheap, made in China aluminum radiator, the one made to look like a DeWitts or Ron Davis one, but not really perform like one ........... Or because you spent alot of time researching your purchase?

I also spent alot of time researching my aluminum radiator, t-stat, and cooling fan temp activation settings. Went w/ the best and never looked back. I also achieved my lower running coolant temps right away, with none of the issues you seem to be facing. You sure that cheap made in China aluminum radiator isn't part of the problem?

 

I'd be inclined to agree. Funny how the guy that spends the MOST will squeel the loudest, not about what he paid, about how little YOU paid....He has to justify his bad deal somehow.

When someone feels the need to insult someone elses choices, it begs to question the motive...
trying to reassure themselves that spending more was better, or that their choices are better because they think they are better? Either way...its BS.

The focus should be on what the problem is, not what someone would like it to be.....

Having one of these "cheap, made in China" radiators myself.....that was made in Chicago, and installed for just over a yr now, I can tell you that I compared it side by saide to the DW and there is NO difference. If we had not leaned them each on their boxes they came in I would not have known which was which.
You keep telling yourself there is some difference, and I'll go to bed tonite knowing the truth. There IS a difference...about $250 ! !
My cheapo has less mfg overhead than DW or the other guys, so it can be sold for less and the vol sales make up for the fire-sale price. They sell so many they are back ordered half the time..
The cores are all mfg by someone else, welded together by who we decided to buy from,. and the tanks are maybe the ONLY thing thats actually made by our chosen seller.....I guess my tanks were either bigger than a big-name or they were thicker since I DID have to trim the rubber to fit it....damn. Or could it be that the big name part is smaller, and maybe holds 4 oz less coolant just so the owner does not have to risk amputation while trimming the rubber?

I was extremely dissappointed at the 2 minutes that it took me to snip 1/4" off the rubber mounting block in order to make my made in China (Chicago) mfg'd radiator fit in the mounts. I was ALSO very put out and bummed by the new cap, the chain,the new low coolant sensor, the full PLATE trans cooler instead of the candy *** 5/8" tube that comes in the (local made in the USA big name) radiator, and the welds that looked like they were poured in place with barely a ripple to ID them as welds....I was so pissed about the $250 that I did'nt HAVE to spend on paying the marketing and advertising that I kept it and left it in my pocket. Damn.

ALL that money I could have paid to some mfg that had to raise his sales price to cover the cost of advertising in every medium (web, mags, radio etc) in the country.... or some other over-priced store that basically had to pay their huge advertising budget for the identical product, all just so I could justify tossing money like I actually had some to throw away.

NOW...
All BS aside,
When someone makes a choice, why would anyone condem that with cheap shots at the product or the choice? Especially when those slinging the most BS have absolutely ZERO experience with the alternative...that I am using as well....
When you sling that much BS around, some is bound to get on you....

My (China made) POS cheap radiator dropped my temps LAST summer from 240 to just 210-220....This yr the temps are just as good and the ambient is 10-15 degrees higher. I can cruise at 189-195 with a/c all day long when its 105 degrees ambient with street surface temps of 140.
I sit in traffic at 220 now, in these worst of conditions instead of 245 and climbing like it used to.
So....I guess I am to conclude that MY purchase of a cheapo
Chinese made (in Chicago) radiator for less than 1/2 of the guy with the BIG advertising overhead, was such a bad idea that I should'nt mention it to anyone. When in fact I've known at least 6 or 7 other C4 owners that bought the same radiator and had the exact same results. A couple LT guys...
a few L98 guys. Same result. About a 20 degree drop (with no other cooling mods) and much much faster cooling and lower over-all operating temps.

 

The sensor that the dash shows the temp of is in the right side of the block near the head and the ECM receives temp info from a sensor at the front of the engine block. Why you think those two sensor MUST read the same is not understandable. A larger portion of engine heat into the coolant comes from the heads which are closer to the sensor read by the dash readout. The thermostat reacts to the temperature of the coolant near the front of the engine block which is where the thermostat is located. You have a 180 stat and your ECM reports 180-185 coolant temps. I don't see anything wrong with either temperature and neither temperature is harmful to your engine. I think the best thing you can do is drive your car and stop worrying. I have driven my 87 everyday for 21 years with the stock 195 stat, the engine is fine and has 240k miles on it. You need to stop being a worry wart IMHO!

 

If someone buys something cheap when everyone says it wont work, guy buys it then bitches, well tough chit on him.

Sounds like this decision worked out for Gregg. Heck anythings better than the stock C4 radiator. Who cares if the welds arent as pretty really?

On the made in usa/saving jobs thing yes I agree with that but when you gotta have a part now and in a pinch then you do what you gotta do.

 

Gregg When I replaced my engine this winter (ZZ4) not that it matters. I noticed that the temp gauge reading was a lot lower then it was prior. When I replaced the engine I did replace all the sensors except I forgot about the temp sensor for the ecm. I hooked up the scanner and the fan was coming on right at 228 where it should be but gauge reading was like 160. I shot it with my infor red and it was reading close to the ecm temp on the scanner. I installed another temp sensor and that got me close to the ecm reading that seems to be the correct reading. Right now at 195 my temp gauge is reading 205 or so. I do not know what % that is off but I am confrontable in knowing that I am close to the correct temp. So just a though you may want to replace the temp sensor to see if that makes up the differenc even if you have a new one in. PS I also went with a different brand just because the parts store was closer then the other.

 

Back in post 29, I posted this. My instinct was correct.

I saw this coming because every other poster reporting about a "budget" radiator install gets bombarded with a put-down or two from DeWitt's clients/followers. It's the same as if someone posting about head-porting gets slammed for not buying from a popular high-end head manufacturer.

If we want to post empirical results and compare bang-for-the-buck, that's fine. Otherwise, these "I'm better than you posts" aren't very constructive. If you want to get into that, I'm going to assume spending less money for the same function is what most people would choose. C4's aren't getting more expensive, they're getting cheaper and cheaper. More and more owners are going to be budget-minded and need to know how to find products priced accordingly.

 

I did the same thing. The PS temp sender and the O2 sensor were the only two sensors I didn't replace with my build. I reused the O2 sensor because it was barely used. The PS temp sender was my oversight. Figured I'd try it to make sure it didn't work. In my past experience, [oil and temp] sensor failures usually presented with leaks vs failure to operate.

OTOH, I think there's a valid reason why the two won't read the same. I'm trying to remember the water circulation path in a SBC. That would help confirm which I think would show the higher temp.

If fluid goes in the top of the radiator, I'd expect the top sensor to be higher. If fluid goes into the bottom (which seems much less likely), the head sensor might be higher. Of course, it could also be higher thru it's closer proximity to the cylinders.

 

Thanks Ron....Funny, we don't complain nearly as much about buying Chinese-made Eagle or Scat products, do we? I'm sure other products should be included as well.

 

Wholly chit Greg.....................Lit the fire under more than 1 *** in the last 24 hours with your Budget Champion aluminum radiator swap.

I would go watch some TV for a while & let them get bored without you commenting back.

When I get tired of C4 I watch COP TV shows.....they are my favorite.

Purchase a used ford Taurus electric fan like BOB did for his 87 coupe.
supposed to be the hot ticket for the C4 L98 TPI single electric main cooling fan.

Hook up a toggle bypass switch & 50 amp relay for you fan.
Work it manual when desired.
how I have it set on my 87 vert & it keeps the temps down when at Mickey "D's" drive through or in traffic.
195 F guaranteed with a 195 Napa "T" stat I use.

Your 89 is no exotic Ferrari car.
a toggle switch is easy to hide under the driver's side upper hush panel.

Brian

 

IIRC, the main fan comes on when the ECM is in "fault" mode. Do a scan with your tunerpro to see if there's any codes.

The aux fan temp is pretty high. Seems like it's turn-on point is 238 or thereabouts. It's not surprising you haven't seen it run much.