Overheating problems Poll and solutions
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,461
Likes: 161
From: Las Vegas Nevada
St. Jude Donor '08
FMIC is not worth the headaches
You know, from reading all the responses in this post, it seems obvious that the single front mounted intercooler is not worth the problems it creates with cooling. I don’t want to get into which setup makes more power. By looking at them both, it would make sense that the FMIC with shorter tubing would make a little more power, but is the little extra power worth all the headaches everyone is having with them? To me, it is just not worth it. JMHO
Thanks,
Clayton from Las Vegas
Thanks,
Clayton from Las Vegas
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,088
Likes: 1,829
From: Metro Detroit Michigan
Originally Posted by LV Vette
You know, from reading all the responses in this post, it seems obvious that the single front mounted intercooler is not worth the problems it creates with cooling.
And there are posts from people with twin side mounts who say they are having a problem. There seem to be some patterns regarding brands............
Heat may become an issue any time power is increased.
A percentage of the energy from burning fuel creates power, and a larger percentage creates waste heat. Making more power means that there's more waste heat to get rid of. Even bone stock cars which operate for extended periods at high power levels (road racing) have
heat issues.
I'm not sure that spacing the intercooler from the radiator to allow air flow between is a good overall solution. It may allow higher air pressure and cooler air at the front of the radiator, but would also create higher pressure on the back side of the cooler, resulting in less flow through the cooler and resulting in higher intake air temperatures.
Safety Car
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,615
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From: waterloo ontario
St. Jude Donor '08
This is weird. I talked to Slowhawk and he says he rarely has any of his cutomers complain about heat from Andy's setup. I also have talked to Doug from ECS and there intercooler is even larger than Andy's and cover the entire front end. He says he too rarely see's any complaints and when there are it's because the rad, condenser and intercooler are not spaced properly or are dirty.
Safety Car
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,615
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From: waterloo ontario
St. Jude Donor '08
A while ago I posted pics of my condenser asking if anyone thought that his could be the reason for any over heating issues. Here is the thread:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1428327
I wish Andy or Doug would jump in on this thread and offer there thoughts solutions.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1428327
I wish Andy or Doug would jump in on this thread and offer there thoughts solutions.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,321
Likes: 0
From: Dallas Texas
Originally Posted by vetterdstr
I have this on my car... and I am getting a new one in a few days to modify 
and see if I can improve on what I already have.
VR
and see if I can improve on what I already have. VR
Shahram
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,461
Likes: 161
From: Las Vegas Nevada
St. Jude Donor '08
Originally Posted by Warp Factor
I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion. There are at least half a dozen responses (including the first 2) from people with single FMICs who say they're having no problem.
And there are posts from people with twin side mounts who say they are having a problem. There seem to be some patterns regarding brands............
Heat may become an issue any time power is increased.
A percentage of the energy from burning fuel creates power, and a larger percentage creates waste heat. Making more power means that there's more waste heat to get rid of. Even bone stock cars which operate for extended periods at high power levels (road racing) have
heat issues.
I'm not sure that spacing the intercooler from the radiator to allow air flow between is a good overall solution. It may allow higher air pressure and cooler air at the front of the radiator, but would also create higher pressure on the back side of the cooler, resulting in less flow through the cooler and resulting in higher intake air temperatures.
And there are posts from people with twin side mounts who say they are having a problem. There seem to be some patterns regarding brands............
Heat may become an issue any time power is increased.
A percentage of the energy from burning fuel creates power, and a larger percentage creates waste heat. Making more power means that there's more waste heat to get rid of. Even bone stock cars which operate for extended periods at high power levels (road racing) have
heat issues.
I'm not sure that spacing the intercooler from the radiator to allow air flow between is a good overall solution. It may allow higher air pressure and cooler air at the front of the radiator, but would also create higher pressure on the back side of the cooler, resulting in less flow through the cooler and resulting in higher intake air temperatures.
Thanks,
Clayton from Las Vegas
NCM, WSCC & SCC Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,900
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by LV Vette
Maybe I should correct my prior post. From reading many of the posts in the FI section, there are a lot more overheating problems with a front mount intercooler then the side mount twins. True that many FMIC have solved their cooling issues, but look what they have to go through to solve it. The side mount IC’s are just plain more conducive to better cooling. JMHO
Thanks,
Clayton from Las Vegas
Thanks,
Clayton from Las Vegas
If I used something on the side, that prevented airflow to my brakes, then I would have considerable heat to mitigate coming into the brakes, suspension and motor from that direction.
Last edited by #001 2001 Z06; Jul 28, 2006 at 09:55 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 28,753
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From: San Jose/Bear Valley CA
CA Events Coordinator
Originally Posted by LV Vette
Maybe I should correct my prior post. From reading many of the posts in the FI section, there are a lot more overheating problems with a front mount intercooler then the side mount twins. True that many FMIC have solved their cooling issues, but look what they have to go through to solve it. The side mount IC’s are just plain more conducive to better cooling. JMHO
The Twin IC LPE systems are different because they are ENGINEERED to work. I for one would rather do cooling mods to a single IC than switch back to a twin that couldnt cool itself. ching... ching...
VR
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Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2002
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From: Aurora IL
St. Jude Donor '06
Originally Posted by vetterdstr
I started out with the twin intercoolers on my car. They didnt cool down anything nor did they even cool themselves after a few WOT runs. The Twin IC LPE systems are different because they are ENGINEERED to work. I for one would rather do cooling mods to a single IC than switch back to a twin that couldnt cool itself.
ching... ching...
VR
The Twin IC LPE systems are different because they are ENGINEERED to work. I for one would rather do cooling mods to a single IC than switch back to a twin that couldnt cool itself. ching... ching...
VR
VR.............I was under my car today and the more I look the more I see why IC works as well as it does
I still think the Tiger Shark front end is the only way to go
time to drive gota
Safety Car
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,615
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From: waterloo ontario
St. Jude Donor '08
I've been toying with an idea since I saw Andy's new setup and this is what it is. First off we need 2 aftermarket airbridges-like the one Jim Halltech sells. One would be the regular end the goes from the TB to the MAf. The other would be the end that he sells for the TRAP. The trap end would go into the superchager and the regular end would go into the TB. This would allow the the rad to be raise back to stock or at least very close. It will probably need some rigging to get the MAF to join the intercooler but with the silicone couplers and stuff out there I'm sure i can figure something out. I think this may work so i have emailed Jim Hall and I'm just waiting to see how much for 2 airbridges. The all that's left is something to seal off the area so the intercooler condenser and rad are sealed to picking up air only from the open area where the black cover goes. I think something on an angle would work better. As soon as I can get the airbridges I'm going to start working on this-I'll let you guys know.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,118
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Originally Posted by Z06GMAN
I still think the Tiger Shark front end is the only way to go time to drive gota ...and if you move the intercooler into the TS nose, your temps (IAT and coolant) will radically drop....mine dropped 40-50 degrees on hot days. GM designed the radiator cavity to cool a stock n/a motor...placing the intercooler there reduces that volume and potential cooling.VR..the original twins were too small for anything but a stock n/a motor....but the new ones are almost 100% larger in volume. The only answer is to see a side by side road test of IATs on the same car with a FMIC and then the new ATI high flow twins...say from ambients of 85-100+ degrees.
Last edited by HIGHRPM; Jul 28, 2006 at 05:08 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,475
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From: Port Arthur, Texas 77642
Originally Posted by HIGHRPM
...and if you move the intercooler into the TS nose, your temps (IAT and coolant) will radically drop....mine dropped 40-50 degrees on hot days. GM designed the radiator cavity to cool a stock n/a motor...placing the intercooler there reduces that volume and potential cooling.VR..the original twins were too small for anything but a stock n/a motor....but the new ones are almost 100% larger in volume. The only answer is to see a side by side road test of IATs on the same car with a FMIC and then the new ATI high flow twins...say from ambients of 85-100+ degrees.
I don't know how many TigerShark front ends are out there but I do know they are much better for airflow than factory "C5" design. I have a TS & would immediatly purchase an intercooler for my application if I knew what & where to buy. Which intercooler do you have, what dimensions, & how much did it cost. I saw the pictures of your setup & it looks OPTIMAL! Scotty
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2005
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From: Las Vegas Nevada
St. Jude Donor '08
Originally Posted by #001 2001 Z06
I used something on the side, that prevented airflow to my brakes, then I would have considerable heat to mitigate coming into the brakes, suspension and motor from that direction.
Originally Posted by vetterdstr
I started out with the twin intercoolers on my car. They didnt cool down anything nor did they even cool themselves after a few WOT runs. The Twin IC LPE systems are different because they are ENGINEERED to work. I for one would rather do cooling mods to a single IC than switch back to a twin that couldnt cool itself.
The Twin IC LPE systems are different because they are ENGINEERED to work. I for one would rather do cooling mods to a single IC than switch back to a twin that couldnt cool itself.Thanks,
Clayton from Las Vegas
NCM, WSCC & SCC Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,900
Likes: 1
Clayton, I made a grammar error previously and a correction above.
I tried to take good pictures of my brake package & suspension. To dark. I am going to need a lot of professional lighting to get pictures of it.
I am not big fan at all on blocking airflow to the front brakes in any way. If you do that, then you have two new very hot heat sources to deal with and brake fade as well after hit them once.
I just put a shroud between my radiator and intercooler, the car runs 180-192 now. 192 under full boost. Fans kick on at 190. 200-213 max now with the a/c on full blast.
HighRPM is albsolutely correct on this "placing the intercooler there reduces that volume and potential cooling." Anything in front of motor obstructs air flow in the engine compartment and may even contribute to producing heat.
I tried to take good pictures of my brake package & suspension. To dark. I am going to need a lot of professional lighting to get pictures of it.
I am not big fan at all on blocking airflow to the front brakes in any way. If you do that, then you have two new very hot heat sources to deal with and brake fade as well after hit them once.
I just put a shroud between my radiator and intercooler, the car runs 180-192 now. 192 under full boost. Fans kick on at 190. 200-213 max now with the a/c on full blast.
HighRPM is albsolutely correct on this "placing the intercooler there reduces that volume and potential cooling." Anything in front of motor obstructs air flow in the engine compartment and may even contribute to producing heat.
Last edited by #001 2001 Z06; Jul 29, 2006 at 02:22 AM.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,461
Likes: 161
From: Las Vegas Nevada
St. Jude Donor '08
Originally Posted by #001 2001 Z06
Clayton, I made a grammar error previously and a correction above.
I tried to take good pictures of my brake package & suspension. To dark. I am going to need a lot of professional lighting to get picutres of it.
I am not big fan at all on blocking airflow to the front brakes in any way. If you do that, then you have two new very hot heat sources to deal with and brake fade as well after hit them once.
I just put a shroud between my radiator and intercooler, the car runs 180-192 now. 192 under full boost. Fans kick on at 190. 200-213 max now with the a/c on full blast.
HighRPM is albsolutely correct on this "placing the intercooler there reduces that volume and potential cooling." Anything in front of motor obstructs air flow in the engine compartment and may even contribute to producing heat.
I tried to take good pictures of my brake package & suspension. To dark. I am going to need a lot of professional lighting to get picutres of it.
I am not big fan at all on blocking airflow to the front brakes in any way. If you do that, then you have two new very hot heat sources to deal with and brake fade as well after hit them once.
I just put a shroud between my radiator and intercooler, the car runs 180-192 now. 192 under full boost. Fans kick on at 190. 200-213 max now with the a/c on full blast.
HighRPM is albsolutely correct on this "placing the intercooler there reduces that volume and potential cooling." Anything in front of motor obstructs air flow in the engine compartment and may even contribute to producing heat.
Thanks,
Clayton from Las Vegas
Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,706
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From: Valrico Florida
After reading all of this I am thinking I may need to investigate on all I can do for my upcoming FFHP single turbo setup. I know I need the heat extractor hood, but I am going to get that front screened license plate as well. I already have vents in my air dams. I live in Florida and it can get pretty hot.
Team Owner
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From: San Jose/Bear Valley CA
CA Events Coordinator
Originally Posted by LV Vette
I agree with you 100%, but some people love the FMIC. If they want to deal with the cooling issues, so be it. I will be using the 4.5” twins with an alky system for safety purposes. So if I make 25 less HP, so what, my engine will run cooler and longer.
Thanks,
Clayton from Las Vegas
Thanks,
Clayton from Las Vegas
Life Time NCM #2196
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 82,592
Likes: 1,710
From: Converse TX
Seems that what my mechanic did with modifying the intercooler setup and providing a space of 1" between the condensor, my DeWitts, opening up the fog light area and installing the LG license plate screen has put my single intercooler A&A laydown setup in the non-issue category. Had it out twice in the last week and both days temps hovering around 100 with high humidty both killers for FI. On the first day I was out running 3 back to back pulls max temp 199 oil 207 and then back into town in traffic 207, 215 and on Wed again on the highway 199 after a pull to 140+ and then back down to 194 on the cruise to the dyno to watch a friend who installed headers and cam for his tune. Non issue for me, and I plan on a Hill Country run today and I will report back the max temps as the above temps will be with us today and I plan on lots of boost and different speeds as the terrain will dictate the fun of my boosted runs this afternoon. Even a properly setup A&A kit will work fine with a single intercooler. Just my 2c
Former Vendor
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,876
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From: Las Vegas NV
St. Jude Donor '06 & '12
Originally Posted by LV Vette
Maybe I should correct my prior post. From reading many of the posts in the FI section, there are a lot more overheating problems with a front mount intercooler then the side mount twins. True that many FMIC have solved their cooling issues, but look what they have to go through to solve it. The side mount IC’s are just plain more conducive to better cooling. JMHO
Thanks,
Clayton from Las Vegas
Thanks,
Clayton from Las Vegas
Currently, I have the Kenne Bell S/C and with the placement of the heat exchanger (right in front of the radiator) my car is running hot again. The good thing about this setup is that I am able to order the Tigershark front fascia and actually install a LARGER heat exchanger in the nose itself. This will virtually eliminate any heat issues.
This is NOT able to be done with any of the FMIC systems in our extremely hot climates.
The best thing you could have done is gone with the twin I/C configuration.