this!!
Air intake system
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From: Sunshine State
Originally Posted by EB20003
Gotta remember which is which so we don't shut down to early.
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2000
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From: San Diego CA
Originally Posted by EB20003
But even if there is a miniscule difference, the drivability issues you describe (surging) would have to be taken into account.
And again, I tend to believe that the surging is the result of that hole in in your radiator shroud.
If the search function were up you would be able to find lots of information and many examples of this surging problem using the Blackwing and a cut radiator shroud.
The only surprising thing is that you did not have this problem before now.
And again, I tend to believe that the surging is the result of that hole in in your radiator shroud.
If the search function were up you would be able to find lots of information and many examples of this surging problem using the Blackwing and a cut radiator shroud.
The only surprising thing is that you did not have this problem before now.
Safety Car
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From: Sunshine State
Originally Posted by Dave68
Cutting a hole in the shroud and NOT adding a wire mesh screen is somewhat akin to removing your MAF screen and expecting your engine to not notice the difference. My engine doesn't surge and I do not have an enclosed box over the filter. I also helped install the mod in a friend's C5 and he has had no surging issues. The key is the screen - it straightens air flow and prevents large debris from annihilating the filter.
Last edited by Korreck; Jun 16, 2005 at 10:09 PM.
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From: San Diego CA
Bob,
I guess I assumed that you have a scoop installed to channel air up at the opening. Without a scoop, heat from the radiator may find its way into the opening - another reason why I wanted a scoop - to insulate the incoming air from the radiator heat. If I did have any surging issues, I would've had my car tuned and I have no doubt that this would optimize power output - maybe someday.
From what I've read here in this forum, turbulent, unregulated air into the MAF causes what the computer sees as an excessively lean (uncorrectable) condition and the result is almost always some lean code-throwing. This is why 2002+ Z06 owners experience lean code displays after they install a Warhead or Blackwing intake filter. I believe what you experienced is related to air velocity into the filter. By encasing the filter, you have created a high-pressure area around it, slowing air flow into the filter.
I guess I assumed that you have a scoop installed to channel air up at the opening. Without a scoop, heat from the radiator may find its way into the opening - another reason why I wanted a scoop - to insulate the incoming air from the radiator heat. If I did have any surging issues, I would've had my car tuned and I have no doubt that this would optimize power output - maybe someday.
From what I've read here in this forum, turbulent, unregulated air into the MAF causes what the computer sees as an excessively lean (uncorrectable) condition and the result is almost always some lean code-throwing. This is why 2002+ Z06 owners experience lean code displays after they install a Warhead or Blackwing intake filter. I believe what you experienced is related to air velocity into the filter. By encasing the filter, you have created a high-pressure area around it, slowing air flow into the filter.
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 2003
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From: Sunshine State
Originally Posted by Dave68
Bob,
I guess I assumed that you have a scoop installed to channel air up at the opening. Without a scoop, heat from the radiator may find its way into the opening - another reason why I wanted a scoop - to insulate the incoming air from the radiator heat. If I did have any surging issues, I would've had my car tuned and I have no doubt that this would optimize power output - maybe someday.
From what I've read here in this forum, turbulent, unregulated air into the MAF causes what the computer sees as an excessively lean (uncorrectable) condition and the result is almost always some lean code-throwing. This is why 2002+ Z06 owners experience lean code displays after they install a Warhead or Blackwing intake filter. I believe what you experienced is related to air velocity into the filter. By encasing the filter, you have created a high-pressure area around it, slowing air flow into the filter.
I guess I assumed that you have a scoop installed to channel air up at the opening. Without a scoop, heat from the radiator may find its way into the opening - another reason why I wanted a scoop - to insulate the incoming air from the radiator heat. If I did have any surging issues, I would've had my car tuned and I have no doubt that this would optimize power output - maybe someday.
From what I've read here in this forum, turbulent, unregulated air into the MAF causes what the computer sees as an excessively lean (uncorrectable) condition and the result is almost always some lean code-throwing. This is why 2002+ Z06 owners experience lean code displays after they install a Warhead or Blackwing intake filter. I believe what you experienced is related to air velocity into the filter. By encasing the filter, you have created a high-pressure area around it, slowing air flow into the filter.
It also depends on how PCM is tuned and fuel trims not being close to perfect. Your PCM is forced to surge back and forth with colder/hotter airstreams.
I have now prevented the engine bay air from getting into the filter via the cover and the surging has gone.
I don't think the screens have anything to do with it. I think it's just the way your PCM was tuned.
Last edited by Korreck; Jun 17, 2005 at 08:13 AM.
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From: Sunshine State
Originally Posted by 2000BSME
I prefer to take her panty hose off before I make a run... 
I agree, get em off first. Makes the job much easier.
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Race Director
Joined: Dec 2000
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From: San Diego CA
Originally Posted by Korreck
Here's some info for you. I talked to a tuner and he told me exactly how it was acting and how to fix it. Surging is caused by the following: While stepping on the gas pedal the air gets pulled in and the PCM adjusts as its now richer but then when lifting on gas pedal or low RPMs the hotter engine bay air also gets pulled in and forces PCM to adjust again.
It also depends on how PCM is tuned and fuel trims not being close to perfect. Your PCM is forced to surge back and forth with colder/hotter airstreams.
I have now prevented the engine bay air from getting into the filter via the cover and the surging has gone.
I don't think the screens have anything to do with it. I think it's just the way your PCM was tuned.
It also depends on how PCM is tuned and fuel trims not being close to perfect. Your PCM is forced to surge back and forth with colder/hotter airstreams.
I have now prevented the engine bay air from getting into the filter via the cover and the surging has gone.
I don't think the screens have anything to do with it. I think it's just the way your PCM was tuned.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,713
Likes: 2
Originally Posted by Korreck
Got some comments and questions Jessum. The K&N filter is not much better than foam. I wouldn't advise anyone to use it. Check this. http://home.usadatanet.net/~jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm
You told me you had a 195 thermostat. How do you get the temp below that ? Looks like you should get that gauge checked.
How are you getting ambient air to your filter?
You told me you had a 195 thermostat. How do you get the temp below that ? Looks like you should get that gauge checked.
How are you getting ambient air to your filter?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,911
Likes: 1
From: Augusta GA
St. Jude Donor '05-'06
Originally Posted by shurite44
I don't know about big time horses for an air intake, it helps though. I recommend the vararam.
Not going to find any monster HP with an intake. You will feal a SOTP change. Best mod is seat time. Enjoy! Dave
Rick
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Joined: Jun 2003
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From: Sunshine State
Originally Posted by Dave68
Remember that the screen does slow the flow of air onto the filter. I would think that this would temper the hot/cold scenarios you mentioned. Remember too, that a stock Z06 with open fascia must experience varying levels of hot/cold, depending upon vehicle speed. However, the sheer volume of air in the engine bay may tone down temp changes as well. I do know that according to my Car Chip data, intake temps in my C5 are normally consistent (close to ambient) unless heavy stop& go driving is ecountered. Another example I just recalled is the K&N intake system - no cover for its filter and no surging (at least of which I've heard). Instead of a screen, this system limits the shroud opening (and cold air), so that may also temper the air temp fluctuations.
I wouldn't think the screen would slow the airflow and I don't see how the opening in the shroud would cause the air to swirl. Key words are 'I wouldn't think', but I sure don't know.
All I can tell you is that the tuner I talked to descibed exactly the way my car was surging and how to fix it. I did as he suggested, which I was going to do anyway, and you know the rest of the story. Fixed.
He also suggested HP Tuner but I am going with EASE and LS!. I think that for guys like us that like to do our own things rather than just purchase supposedly go fast goodies, this software is a requirement.
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From: Sunshine State
Originally Posted by 16Again
Just for you Korreck. VARARAM
VARARAM 
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From: Sunshine State
Originally Posted by gorillavet
I think you know this was a non scientific study that was based upon strong bias by both these gentleman. That being said, a non rocket scientist would agree that K&N is a performance improvement over stock due to better air flow which will affect the filtering capacity. This all boils down to what you are looking for in performace versus filtration. I think for you it really boils down to your unreasonable dislike of one product.......Vararam.
You're right about the Vararam. They talk about their ram air effect. All they're doing is ramming it up their cutomers azz,
Last edited by Korreck; Jun 17, 2005 at 02:35 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 46,764
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From: Boynton Beach Florida
St. Jude Donor '07-'12, '20
Originally Posted by Korreck
You been following me around like a little puppy dog. Next weekend will be the last in Fl for awhile. You going to be at Bradenton next Sat? Or do you have another lame azz excuse. I just want to be able to flip you the bird one last time this summer
My son bought me a really nice Nikon camera for fathers day, who knows I may be sending you a pic.
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 19,304
Likes: 85
From: San Diego CA
Originally Posted by Korreck
I'll tell ya Dave, I'm getting EASE diagnostic software and LS1 Edit. At least then I'll know exactly what's going on and why.
I wouldn't think the screen would slow the airflow and I don't see how the opening in the shroud would cause the air to swirl. Key words are 'I wouldn't think', but I sure don't know.
All I can tell you is that the tuner I talked to descibed exactly the way my car was surging and how to fix it. I did as he suggested, which I was going to do anyway, and you know the rest of the story. Fixed.
He also suggested HP Tuner but I am going with EASE and LS!. I think that for guys like us that like to do our own things rather than just purchase supposedly go fast goodies, this software is a requirement.
I wouldn't think the screen would slow the airflow and I don't see how the opening in the shroud would cause the air to swirl. Key words are 'I wouldn't think', but I sure don't know.
All I can tell you is that the tuner I talked to descibed exactly the way my car was surging and how to fix it. I did as he suggested, which I was going to do anyway, and you know the rest of the story. Fixed.
He also suggested HP Tuner but I am going with EASE and LS!. I think that for guys like us that like to do our own things rather than just purchase supposedly go fast goodies, this software is a requirement.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 38,314
Likes: 35
Originally Posted by Korreck
I'll tell ya Dave, I'm getting EASE diagnostic software and LS1 Edit. At least then I'll know exactly what's going on and why.
I wouldn't think the screen would slow the airflow and I don't see how the opening in the shroud would cause the air to swirl. Key words are 'I wouldn't think', but I sure don't know.
All I can tell you is that the tuner I talked to descibed exactly the way my car was surging and how to fix it. I did as he suggested, which I was going to do anyway, and you know the rest of the story. Fixed.
He also suggested HP Tuner but I am going with EASE and LS!. I think that for guys like us that like to do our own things rather than just purchase supposedly go fast goodies, this software is a requirement.
I wouldn't think the screen would slow the airflow and I don't see how the opening in the shroud would cause the air to swirl. Key words are 'I wouldn't think', but I sure don't know.
All I can tell you is that the tuner I talked to descibed exactly the way my car was surging and how to fix it. I did as he suggested, which I was going to do anyway, and you know the rest of the story. Fixed.
He also suggested HP Tuner but I am going with EASE and LS!. I think that for guys like us that like to do our own things rather than just purchase supposedly go fast goodies, this software is a requirement.
Definitely look at HP Tuners or EFI Live. Integrated scanning, logging and tuning rock. Your tuner suggested HP Tuners with good reason.
With whats out there now, I wouldn't even consider LS1 edit. Either Version 7 of HP Tuners, or EFI live are the way to go. HP Tuners is not VIN specific but year specific. If you have other GM cars you can tune them too as long as they are one of any two year models you select. Any GM cars in those two years. EFI Live has free upgrades.
Last edited by '06 Quicksilver Z06; Jun 17, 2005 at 06:30 PM.
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From: Sunshine State
Originally Posted by Dave68
I agree that the tuning software would be great to have. How much is it setting you back? Does the manual do a good job of taking you through the proper way to make adjustments?
EB20003 has also posted good info. I need to check it out later. Another tuner I know did recommend HP Tuner.