Test Pipe, anybody?
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2021
Posts: 1,736
Likes: 386
From: People's Republic of Nueva York
Unless they cut that organization off at the knees it's only as good as the administration.
I'm happy to see what they're doing right now, but if it isn't addressed with law it's only as permanent as the next election.
I'm happy to see what they're doing right now, but if it isn't addressed with law it's only as permanent as the next election.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,876
Likes: 764
From: Sligo PA
Another issue is state law. Even if the EPA stops enforcing draconian emissions laws it doesn't do a thing to state law. In PA you still have to have a catalytic converter, pass smog in certain counties and can't delete a diesel. Most states have similar laws. I agree that this is an awesome first step. But unfortunately it doesn't mean much, because as easily as it was done it can be undone.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,876
Likes: 764
From: Sligo PA
Does it look like this would fit?
Or does it look like this would fit?
It wouldn't surprise me if at some point someone put an early C4 exhaust on your 89. I found a manual 87 in the salvage yard one time that someone had stuffed a Dana 36 into.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 167
Likes: 33
From: Connecticut, USA
This was a one-owner car, so it's highly improbable this was changed after manufacture. Especially knowing about the mechanical abilities of the previous owner.
When things slow down here, I'll go underneath and take some pics and measure.
What did 88 look like? Did it have flanges on both ends?
When things slow down here, I'll go underneath and take some pics and measure.
What did 88 look like? Did it have flanges on both ends?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,876
Likes: 764
From: Sligo PA
This was a one-owner car, so it's highly improbable this was changed after manufacture. Especially knowing about the mechanical abilities of the previous owner.
When things slow down here, I'll go underneath and take some pics and measure.
What did 88 look like? Did it have flanges on both ends?
When things slow down here, I'll go underneath and take some pics and measure.
What did 88 look like? Did it have flanges on both ends?
Pro
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 532
Likes: 104
I don't think there is much of a market on test pipes for 30+ year vehicles when any muffler shop can just weld in a section of pipe.
The last car I replaced the cats on with straight sections of pipe (2001 Ford Crown Victoria) cost me $80 installed at a local muffler shop.
My 89 Corvette still has its cat, although I plugged the air tube when I removed the AIR system.
Last edited by auburn2; Mar 16, 2025 at 02:23 PM.
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Pro
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 532
Likes: 104
Another issue is state law. Even if the EPA stops enforcing draconian emissions laws it doesn't do a thing to state law. In PA you still have to have a catalytic converter, pass smog in certain counties and can't delete a diesel. Most states have similar laws. I agree that this is an awesome first step. But unfortunately it doesn't mean much, because as easily as it was done it can be undone.
There are certain localities in free states that require emissions testing because they failed EPA air quality standards. Atlanta Georgia is one of those.
Last edited by auburn2; Mar 16, 2025 at 02:32 PM.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 167
Likes: 33
From: Connecticut, USA
I don't think most states have laws like that. I think it is on the order of around 15-20 out of 50 states that have those kinds of laws. I think most states have little or no state laws on these things.
There are certain localities in free states that require emissions testing because they failed EPA air quality standards. Atlanta Georgia is one of those.
There are certain localities in free states that require emissions testing because they failed EPA air quality standards. Atlanta Georgia is one of those.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,876
Likes: 764
From: Sligo PA
I believe technically under Federal law it is illegal to remove functioning emissions equipment. It is not illegal to remove non-functional/malfunctioning emissions equipment, which would probably include most 1980s era OEM catalytic converters.
I don't think there is much of a market on test pipes for 30+ year vehicles when any muffler shop can just weld in a section of pipe.
I don't think there is much of a market on test pipes for 30+ year vehicles when any muffler shop can just weld in a section of pipe.
I don't think most states have laws like that. I think it is on the order of around 15-20 out of 50 states that have those kinds of laws. I think most states have little or no state laws on these things.
There are certain localities in free states that require emissions testing because they failed EPA air quality standards. Atlanta Georgia is one of those.
There are certain localities in free states that require emissions testing because they failed EPA air quality standards. Atlanta Georgia is one of those.
That's the point. As of last week, the EPA air standards for vehicles have been removed and CARB is dead. It's up to those States to change their laws to conform to new Federal standards. Those States that don't want to conform will be tested in court, and they will lose.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 6,940
Likes: 1,490
From: New Jersey
Since first posting in this thread I've sold several test pipes on ebay for 84 - 85's. I think the reason is the flanges are difficult to copy in a shop and the oval tubing needed. I figured even if I only sell a couple and make a couple bucks it was a fun project. Now that I have the CAD file for the flanges and a jig to make the test pipes I'll be making these for a long time. But I haven't sold a single test pipe for an 86-91. So you're probably right on that one. It's just a round tube with a ball flange on one end and a plate flange that could be easily copied by an exhaust shop.
Unfortunately here in PA we have all kinds of laws that copied California's. They don't affect me so much with my C4 anyway because of exemptions for antique cars. But I feel bad for all the guys who get caught trying to delete diesel trucks here.
I hope you're right. My only thought about this is I don't think they would lose. CARB wasn't found to be unconstitutional. The EPA is just dropping it. And because of that I think the law as is in PA would hold up in court. But who knows. I would love to see a day when there are no more safety or emission inspections here. They are both just a tax on the poor.
Unfortunately here in PA we have all kinds of laws that copied California's. They don't affect me so much with my C4 anyway because of exemptions for antique cars. But I feel bad for all the guys who get caught trying to delete diesel trucks here.
I hope you're right. My only thought about this is I don't think they would lose. CARB wasn't found to be unconstitutional. The EPA is just dropping it. And because of that I think the law as is in PA would hold up in court. But who knows. I would love to see a day when there are no more safety or emission inspections here. They are both just a tax on the poor.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,876
Likes: 764
From: Sligo PA
My issue with this whole scheme is seeing a guy limp a car or truck along just trying to get to work to provide for his family. He can't afford to get it inspected because of some arbitrary safety standard that he can't afford to fix. So what happens? He gets pulled over and given a $300 fine that he can't afford to pay. People who can afford new cars don't have this problem. So that's why I say that PA's safety inspection system is just a tax on the poor. The state makes money from the citations and from selling the stickers to the inspection stations.
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2021
Posts: 1,736
Likes: 386
From: People's Republic of Nueva York
I believe technically under Federal law it is illegal to remove functioning emissions equipment. It is not illegal to remove non-functional/malfunctioning emissions equipment, which would probably include most 1980s era OEM catalytic converters.
I don't think there is much of a market on test pipes for 30+ year vehicles when any muffler shop can just weld in a section of pipe.
The last car I replaced the cats on with straight sections of pipe (2001 Ford Crown Victoria) cost me $80 installed at a local muffler shop.
My 89 Corvette still has its cat, although I plugged the air tube when I removed the AIR system.
I don't think there is much of a market on test pipes for 30+ year vehicles when any muffler shop can just weld in a section of pipe.
The last car I replaced the cats on with straight sections of pipe (2001 Ford Crown Victoria) cost me $80 installed at a local muffler shop.
My 89 Corvette still has its cat, although I plugged the air tube when I removed the AIR system.
Also, as far as I can see there is no rollback of existing laws. It's rules that are pending or in development that they're trying to scale back. So don't go start making diesel delete kits just yet.
Federal enforcement of the existing laws is another matter.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 167
Likes: 33
From: Connecticut, USA
Since first posting in this thread I've sold several test pipes on ebay for 84 - 85's. I think the reason is the flanges are difficult to copy in a shop and the oval tubing needed. I figured even if I only sell a couple and make a couple bucks it was a fun project. Now that I have the CAD file for the flanges and a jig to make the test pipes I'll be making these for a long time. But I haven't sold a single test pipe for an 86-91. So you're probably right on that one. It's just a round tube with a ball flange on one end and a plate flange that could be easily copied by an exhaust shop.
Unfortunately here in PA we have all kinds of laws that copied California's. They don't affect me so much with my C4 anyway because of exemptions for antique cars. But I feel bad for all the guys who get caught trying to delete diesel trucks here.
I hope you're right. My only thought about this is I don't think they would lose. CARB wasn't found to be unconstitutional. The EPA is just dropping it. And because of that I think the law as is in PA would hold up in court. But who knows. I would love to see a day when there are no more safety or emission inspections here. They are both just a tax on the poor.
Unfortunately here in PA we have all kinds of laws that copied California's. They don't affect me so much with my C4 anyway because of exemptions for antique cars. But I feel bad for all the guys who get caught trying to delete diesel trucks here.
I hope you're right. My only thought about this is I don't think they would lose. CARB wasn't found to be unconstitutional. The EPA is just dropping it. And because of that I think the law as is in PA would hold up in court. But who knows. I would love to see a day when there are no more safety or emission inspections here. They are both just a tax on the poor.
Once other Blue States see CARB as not cool, it's up to them to change course and be like the rest of the country. I want to live like a free American and not have tons of restrictive, expensive regulations and laws smothering me. Some people need to be told what to do from the time they wake up til the time they go to bed, because they can't, or are afraid to, make their own decisions, therefore need someone (maybe a bureaucrat) to tell them how to put their underpants on.
But....each to their own.
If I want a restriction in my exhaust, I'll stick a potato in the tailpipe.
If everyone changes to Electric Vehicles, our bridges will collapse from the weight. They are already stressed and badly in need of repair (Pete Buttigieg).
Last edited by spaceweasel; Mar 17, 2025 at 11:58 AM.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 167
Likes: 33
From: Connecticut, USA
Since first posting in this thread I've sold several test pipes on ebay for 84 - 85's. I think the reason is the flanges are difficult to copy in a shop and the oval tubing needed. I figured even if I only sell a couple and make a couple bucks it was a fun project. Now that I have the CAD file for the flanges and a jig to make the test pipes I'll be making these for a long time. But I haven't sold a single test pipe for an 86-91. So you're probably right on that one. It's just a round tube with a ball flange on one end and a plate flange that could be easily copied by an exhaust shop...
My '89 has those rectangular flanges at both ends. and no ball flange. My car was one owner, and I'm trying to figure this out. When I purchased the car in 1999, the car was bone stock. Everything was just like it came from the factory.
NEVERMIND, FOUND YOUR EBAY AD.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,876
Likes: 764
From: Sligo PA
Can I have the exact dimensions of your 84-85 pipe, with a photo?
My '89 has those rectangular flanges at both ends. and no ball flange. My car was one owner, and I'm trying to figure this out. When I purchased the car in 1999, the car was bone stock. Everything was just like it came from the factory.
NEVERMIND, FOUND YOUR EBAY AD.
My '89 has those rectangular flanges at both ends. and no ball flange. My car was one owner, and I'm trying to figure this out. When I purchased the car in 1999, the car was bone stock. Everything was just like it came from the factory.
NEVERMIND, FOUND YOUR EBAY AD.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 167
Likes: 33
From: Connecticut, USA
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,876
Likes: 764
From: Sligo PA
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 167
Likes: 33
From: Connecticut, USA