mms
Pro
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 712
Likes: 0
From: Santa Clarita Ca
Re: mms (Terry Burger)
and Mike @ Etune using his propriety tuning software (which can do things no one can do with ls1edit), is the place for tuning. 
[Modified by Terry Burger, 5:43 PM 3/24/2004]
[Modified by Terry Burger, 5:43 PM 3/24/2004]
Pro
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 501
Likes: 82
From: Woodland Hills CA
Re: mms (InvisibleSun)
I had a pretty negative experience with MMS, as well. It took them about 8 months just to put in my 427. I gave them a ton more money to do the rest of the stuff then it turns out they never did it because they were planning on going out of business... Oh well, what can you do. I am now dealing with Rob who used to be the mechanic at MMS. He has his own shop in a different location in Van Nuys but uses the same phone # as MMS. He's been AWESOME to work with. I can't even tell you how nice it is to be able to call and talk with someone everyday about my car and the status. Everything is getting done really fast (finally) and soon my dream car will be done! He even took me to the track and taught me how to drag race. Very cool.
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 11,221
Likes: 899
From: CA
2017 C5 of the Year Finalist
St. Jude Donor '08
Re: mms (AWSM_06)
Mike Morgen is an arrogant Jac.... who brought his own business down on himself through a series of consistant selfish and thoughtless actions that cost many many car enthusiasts thousands upon thousands of hard earned dollars for sub par tuning and motor work!!!! 
He tuned my car with 42# injectors and 10#s of boost. He left me too lean and I later determined that I was at a 152% flow rate on the injectors. I upgraded to 55#ers and retuned elswhere.
I can't prove it, but I believe he is partially responsible for my past cracked block prior to the injector upgrade.
Good riddance to this heartless individual.
JB
He tuned my car with 42# injectors and 10#s of boost. He left me too lean and I later determined that I was at a 152% flow rate on the injectors. I upgraded to 55#ers and retuned elswhere.
I can't prove it, but I believe he is partially responsible for my past cracked block prior to the injector upgrade.
Good riddance to this heartless individual.
JB
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,871
Likes: 0
From: Oceanside, Ca. Ca.
Re: mms (jbsblownc5)
Mike Morgen is an arrogant Jac....
Good riddance to this heartless individual.
JB
Good riddance to this heartless individual.
JB
He was arrogent..........He used to blow everyone off here on the forum all the time. Including me. He told me things that were less than accurate.
Less that honest, !!!!! And his work was less than acceptable, it just stunk!
I have spent thousands of $$ in repairs from his mickey mouse workmanship.
And that said, I do agree 100% with you.
You could not have said it better.
R.I.P.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,118
Likes: 2
Re: mms (bruce1)
MMS 
there... I feel better now. I just finished fixing all the things Morgan screwed up. I had to micro-inspect everything that MMS touched to be sure I wouldn't have more problems later on. Everything seems to be OK...I finally have the car I wanted 2 years ago.
there... I feel better now. I just finished fixing all the things Morgan screwed up. I had to micro-inspect everything that MMS touched to be sure I wouldn't have more problems later on. Everything seems to be OK...I finally have the car I wanted 2 years ago.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,871
Likes: 0
From: Oceanside, Ca. Ca.
Re: mms (HIGHRPM)
MMS there... I feel better now. I just finished fixing all the things Morgan screwed up. I had to micro-inspect everything that MMS touched to be sure I wouldn't have more problems later on. Everything seems to be OK...I finally have the car I wanted 2 years ago.
there... I feel better now. I just finished fixing all the things Morgan screwed up. I had to micro-inspect everything that MMS touched to be sure I wouldn't have more problems later on. Everything seems to be OK...I finally have the car I wanted 2 years ago.
I knew when I heard that you have them replace the entire engine, and R&D many situations, you would have issues.
I was sad for you, but glad that I was not in your shoes.
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 6,976
Likes: 527
From: Clouds Over California
Re: mms (bruce1)
I don't hold it against any of you..because sometimes people just need to find out for themselves.
But I told each and everyone of you what I saw going on at his shop. Some of you even called me on the phone to tell me I was wrong...well I wasn't.
I was forced to go back to MMS for tuning because there was nobody else really out here on the west coast....he was like the "Soup ****" if you approached him wrong about anything "no tune for you". The thing I didn't get is when I talked to Mike he seemed like a really cool dude...but I think he was just a little immature to be running a business. If he could have taken some responsibility for some of the things that went wrong and truly made improvements when mistakes were made I think he would have eventually done ok...it just costs us a lot of money for poor business practices..unfortunately lawsuits can cost a lot of money.
The real advice I have is that when a forum member tries to help other members out...and he has some history...be opened minded enough to listen..if might end up saving you a lot of time and money. A lot of people have huge "Tuner Loyalty" without having ever had a problem..its like I always say...its not how you are treated when everything is going good..its how you are treated when things go bad. :flag
But I told each and everyone of you what I saw going on at his shop. Some of you even called me on the phone to tell me I was wrong...well I wasn't.
I was forced to go back to MMS for tuning because there was nobody else really out here on the west coast....he was like the "Soup ****" if you approached him wrong about anything "no tune for you". The thing I didn't get is when I talked to Mike he seemed like a really cool dude...but I think he was just a little immature to be running a business. If he could have taken some responsibility for some of the things that went wrong and truly made improvements when mistakes were made I think he would have eventually done ok...it just costs us a lot of money for poor business practices..unfortunately lawsuits can cost a lot of money.
The real advice I have is that when a forum member tries to help other members out...and he has some history...be opened minded enough to listen..if might end up saving you a lot of time and money. A lot of people have huge "Tuner Loyalty" without having ever had a problem..its like I always say...its not how you are treated when everything is going good..its how you are treated when things go bad. :flag
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,118
Likes: 2
Re: mms (Shinobi'sZ)
Hi Kevin.....I remember when I first talked to you about the problems at MMS....at that point I had already committed myself to the project.....I had paid well over half in upfront deposits and there wasn't anything I could do without loosing close to $20K. I was very concerned the entire time my car was at MMS, but all the warnings came too late...MMS had my $$$ and car and weren't about to give me a refund. My C5R motor is performing very well....who ever did the machine work and assembly did a good job...I have over 40 dyno pulls and everything is as promised. Most of the problems came from the MMS intake to the D1 Procharger being too restrictive. Also the D1 just isn't adequate for a 427....the recent changes to the F1-R made by Andy have solved all the issues and my car is all that I had hoped for. This good conclusion has made all the time and $$$ worth the effort. My $$$ story is small compared to one I heard about Hennesey and a guy's new Viper. 
[Modified by HIGHRPM, 8:54 AM 4/21/2004]
[Modified by HIGHRPM, 8:54 AM 4/21/2004]
Pro
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 501
Likes: 82
From: Woodland Hills CA
Re: mms (HIGHRPM)
Hi Kevin.....I remember when I first talked to you about the problems at MMS....at that point I had already committed myself to the project.....I had paid well over half in upfront deposits and there wasn't anything I could do without loosing close to $20K. I was very concerned the entire time my car was at MMS, but all the warnings came too late...MMS had my $$$ and car and weren't about to give me a refund. My C5R motor is performing very well....who ever did the machine work and assembly did a good job...I have over 40 dyno pulls and everything is as promised. Most of the problems came from the MMS intake to the D1 Procharger being too restrictive. Also the D1 just isn't adequate for a 427....the recent changes to the F1-R made by Andy have solved all the issues and my car is all that I had hoped for. This good conclusion has made all the time and $$$ worth the effort. My $$$ story is small compared to one I heard about Hennesey and a guy's new Viper.
[Modified by HIGHRPM, 8:54 AM 4/21/2004]
[Modified by HIGHRPM, 8:54 AM 4/21/2004]
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,871
Likes: 0
From: Oceanside, Ca. Ca.
Re: mms (AWSM_06)
It's amazing how many of us have been swindled by this guy.
I wish we could have filed a class action suit to recover some of our costs.
The damages ($$$,$$$$.$$) would have been well over 100K I am sure!
Bruce
I wish we could have filed a class action suit to recover some of our costs.
The damages ($$$,$$$$.$$) would have been well over 100K I am sure!
Bruce
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 797
Likes: 1
From: Sunny Earthquake Country, USA On the Left Coast (which is becoming more Right!)
Re: mms (OCMike)
I heard Al was at LAPD.
I'm sticking w/Andy and staying as far away from those guys as I can!
When I did my taxes-I added up the money I paid MMS for my 427 C5R and related components-it was a little over $30K that I donated to MMS!
My terribly out of balance (MMS SAID IT WAS FINE!) totally untuned (MMS SAID IT WAS FINE!) 427 C5R spun a bearing after only 700 miles of easy break-in street operation!
So I took it to Andy-on inspection, the 2nd main bearing had spun and destroyed the block!
At that time and over the next several months, I discovered many many components were not installed, wrong ones installed, or original components reused, e.g. roller followers with 77,000 miles on them when I paid for new!
I don't have time to write out all of it, and I probably will never know all of it 'cause I'm replacing everything that MMS did! I just threw out the "stage III" heads which were hogged out so much the gasket was sticking into the chamber and required welding and remachining!
Again, I don't like to think about this stuff 'cause I start to cry and the salty tears may short out my keyboard!
Andy just about has everything sorted out now and shortly I'll have my dream car!
Roy
[Modified by 7.0sc SuperVette, 9:35 PM 4/21/2004]
I'm sticking w/Andy and staying as far away from those guys as I can!
When I did my taxes-I added up the money I paid
MMS for my 427 C5R and related components-it was a little over $30K that I donated to MMS!My terribly out of balance (MMS SAID IT WAS FINE!) totally untuned (MMS SAID IT WAS FINE!) 427 C5R spun a bearing after only 700 miles of easy break-in street operation!
So I took it to Andy-on inspection, the 2nd main bearing had spun and destroyed the block!
At that time and over the next several months, I discovered many many components were not installed, wrong ones installed, or original components reused, e.g. roller followers with 77,000 miles on them when I paid for new!
I don't have time to write out all of it, and I probably will never know all of it 'cause I'm replacing everything that MMS did! I just threw out the "stage III" heads which were hogged out so much the gasket was sticking into the chamber and required welding and remachining!
Again, I don't like to think about this stuff 'cause I start to cry and the salty tears may short out my keyboard!
Andy just about has everything sorted out now and shortly I'll have my dream car!
Roy
[Modified by 7.0sc SuperVette, 9:35 PM 4/21/2004]
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,116
Likes: 0
From: Simi Valley CA
Re: mms (7.0sc SuperVette)
I don't have time to write out all of it, and I probbably will never know all of it 'cause I'm replacing everything that MMS did! I just threw out the "stage III" heads which were hogged out so much the gasket was sticking into the chamber and required welding and remachining!
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,871
Likes: 0
From: Oceanside, Ca. Ca.
Re: mms (7.0sc SuperVette)
I'm replacing everything that MMS did! I just threw out the "stage III" heads which were hogged out so much the gasket was sticking into the chamber and required welding and remachining!
Roy
Roy
I feel for you.
That is sad..........but again you are not alone.
I have been there, and I have been doing exactly as you are, replacing everything, then we will have good cars..........
My heads were machined by maniacs, and were canibalized just like yours.
.
It looked rather ugly in there.
I was Surprised the heads worked as well as it did.
I should have my heads back from TPIS any day now. Then I hope to be happy again with my engine.
They Replaced the valves with the correct length in specification parts.
Checked everything out, springs are good (Manley) as well as the retainers.
Unfortunately, they could not help the heads....the hogged out area had too much material removed already. They couod not improve on the flow without risking further damage.
Live and learn.
Bruce
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 155
Likes: 0
From: Chatsworth, Ca. 91311
Re: mms (AWSM_06)
Here is my story with Mike and Rob. Out of balance spec III (even though I paid to have it balanced), Cross threaded O2 Sensor in header. Cracked Header collector from the install. Shimmed the clutch when the instructions say explicitly not to (result clutch slip and worn clutch after 1500miles). Didn't attach the secondary air system bracket to back of head and melted hoses and wires. Didn't re wire tie abs wires and many many others. Mike tuned the car very very lean. Only made 390 RWHP in a M6. So far it has cost me $5,000 to fix a $10,000 H/C, Intake and Clutch install. Car is at LAPD for a retune, clutch, and general cleanup of the shoty work.
Since MMS, I have done business with both Andy and LAPD. I am very please with both organizations.
Since MMS, I have done business with both Andy and LAPD. I am very please with both organizations.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,871
Likes: 0
From: Oceanside, Ca. Ca.
Re: mms (shaheen)
Here is my story with Mike and Rob. Out of balance spec III (even though I paid to have it balanced), Cross threaded O2 Sensor in header. Cracked Header collector from the install. Shimmed the clutch when the instructions say explicitly not to (result clutch slip and worn clutch after 1500miles). Didn't attach the secondary air system bracket to back of head and melted hoses and wires. Didn't re wire tie abs wires and many many others. Mike tuned the car very very lean. Only made 390 RWHP in a M6. So far it has cost me $5,000 to fix a $10,000 H/C, Intake and Clutch install. Car is at LAPD for a retune, clutch, and general cleanup of the shoty work.
Since MMS, I have done business with both Andy and LAPD. I am very please with both organizations.
Since MMS, I have done business with both Andy and LAPD. I am very please with both organizations.
UNFORTUNATELY, you had ignored my warnings....
Have mercy! I wish you had taken me seriously.
Bruce
Pro
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 712
Likes: 0
From: Santa Clarita Ca
Re: mms (Terry Burger)
I don't have time to write out all of it, and I probbably will never know all of it 'cause I'm replacing everything that MMS did! I just threw out the "stage III" heads which were hogged out so much the gasket was sticking into the chamber and required welding and remachining!
Hey if you're throwing them away I'll give you a little cash for them!
Hey if you're throwing them away I'll give you a little cash for them!