dreaded 1514 code
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,715
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From: Tinker till it blows... then back it off a notch, maybe!!
St. Jude Donor '08
Nicely said Nick, I must say if I had to pick 3 people that weren't termed "tuners" from the forum to tune my car it would be you, yoskin, and RJ. I think your alls solution is the only "right" one with a stock PCM, in order for everything to jive straight Nick probably needs a FAST system or some equivalent. A cable TB would not even cross my mind...
And I agree with RJ, at least 102 probably even higher
And I agree with RJ, at least 102 probably even higher
My idea of tuning is to ebay the maf and intake manifold and slap a pd blower on it....
Otherwise is falls into the untunable category...
Sorry...old school sd tuner here...this vette stuff is fairly new to me...I'm a rookie...
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 8,863
Likes: 86
From: PA
St. Jude Donor '08
once off the lift i will literally drive 2 tanks fulls threw it....
i need to get it broken in...my rental is coming sooooooon!!!
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 8,863
Likes: 86
From: PA
St. Jude Donor '08
no doubt about Phil....i wanna try all possibilities before asking though.
i need to learn this stuff....from what i ve researched this looks to be the only work around. phil gets bugged alot and doesnt like spoon feeding people, which i understand. now rob if i lived near phil that would be a different story....my wife makes the BEST BUFFALO CHICKEN WINGS..
listening phil????
Premium Supporting Vendor
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 5,241
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From: Knoxville Tennessee
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 8,863
Likes: 86
From: PA
St. Jude Donor '08
the guys is to smart for me.....what mike theroizes that the 16bit pcm cannot handle the sliding decimel like the laters pcm can causing the the values to get ascude (gram/cly.) need him to jump on here.........
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,715
Likes: 0
From: Tinker till it blows... then back it off a notch, maybe!!
St. Jude Donor '08
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 8,863
Likes: 86
From: PA
St. Jude Donor '08
yes....apparently the packet used for the BE is very small causing some pretty bad delay.....using PE for enrichment.
look at this, i was hitting that grams/per cyl at only 13.X psi.
weird that the 1514 has 4.10 but yet its still enabled at the lower #
Found this on another site.....
"Check dynamic airflow.
If you are over 2.32 g/cyl you will get a 1514 no matter what you do to the 1514 table.
Drop your IFR and VE table by an equivelent amount (say 10 or 20%) and that will drop the dynamic airflow. If you still bang the limiter, go another 10%.
I have had the same problem on a 427 with a ProCharger F1R. I was getting a 1514 at 4000 RPM. It has 750cc RC injectors so my original IFR table started at 83 lbs/hr."
So then I checked your g/cyl on your log and it hit 2.45 when you had the issue (see attached pic).
I think it has to do with reaching the internal limits of what the pcm is programed to calculate, also when I loaded your file it said some of values were out of range on the boost ve, either way this would be worth a start.
look at this, i was hitting that grams/per cyl at only 13.X psi.
weird that the 1514 has 4.10 but yet its still enabled at the lower #
Found this on another site.....
"Check dynamic airflow.
If you are over 2.32 g/cyl you will get a 1514 no matter what you do to the 1514 table.
Drop your IFR and VE table by an equivelent amount (say 10 or 20%) and that will drop the dynamic airflow. If you still bang the limiter, go another 10%.
I have had the same problem on a 427 with a ProCharger F1R. I was getting a 1514 at 4000 RPM. It has 750cc RC injectors so my original IFR table started at 83 lbs/hr."
So then I checked your g/cyl on your log and it hit 2.45 when you had the issue (see attached pic).
I think it has to do with reaching the internal limits of what the pcm is programed to calculate, also when I loaded your file it said some of values were out of range on the boost ve, either way this would be worth a start.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,418
Likes: 1
From: Chicagoland Area IL
Some CPU details below...
Modular Architecture
*Central Processing Unit (CPU32)
*Upward Object Code Compatible
*New Instructions for controller Applications
*32 Bit Archirecture
*Virtual Memory Implementation
*Loop Mode of Insruction Execution
*Table Lookup and Interpolate Instruction
*Improved Exception Handling for Controller Applications
*Trace on change of flow
*Hardware breakpoint signal, Background Debugging Mode (BDM)
*Fully static operation
*System Integration Module
Dedicated Micro-Engine Operating Independently of CPU32
*16 Independent Programmable Channels and Pins
*Any Channel can Perform Any Time Function
*Each Channel has Six or Eight 16 Bit Parameter Registers
*Each Timer Function May Be Assigned to More Than One Channel
*Two Timer Counter Registers with Programmable Prescalers
*Each Channel Can Be Synchronized to Either or Both Counters
*Selectable Channel Priority Levels
From http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/...468rH3DgbNyDvb .
The CPU is 32 Bit but external data path is 16 bit (ram/Flash/misc...) although 8/16/32 bit read/write is not a problem.
Now the Micro Engine or TPU (Time processing unit) is what tracks engine angle (cam/crank), fires injectors and coils... is also 16 bit. The TPU if you read the manual, it was intended primarily for automotive use (engine control) and has native instructions (micro coded) to support reluctor wheel based angle detection and so on...
Now I have worked with MC68332 in the past on a R&D project so I do know it somewhat.
What I had mentioned to Nick Y was that there may be some sort of integer math based limitation. The 68332 is not a floating point processor and table lookup and interpolate instructions are 16 bit if I remember correctly, so some of the critical math, may and likely is 16 bit integer based especially if being passed to and from TPU.
It is not inconceivable that what engineers had as a design spec only supported X values (mass flow, fuel, RPM...). Or by putting putting in values that are beyond the scope of original design spec, calculations may be bouncing off max trap values or even math overflows resulting bogus outputs or results.
Again speculation on my part, but have seen it far too many times with integer based math. The reason I'm thinking this is, it's big engines with big boost that run into this problem capable of 2-3 times the horsepower PCM code was originally written for.
I won't get into details pertaining to integer based math, but can tell you if some values double it's not inconceivable that a math overflow can result in a complex equation, which is typically trapped, but still result is incorrect value and unwanted operation or error can result.
***Disclaimer*** I am not a programmer but have had to clean up others messes... my all time favorite is not trapping for divide by zero (it's infinite).
Mike
Last edited by Skunkworks; Oct 3, 2007 at 03:33 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,586
Likes: 2
From: Bardstown Kentucky
The PCM CPU (microprocessor) is old Motorola MC68332 variant now Freesclae.
Some CPU details below...
Modular Architecture
*Central Processing Unit (CPU32)
*Upward Object Code Compatible
*New Instructions for controller Applications
*32 Bit Archirecture
*Virtual Memory Implementation
*Loop Mode of Insruction Execution
*Table Lookup and Interpolate Instruction
*Improved Exception Handling for Controller Applications
*Trace on change of flow
*Hardware breakpoint signal, Background Debugging Mode (BDM)
*Fully static operation
*System Integration Module
Dedicated Micro-Engine Operating Independently of CPU32
*16 Independent Programmable Channels and Pins
*Any Channel can Perform Any Time Function
*Each Channel has Six or Eight 16 Bit Parameter Registers
*Each Timer Function May Be Assigned to More Than One Channel
*Two Timer Counter Registers with Programmable Prescalers
*Each Channel Can Be Synchronized to Either or Both Counters
*Selectable Channel Priority Levels
From http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/...468rH3DgbNyDvb .
The CPU is 32 Bit but external data path is 16 bit (ram/Flash/misc...) although 8/16/32 bit read/write is not a problem.
Now the Micro Engine or TPU (Time processing unit) is what tracks engine angle (cam/crank), fires injectors and coils... is also 16 bit. The TPU if you read the manual, it was intended primarily for automotive use (engine control) and has native instructions (micro coded) to support reluctor wheel based angle detection and so on...
Now I have worked with MC68332 in the past on a R&D project so I do know it somewhat.
What I had mentioned to Nick Y was that there may be some sort of integer math based limitation. The 68332 is not a floating point processor and table lookup and interpolate instructions are 16 bit if I remember correctly, so some of the critical math, may and likely is 16 bit integer based especially if being passed to and from TPU.
It is not inconceivable that what engineers had as a design spec only supported X values (mass flow, fuel, RPM...). Or by putting putting in values that are beyond the scope of original design spec, calculations may be bouncing off max trap values or even math overflows resulting bogus outputs or results.
Again speculation on my part, but have seen it far too many times with integer based math. The reason I'm thinking this is, it's big engines with big boost that run into this problem capable of 2-3 times the horsepower PCM code was originally written for.
I won't get into details pertaining to integer based math, but can tell you if some values double it's not inconceivable that a math overflow can result in a complex equation, which is typically trapped, but still result is incorrect value and unwanted operation or error can result.
***Disclaimer*** I am not a programmer but have had to clean up others messes... my all time favorite is not trapping for divide by zero (it's infinite).
Mike
Some CPU details below...
Modular Architecture
*Central Processing Unit (CPU32)
*Upward Object Code Compatible
*New Instructions for controller Applications
*32 Bit Archirecture
*Virtual Memory Implementation
*Loop Mode of Insruction Execution
*Table Lookup and Interpolate Instruction
*Improved Exception Handling for Controller Applications
*Trace on change of flow
*Hardware breakpoint signal, Background Debugging Mode (BDM)
*Fully static operation
*System Integration Module
Dedicated Micro-Engine Operating Independently of CPU32
*16 Independent Programmable Channels and Pins
*Any Channel can Perform Any Time Function
*Each Channel has Six or Eight 16 Bit Parameter Registers
*Each Timer Function May Be Assigned to More Than One Channel
*Two Timer Counter Registers with Programmable Prescalers
*Each Channel Can Be Synchronized to Either or Both Counters
*Selectable Channel Priority Levels
From http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/...468rH3DgbNyDvb .
The CPU is 32 Bit but external data path is 16 bit (ram/Flash/misc...) although 8/16/32 bit read/write is not a problem.
Now the Micro Engine or TPU (Time processing unit) is what tracks engine angle (cam/crank), fires injectors and coils... is also 16 bit. The TPU if you read the manual, it was intended primarily for automotive use (engine control) and has native instructions (micro coded) to support reluctor wheel based angle detection and so on...
Now I have worked with MC68332 in the past on a R&D project so I do know it somewhat.
What I had mentioned to Nick Y was that there may be some sort of integer math based limitation. The 68332 is not a floating point processor and table lookup and interpolate instructions are 16 bit if I remember correctly, so some of the critical math, may and likely is 16 bit integer based especially if being passed to and from TPU.
It is not inconceivable that what engineers had as a design spec only supported X values (mass flow, fuel, RPM...). Or by putting putting in values that are beyond the scope of original design spec, calculations may be bouncing off max trap values or even math overflows resulting bogus outputs or results.
Again speculation on my part, but have seen it far too many times with integer based math. The reason I'm thinking this is, it's big engines with big boost that run into this problem capable of 2-3 times the horsepower PCM code was originally written for.
I won't get into details pertaining to integer based math, but can tell you if some values double it's not inconceivable that a math overflow can result in a complex equation, which is typically trapped, but still result is incorrect value and unwanted operation or error can result.
***Disclaimer*** I am not a programmer but have had to clean up others messes... my all time favorite is not trapping for divide by zero (it's infinite).
Mike
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,715
Likes: 0
From: Tinker till it blows... then back it off a notch, maybe!!
St. Jude Donor '08
Divide by zero usually results in a program crash....so what is the pcm doing.?...it must have provisions to ignore/default to somethng in these cases.
Has the 1514 error been addressed in any more detail by top notch hpt tuners, or is fudging the ifr/ve the only known cure?
Has the 1514 error been addressed in any more detail by top notch hpt tuners, or is fudging the ifr/ve the only known cure?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 8,840
Likes: 43
From: State of Confusion.
no doubt about Phil....i wanna try all possibilities before asking though.
i need to learn this stuff....from what i ve researched this looks to be the only work around. phil gets bugged alot and doesnt like spoon feeding people, which i understand. now rob if i lived near phil that would be a different story....my wife makes the BEST BUFFALO CHICKEN WINGS.. listening phil????
i need to learn this stuff....from what i ve researched this looks to be the only work around. phil gets bugged alot and doesnt like spoon feeding people, which i understand. now rob if i lived near phil that would be a different story....my wife makes the BEST BUFFALO CHICKEN WINGS..
listening phil????
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 8,863
Likes: 86
From: PA
St. Jude Donor '08
Divide by zero usually results in a program crash....so what is the pcm doing.?...it must have provisions to ignore/default to somethng in these cases.
Has the 1514 error been addressed in any more detail by top notch hpt tuners, or is fudging the ifr/ve the only known cure?
Has the 1514 error been addressed in any more detail by top notch hpt tuners, or is fudging the ifr/ve the only known cure?
yeah it would be nice to see some seasoned tuners jump on here
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,715
Likes: 0
From: Tinker till it blows... then back it off a notch, maybe!!
St. Jude Donor '08
Nick
I think that you'll be alright. It has worked for many in the past...
Just don't rush to get it finished. You've put in so much time already and you're so close,....so what's a bit more??
I think that you'll be alright. It has worked for many in the past...
Just don't rush to get it finished. You've put in so much time already and you're so close,....so what's a bit more??
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 8,863
Likes: 86
From: PA
St. Jude Donor '08
