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BlackWing vs. VaraRam

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Old Apr 11, 2005 | 09:53 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Scoundrl
None of these are hydrolocked because of Vararams. I have seen hydrolocked motors before, was at the ford dealership when they brought in a ranger that was submarined, but it didn't have a vararam on it. I will be more carefull driving my car in HEAVY rain becuase I know there is an increased risk with the new setup. I would take extra care when washing my car if I had a blackwing because it gets soaked when you wash the car. I suspect there is some risk of sucking water in thru that filter if you are driving thru a hurricane also, or does water coming from the top not count?

-Ken
Korreck is an idiot. Trying to reason with an idiot is a waste of time. It's been proven time and time again that he has no clue what he's talking about. All of his advice.... coming from a guy who has never shown any proof that he OWN'S a C5 let alone drives one. He's a total TOOL. Shortly, he will surpass "WILLA" status.
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Old Apr 11, 2005 | 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by EHS
The Blackwing does not get "soaked" when you wash the car, which most folks do with the hood closed. That makes it scientifically impossible.

And, water does not come in from the top when driving, even in a hurricane, unless of course, you're driving with the hood open.

If you don't have the "performance hood seal" it does.
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Old Apr 11, 2005 | 09:57 AM
  #43  
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I have SEEN water and soap on a blackwing after washing, it runs down the hood, thru the lip and onto the blackwing. The "performance hood seal" fixes this but also makes engine bay temps go up. I am not doggin the blackwing BTW, guys are getting good results with it but the Vararam seems to be doing a little better. Still looking for a confirmed, legitimate (driving in a hurricane is stupid in a Hummer much less a Vette so it's a good thing he no long is representing us) incident of hydrolock. At the depth you need for it to happen you'll also have some soaked carpet and damaged seat electronics as well as an increased risk of the dreaded "hydroplane".

-Ken
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Old Apr 11, 2005 | 10:07 AM
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Okay, here's my 2 (Euro-)cents on this never before discussed topic.

1. You can hydrolock any engine. You just have to drive into water deep enough to get to your air intake. The stock air intake is just a little higher than the vararam. Of course you could be stupid enough to drive through deep water quick enough to create a bow wave.

2. "Cold air" only means it is colder than the air in your engine bay. If I am not totally mistaken, this means a stock corvette already has a cold air intake. If you cut your radiator shroud for you intake, you actually turned the stock cold air intake into a "sometimes warm, at speed okay" intake. Just try to tune warm startup/idle on a car with one of these stupid intakes, and you know what I mean.

3. "Ram air" works. Why wouldn't it? There are many proven applications. If you doubt it, just hook up your data logger of choice, and take a look at your intake pressure while going faster. It is a small effect, but you can measure it. At autobahn speeds, I have seen 4kPa over ambient pressure. That is 4% "boost", compared to up to -8% pressure loss with the stock air intake. I have no way of dynoing my car while going down the Autobahn at a 160mph, but just the ram effect should account for something like 15hp, maybe a little more.


Till
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Old Apr 11, 2005 | 10:15 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by till
Okay, here's my 2 (Euro-)cents on this never before discussed topic.

1. You can hydrolock any engine. You just have to drive into water deep enough to get to your air intake. The stock air intake is just a little higher than the vararam. Of course you could be stupid enough to drive through deep water quick enough to create a bow wave.

2. "Cold air" only means it is colder than the air in your engine bay. If I am not totally mistaken, this means a stock corvette already has a cold air intake. If you cut your radiator shroud for you intake, you actually turned the stock cold air intake into a "sometimes warm, at speed okay" intake. Just try to tune warm startup/idle on a car with one of these stupid intakes, and you know what I mean.

3. "Ram air" works. Why wouldn't it? There are many proven applications. If you doubt it, just hook up your data logger of choice, and take a look at your intake pressure while going faster. It is a small effect, but you can measure it. At autobahn speeds, I have seen 4kPa over ambient pressure. That is 4% "boost", compared to up to -8% pressure loss with the stock air intake. I have no way of dynoing my car while going down the Autobahn at a 160mph, but just the ram effect should account for something like 15hp, maybe a little more.


Till
THANK YOU for point #3. I've been waiting for someone to say this while some people keep saying "whaaaaaa, there's no such thing as ram air" REAL TIME DATA-MANIFOLD ABSOLUTE PRESSURE-these are tools for our use... USE THEM!
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Old Apr 11, 2005 | 10:21 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by 90 droptop
If you don't have the "performance hood seal" it does.
Not really, I've had a Blackwing for almost five years, with and without the hood seal, with and without a Melchwing.

I drive it in all conditions, from downpours to snow storms.

The filter is as clean as the dusty shroud next to it.

Remember also, the filter is oiled, and oil and water don't mix.
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Old Apr 11, 2005 | 10:30 AM
  #47  
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I had all 3........
The 00' Coupe :We have driven the Vortex through it all w/o issue after 34K miles. It is ~14" above the road surface.


The 97' Coupe: Driven to BG last year in torents of rain VarRam..........no issues and 8K miles. Haven't measured but it has to be at least ~10" above the road surface.
The 00' vert: Up until Yesterday morning had the engine compartment heat sucking Donaldson Blackwing

It now has a VarRam on it..............and to the track she will go on the 22nd. Best was a 12.49 @109.65 with 7.89 1/8 @ 86.52 with a 1.72 60' on 275/35/18 bfg drs with the blackwing. After tuning on the 18th we will see what it does
My pick, VarRam hands down....it does not impead air flow into the radiator/condesor compared to the vortex and alike.
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Old Apr 11, 2005 | 10:43 AM
  #48  
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I'm not going to say anything but one thing as this debate is getting quite tiresome. There are those that like Blackwing and those that like VaraRam. I have not tried anything but VaraRam because I think it is that good from FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE and you can see the results for yourself here .
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Old Apr 11, 2005 | 10:46 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by EHS
Not really, I've had a Blackwing for almost five years, with and without the hood seal, with and without a Melchwing.

I drive it in all conditions, from downpours to snow storms.

.
Thats funny, on my vert without the hood seal, after washing the car, there is ALWAYS a puddle of water on my VARARAM. It sits where the Blackwing sits. Maybe your car is special............
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Old Apr 11, 2005 | 10:53 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by 90 droptop
Thats funny, on my vert without the hood seal, after washing the car, there is ALWAYS a puddle of water on my VARARAM. It sits where the Blackwing sits. Maybe your car is special............
I go through a car wash. That may be the difference.
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Old Apr 11, 2005 | 10:56 AM
  #51  
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A car wash would not have any effect on the VaraRam unless someone sprayed the nozzle up into the runners. Wait a minute, YOU BRING YOUR VETTE THROUGH A CARWASH??????
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Old Apr 11, 2005 | 10:59 AM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by Cajundude
...Wait a minute, YOU BRING YOUR VETTE THROUGH A CARWASH??????
Absolutely, I love it. Besides, it beats doing it by hand, and it's a lot quicker.


Last edited by EHS; Apr 11, 2005 at 11:02 AM.
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Old Apr 11, 2005 | 11:06 AM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by EB20003
Well yeah, I doubt I would attempt to drive through a hurricane with it or recommend that anyone else try that.
actually he was not driving in the Hurricane...just the rain storms that prelude the hurricane by several hours...feeder bands from approaching doom...

anyway, the point is...the "Ram Air" pulled H20 into the engine that under normal circumstances would have been just fine...heavy rain...hell, I have driven mine in heavy rain and been just fine...he unfortunatley had his engine fart out pieces all over the road...If I thought I would never get caught in a rain storm or find myself in deep water because of it...I would put one on...hell- the numbers don't lie!

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Old Apr 11, 2005 | 12:43 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by byte_me
actually he was not driving in the Hurricane...just the rain storms that prelude the hurricane by several hours...feeder bands from approaching doom...

anyway, the point is...the "Ram Air" pulled H20 into the engine that under normal circumstances would have been just fine...heavy rain...hell, I have driven mine in heavy rain and been just fine...he unfortunatley had his engine fart out pieces all over the road...If I thought I would never get caught in a rain storm or find myself in deep water because of it...I would put one on...hell- the numbers don't lie!

In S. Cal this year, we have had some of the heavyest rain ever, I drove my VARARAM through all the storms. No problems at all. I just stay out of puddles.
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Old Apr 11, 2005 | 05:40 PM
  #55  
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Hi Guys,

I did something different, I took the stock air box removed the cover and flipped it 180 so that it sits against the plastic shield and then cut it open and sealed it I have a KN filter and I definately feel a difference in the way the car responds. I'm pulling fresh air from the front of the car and it never gets wet..
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Old Apr 11, 2005 | 06:17 PM
  #56  
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I have used both. The Blackwing is excellent, very easy to install. HP claims seem to be reasonable based on dyno tests. I switched to VARARAM, hoping to gain some high-end punch. I think I can feel a bit more power above 50 mph. I have yet to test it on the dragstrip, so I do not know for sure. It is much more difficult to install, especially if you do not have a rack to use. Rain has not been a problem with the VARARAM, but you must definitely avoid standing water more than a few inches deep.
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Old Apr 11, 2005 | 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by byte_me
actually he was not driving in the Hurricane...just the rain storms that prelude the hurricane by several hours...feeder bands from approaching doom...

anyway, the point is...the "Ram Air" pulled H20 into the engine that under normal circumstances would have been just fine...heavy rain...hell, I have driven mine in heavy rain and been just fine...he unfortunatley had his engine fart out pieces all over the road...If I thought I would never get caught in a rain storm or find myself in deep water because of it...I would put one on...hell- the numbers don't lie!

I doubt I would use the Vararam on a daily driver. I hate he hydrolocked his engine, but if my Vette were my daily driver it would probably be bone stock
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Old Apr 11, 2005 | 08:30 PM
  #58  
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You guys are funny...
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Old Apr 11, 2005 | 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by byte_me
actually he was not driving in the Hurricane...just the rain storms that prelude the hurricane by several hours...feeder bands from approaching doom...

If I thought I would never get caught in a rain storm or find myself in deep water because of it...I would put one on...hell- the numbers don't lie!

If you ever decide to put one on, check out the filter first. I think you'll decide again not to put it on.

I'll wash mine tomorrow and see if the Blackwing gets wet.

Is poop top giving a forum discount?

Bob

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Old Apr 11, 2005 | 09:00 PM
  #60  
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I installed a Vararan and felt immediatly a huge difference.
Then I installed LGM LT pro headers and felt another huge difference.
Then I dyno the car without any other mods and any tuning.
I gain 50RWHP and 50RWTQ.(356RWHP and 377RWTQ)
This means about 60HP at the crank (LGM prone only 37HP)
And that was confirmed anytime against any Z06 I know
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