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Budget 2-row radiator comparison
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,221
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From: Overland Park Kansas
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (appearance mods)
C4 of Year Winner (appearance mods) 2019
Thanks. I'm not sure if it does since the website says this item is no longer available. Plus, my existing fan is still working. From other posts in this thread, it seemed that an upgrade to the main fan would be the first [fan upgrade] to consider.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 944
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From: Mesa Az
Nice write up 
Below are some picture of the 3 row version of the same Champion radiator swap I did a while back. I too had to make modifications to the rubber mounts in the same fashion but instead of cutting the upper portion of the shroud back for the radiator cap to clear I just changed it out for one that had smaller grip tabs. Total swap/clean up time was ~ 4 hours start to finish.
Stock radiator setup:
Stock VS 3 Row Champ:
Champion rad dropped in:
so wait, let me get this strait, they make a drop in 3 core radiator? with no modifications whatsoever?
- I am marking this my favorites file for later when summer comes back around next year. this will be my next engine mod over a new set of headers.....
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 9,272
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 9,272
Likes: 17
bout $230 average price, work good.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 9,272
Likes: 17
I'm the one that 'suggested' this.
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,221
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From: Overland Park Kansas
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (appearance mods)
C4 of Year Winner (appearance mods) 2019
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,221
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From: Overland Park Kansas
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (appearance mods)
C4 of Year Winner (appearance mods) 2019
Former Vendor
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 5,593
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From: Brighton
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Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2003
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From: Overland Park Kansas
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (appearance mods)
C4 of Year Winner (appearance mods) 2019
Kinda made me wonder why they even made the 3-row unit. Maybe it will be phased out since this AE model is supposed to be "new"?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,050
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From: Phoenix AZ
2021 C4 of the Year - Modified Finalist
I did what Greg did a year and a half ago. It worked out really well. My temps dropped, changing only the radiator:
winter, 219 to 183
Summer, 235 to 214
That's what the gauge reads after getting off the freeway and driving through heavy traffic for 2 miles and parking it in the garage.
winter, 219 to 183
Summer, 235 to 214
That's what the gauge reads after getting off the freeway and driving through heavy traffic for 2 miles and parking it in the garage.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,765
Likes: 5
I have checked your website in the past & browsed through all Corvette Radiators you make.
From what I have been told in the past,
The 1967 - 1969 L88 & ZL-1 427 radiators were the best to have to keep a high horsepower BBC cool or SBC pushing 600 to 1,000 + Horsepower.
Do you have any guideline BTU ratings on radiators to go along with theoretical & measured H.P. ratings ?
Thanks,
Brian
Thread Starter
Race Director
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From: Overland Park Kansas
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (appearance mods)
C4 of Year Winner (appearance mods) 2019
I had actually considered that. Before doing so, I'd need to confirm the actual vs advertising on/off point of the MAMotorsports aux fan switch. Their ad says 200 (on) 185 (off). I think those points are lower with my unit.
If the DS head temps are similar to the temps shown by the dash display (PS sensor), it may be as much as 10-deg off. It may turn around 190. Maybe I'll get out the garden hose and see if I can even get it to shut off (and determine what temperature reading shuts it off.
If the DS head temps are similar to the temps shown by the dash display (PS sensor), it may be as much as 10-deg off. It may turn around 190. Maybe I'll get out the garden hose and see if I can even get it to shut off (and determine what temperature reading shuts it off.
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2003
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From: Overland Park Kansas
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (appearance mods)
C4 of Year Winner (appearance mods) 2019
This is one reason I didn't immediately assume a 3-row radiator (built in the same core depth) wouldn't be an improvement.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,765
Likes: 5
That's a good question. I have also been curious how it was determined that 1" rows are more efficient that smaller rows. If the tubes are smaller, one COULD conclude coolant would pass smaller tubes thru more slowly, having a better opportunity for temperature drop.
This is one reason I didn't immediately assume a 3-row radiator (built in the same core depth) wouldn't be an improvement.
This is one reason I didn't immediately assume a 3-row radiator (built in the same core depth) wouldn't be an improvement.
See what he has to say tomorrow,
Tom Dewitt himself.
The L88 & ZL-1 factory radiators are constructed like none other.
They look like Giant Earle Racing Oil Coolers like used on an Indy Car.
Former Vendor
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 5,593
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From: Brighton
Guys, I don't want to hyjack this thread as it was to be about the budget (import) radiators. I plan on writing up something about the design differences later so you might be able to justify spending more for a USA made item.
But briefly, the more surface area in direct contact with the fin, the better the cooling. That's why aluminum radiators use wider tubes than the older copper ones and that was the comparison I was trying to make above with the 1.87" vs 2.0. Why do they make a (3) three row? The only reason is to confuse people to think three is better than two.
Here is a full write up on the subject
http://www.dewitts.com/pages/whyaluminum.asp
As far as BTU ratings go, we are actually the only ones that will tell you that. If you download our catalog you will see each radiator has the rating for both the OE unit and our replacement.
http://www.dewitts.com/download/catalog.pdf
The plate type radiators used on the older L88s is a whole diffferent design and that will just confuse a lot of people on this section so I'll skip that one.
But briefly, the more surface area in direct contact with the fin, the better the cooling. That's why aluminum radiators use wider tubes than the older copper ones and that was the comparison I was trying to make above with the 1.87" vs 2.0. Why do they make a (3) three row? The only reason is to confuse people to think three is better than two.
Here is a full write up on the subject
http://www.dewitts.com/pages/whyaluminum.asp
As far as BTU ratings go, we are actually the only ones that will tell you that. If you download our catalog you will see each radiator has the rating for both the OE unit and our replacement.
http://www.dewitts.com/download/catalog.pdf
The plate type radiators used on the older L88s is a whole diffferent design and that will just confuse a lot of people on this section so I'll skip that one.
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,082
Likes: 3
From: Conowingo Maryland
Tom It would be great if more people would read the information on your site and others about basics of the automotive cooling system. Still tons of people on this form who do not want to understand the operation of the thermostat. They think oncce it is open for the day its job is over. They do not get that it is to contoll the temp of the engine just like the stat in your house.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,043
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From: Tampa Florida
Well, I did say Champion recommended the 2-row vs the 3-row option when I asked about cooling ability. Specifically, employees at Champion.com said to "save my money" as the 3-row unit wouldn't provide additional cooling.
Kinda made me wonder why they even made the 3-row unit. Maybe it will be phased out since this AE model is supposed to be "new"?
Kinda made me wonder why they even made the 3-row unit. Maybe it will be phased out since this AE model is supposed to be "new"?
GREGGPENN installed the Champion EC829 (2 row version) not sure exactly what he paid though.
I installed the CC829 (3 row version - paid ~$200 USD shipped).
I have no idea what the tube width is/was or even if one size works better than the other - but looking at the photos of both it appears the CC829 is noticeably wider in the "fin" area.
GREGGPENN's photo of his EC829 2 row version:
engle1147's photo of the CC829 3 row version:
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 81,241
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From: altered state
St. Jude Donor '05
Tom not to hijack..
Have a 3 row brass (top/bottom tank) 16x24 rad in a 67 Abody
With a single spal (either 1700 or 2100 cfm) it seemed to cool a 550hp sbc Ok
New mill will be closer to 600.
Radiator Ok or will need upgrade? Fan?
Recommendations?
Have a 3 row brass (top/bottom tank) 16x24 rad in a 67 Abody
With a single spal (either 1700 or 2100 cfm) it seemed to cool a 550hp sbc Ok
New mill will be closer to 600.
Radiator Ok or will need upgrade? Fan?
Recommendations?
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,221
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From: Overland Park Kansas
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (appearance mods)
C4 of Year Winner (appearance mods) 2019
Well - it seems that the Champion 829 series radiators are an effective low cost cooling solution for the budget minded C4 owner. I have no idea if the 3 row unit works better or more efficiently than the 2 row....but overall I'm extremely pleased with the unit I've choosen/installed/run.
GREGGPENN installed the Champion EC829 (2 row version) not sure exactly what he paid though.
I installed the CC829 (3 row version - paid ~$200 USD shipped).
I have no idea what the tube width is/was or even if one size works better than the other - but looking at the photos of both it appears the CC829 is noticeably wider in the "fin" area.
GREGGPENN installed the Champion EC829 (2 row version) not sure exactly what he paid though.
I installed the CC829 (3 row version - paid ~$200 USD shipped).
I have no idea what the tube width is/was or even if one size works better than the other - but looking at the photos of both it appears the CC829 is noticeably wider in the "fin" area.