Hollow or solid cam?
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 1999
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From: At the beach in little Rhody
Hollow or solid cam?
Just picked up an aftermarket cam and it is solid, not hollow like the stock cam. Are all the aftermarket cams solid or is it by manufacturer?
Curious as to others experiences.
Curious as to others experiences.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 23,283
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From: Lake Elsinore, CA
The LS1/6 camshaft is machined out of a steel billet and is rifle-drilled to reduce mass. The aftermarket cams for the LS1/6 I've seen are hollow as well. What brand is it - who sold it to you?
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 22,025
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From: At the beach in little Rhody
It is a Crane. I spoke with Crane, the cam I have is a street performance cam with peak power at approximately 6,200 RPM. They told me that there was no need to drill out this type of cam, and higher RPM cams would be drilled. Drilling does tend to weaken the cam a little. I was just surprised since the stock unit was drilled.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,561
Likes: 448
From: Atlanta metro Ga.
I think you are a "victim" of cost-cutting measures on Crane's end.. That's like building C5 bodies from sheet metal instead of composites; both serve the same purpose, but one leads to higher performance than the other.
If you followed Crane's philosophy to the extreme, you'd end up with an iron block and heads motor w/ accessories that would weigh several hundred pounds more than the unit you currently own.
It's up to you to accept the cost-cutting version of an LSX camshaft; being the weight reduction freak I am, I wouldn't. That's spinning mass as well.
If you followed Crane's philosophy to the extreme, you'd end up with an iron block and heads motor w/ accessories that would weigh several hundred pounds more than the unit you currently own.
It's up to you to accept the cost-cutting version of an LSX camshaft; being the weight reduction freak I am, I wouldn't. That's spinning mass as well.
Last edited by Dan_the_C5_Man; Sep 1, 2005 at 05:53 PM.
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My Comp Cams is hollow. Good for 7000+rpm (if the rest of my engine can stand it)
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 22,025
Likes: 192
From: At the beach in little Rhody
Originally Posted by Dan_the_C5_Man
I think you are a "victim" of cost-cutting measures on Crane's end.. That's like building C5 bodies from sheet metal instead of composites; both serve the same purpose, but one leads to higher performance than the other.
If you followed Crane's philosophy to the extreme, you'd end up with an iron block and heads motor w/ accessories that would weigh several hundred pounds more than the unit you currently own.
It's up to you to accept the cost-cutting version of an LSX camshaft; being the weight reduction freak I am, I wouldn't. That's spinning mass as well.
If you followed Crane's philosophy to the extreme, you'd end up with an iron block and heads motor w/ accessories that would weigh several hundred pounds more than the unit you currently own.
It's up to you to accept the cost-cutting version of an LSX camshaft; being the weight reduction freak I am, I wouldn't. That's spinning mass as well.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,561
Likes: 448
From: Atlanta metro Ga.
Umm, honestly I think you are placating yourself because you don't want (or can't) send this cam back, and believe me, I sympathize..
But think about it. "Drilling the cam makes it "weaker", but we usually drill out our "high RPM" cams", which as anyone could guess would see more stress w/ more RPM's, right? What you should really be asking is "how can the king of penny pinching (GM) justify drilling it out, yet this aftermarket company selling parts at a premium can't".
Don't kid yourself; it is a cost cutting measure, no two ways about it. That's an extra machining step they skipped. It all takes time, and time is $$.
That said, install it and let's see some numbers!
But think about it. "Drilling the cam makes it "weaker", but we usually drill out our "high RPM" cams", which as anyone could guess would see more stress w/ more RPM's, right? What you should really be asking is "how can the king of penny pinching (GM) justify drilling it out, yet this aftermarket company selling parts at a premium can't".
Don't kid yourself; it is a cost cutting measure, no two ways about it. That's an extra machining step they skipped. It all takes time, and time is $$.
That said, install it and let's see some numbers!
Last edited by Dan_the_C5_Man; Sep 2, 2005 at 10:23 AM.
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From: Burlington NC
I agree with Dan the man. It just doesn't make any sence. How many camshafts break at 6200 rpm? How many cams break period? How much stress does a heavy cam have on the all ready weak timing chain?
Randy
Randy
Thread Starter
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Joined: Mar 1999
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From: At the beach in little Rhody
Dug into a couple of my LS1 books, and they state it is drilled for weight savings. I can't weigh the difference due to both cams (stock and new) sitting in a messy oil bath, but based on volume I come up with a 1.8 lb weight savings. Don't think it's a huge issue.
Not sure I got the straight scoop from Crane either. The only thing I like the hole for is a 1/2 pipe fits neatly inside and will be helpful for installation and removal. I'll just make up a handle instead.
Not sure I got the straight scoop from Crane either. The only thing I like the hole for is a 1/2 pipe fits neatly inside and will be helpful for installation and removal. I'll just make up a handle instead.
2nd Gear
Joined: Nov 2022
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Metal, Rpm, and Mass weight
Look... Company Bull-s aside, let's be honest about full spec.
reliability, performance, and cost. Hollow aluminum cams will out-perform ona strips a couple of times. At light load they'll get you better reliability. But Aluminum had an infinite wear curve: aluminum can't be truly forged and tensioned, and will wear until it breaks. Hollw means less mass, but also less tensile strength: physics- Mass+Weight=Mo
Mo=Momentum. Your hightest lobe adds momentum force. Which WILL break the Cam under performance load.
Iron can be forged (and is more heat resistant) more than steel. Steel is lighter than Iron, and can be forged. Also (with less than 5% nickel, tin, aluminum content) has a limited wear limit. It'll stay stable until you hit a certain torque coeffecient for hundreds of years.
Aluminum: wears infinitely, weighs 1/5 the weight of steel at the same density. Way more cpaoble of heat warp. AKA warps fast, lasts a very short time.
in other words: Steel Hollow Cams are the most cost effective way to get long term, high load performance, for the buck. Solid Iron cams on single valve 60's plus setups are super reliable. Modern v-8's need steel, solid cams, that have been forged and balanced for YOUR ENGINE! A tuning co.pany that does in-house balancing will do you the best, cost vs. performance and durability.
Price and Pride, vs. one shot, bolt on performance.
reliability, performance, and cost. Hollow aluminum cams will out-perform ona strips a couple of times. At light load they'll get you better reliability. But Aluminum had an infinite wear curve: aluminum can't be truly forged and tensioned, and will wear until it breaks. Hollw means less mass, but also less tensile strength: physics- Mass+Weight=Mo
Mo=Momentum. Your hightest lobe adds momentum force. Which WILL break the Cam under performance load.
Iron can be forged (and is more heat resistant) more than steel. Steel is lighter than Iron, and can be forged. Also (with less than 5% nickel, tin, aluminum content) has a limited wear limit. It'll stay stable until you hit a certain torque coeffecient for hundreds of years.
Aluminum: wears infinitely, weighs 1/5 the weight of steel at the same density. Way more cpaoble of heat warp. AKA warps fast, lasts a very short time.
in other words: Steel Hollow Cams are the most cost effective way to get long term, high load performance, for the buck. Solid Iron cams on single valve 60's plus setups are super reliable. Modern v-8's need steel, solid cams, that have been forged and balanced for YOUR ENGINE! A tuning co.pany that does in-house balancing will do you the best, cost vs. performance and durability.
Price and Pride, vs. one shot, bolt on performance.
2nd Gear
Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Metal, Rpm, and Mass weight
Look... Company Bull-s aside, let's be honest about full spec.
reliability, performance, and cost. Hollow aluminum cams will out-perform ona strips a couple of times. At light load they'll get you better reliability. But Aluminum had an infinite wear curve: aluminum can't be truly forged and tensioned, and will wear until it breaks. Hollw means less mass, but also less tensile strength: physics- Mass+Weight=Mo
Mo=Momentum. Your hightest lobe adds momentum force. Which WILL break the Cam under performance load.
Iron can be forged (and is more heat resistant) more than steel. Steel is lighter than Iron, and can be forged. Also (with less than 5% nickel, tin, aluminum content) has a limited wear limit. It'll stay stable until you hit a certain torque coeffecient for hundreds of years.
Aluminum: wears infinitely, weighs 1/5 the weight of steel at the same density. Way more cpaoble of heat warp. AKA warps fast, lasts a very short time.
in other words: Steel Hollow Cams are the most cost effective way to get long term, high load performance, for the buck. Solid Iron cams on single valve 60's plus setups are super reliable. Modern v-8's need steel, solid cams, that have been forged and balanced for YOUR ENGINE! A tuning co.pany that does in-house balancing will do you the best, cost vs. performance and durability.
Price and Pride, vs. one shot, bolt on performance.
reliability, performance, and cost. Hollow aluminum cams will out-perform ona strips a couple of times. At light load they'll get you better reliability. But Aluminum had an infinite wear curve: aluminum can't be truly forged and tensioned, and will wear until it breaks. Hollw means less mass, but also less tensile strength: physics- Mass+Weight=Mo
Mo=Momentum. Your hightest lobe adds momentum force. Which WILL break the Cam under performance load.
Iron can be forged (and is more heat resistant) more than steel. Steel is lighter than Iron, and can be forged. Also (with less than 5% nickel, tin, aluminum content) has a limited wear limit. It'll stay stable until you hit a certain torque coeffecient for hundreds of years.
Aluminum: wears infinitely, weighs 1/5 the weight of steel at the same density. Way more cpaoble of heat warp. AKA warps fast, lasts a very short time.
in other words: Steel Hollow Cams are the most cost effective way to get long term, high load performance, for the buck. Solid Iron cams on single valve 60's plus setups are super reliable. Modern v-8's need steel, solid cams, that have been forged and balanced for YOUR ENGINE! A tuning co.pany that does in-house balancing will do you the best, cost vs. performance and durability.
Price and Pride, vs. one shot, bolt on performance.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2021
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From: Florida
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Look... Company Bull-s aside, let's be honest about full spec.
reliability, performance, and cost. Hollow aluminum cams will out-perform ona strips a couple of times. At light load they'll get you better reliability. But Aluminum had an infinite wear curve: aluminum can't be truly forged and tensioned, and will wear until it breaks. Hollw means less mass, but also less tensile strength: physics- Mass+Weight=Mo
Mo=Momentum. Your hightest lobe adds momentum force. Which WILL break the Cam under performance load.
Iron can be forged (and is more heat resistant) more than steel. Steel is lighter than Iron, and can be forged. Also (with less than 5% nickel, tin, aluminum content) has a limited wear limit. It'll stay stable until you hit a certain torque coeffecient for hundreds of years.
Aluminum: wears infinitely, weighs 1/5 the weight of steel at the same density. Way more cpaoble of heat warp. AKA warps fast, lasts a very short time.
in other words: Steel Hollow Cams are the most cost effective way to get long term, high load performance, for the buck. Solid Iron cams on single valve 60's plus setups are super reliable. Modern v-8's need steel, solid cams, that have been forged and balanced for YOUR ENGINE! A tuning co.pany that does in-house balancing will do you the best, cost vs. performance and durability.
Price and Pride, vs. one shot, bolt on performance.
reliability, performance, and cost. Hollow aluminum cams will out-perform ona strips a couple of times. At light load they'll get you better reliability. But Aluminum had an infinite wear curve: aluminum can't be truly forged and tensioned, and will wear until it breaks. Hollw means less mass, but also less tensile strength: physics- Mass+Weight=Mo
Mo=Momentum. Your hightest lobe adds momentum force. Which WILL break the Cam under performance load.
Iron can be forged (and is more heat resistant) more than steel. Steel is lighter than Iron, and can be forged. Also (with less than 5% nickel, tin, aluminum content) has a limited wear limit. It'll stay stable until you hit a certain torque coeffecient for hundreds of years.
Aluminum: wears infinitely, weighs 1/5 the weight of steel at the same density. Way more cpaoble of heat warp. AKA warps fast, lasts a very short time.
in other words: Steel Hollow Cams are the most cost effective way to get long term, high load performance, for the buck. Solid Iron cams on single valve 60's plus setups are super reliable. Modern v-8's need steel, solid cams, that have been forged and balanced for YOUR ENGINE! A tuning co.pany that does in-house balancing will do you the best, cost vs. performance and durability.
Price and Pride, vs. one shot, bolt on performance.
You do realize you’re responding to a 17 year old thread, no?
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,956
Likes: 520
From: Da U.P.
Look... Company Bull-s aside, let's be honest about full spec.
reliability, performance, and cost. Hollow aluminum cams will out-perform ona strips a couple of times. At light load they'll get you better reliability. But Aluminum had an infinite wear curve: aluminum can't be truly forged and tensioned, and will wear until it breaks. Hollw means less mass, but also less tensile strength: physics- Mass+Weight=Mo
Mo=Momentum. Your hightest lobe adds momentum force. Which WILL break the Cam under performance load.
Iron can be forged (and is more heat resistant) more than steel. Steel is lighter than Iron, and can be forged. Also (with less than 5% nickel, tin, aluminum content) has a limited wear limit. It'll stay stable until you hit a certain torque coeffecient for hundreds of years.
Aluminum: wears infinitely, weighs 1/5 the weight of steel at the same density. Way more cpaoble of heat warp. AKA warps fast, lasts a very short time.
in other words: Steel Hollow Cams are the most cost effective way to get long term, high load performance, for the buck. Solid Iron cams on single valve 60's plus setups are super reliable. Modern v-8's need steel, solid cams, that have been forged and balanced for YOUR ENGINE! A tuning co.pany that does in-house balancing will do you the best, cost vs. performance and durability.
Price and Pride, vs. one shot, bolt on performance.
reliability, performance, and cost. Hollow aluminum cams will out-perform ona strips a couple of times. At light load they'll get you better reliability. But Aluminum had an infinite wear curve: aluminum can't be truly forged and tensioned, and will wear until it breaks. Hollw means less mass, but also less tensile strength: physics- Mass+Weight=Mo
Mo=Momentum. Your hightest lobe adds momentum force. Which WILL break the Cam under performance load.
Iron can be forged (and is more heat resistant) more than steel. Steel is lighter than Iron, and can be forged. Also (with less than 5% nickel, tin, aluminum content) has a limited wear limit. It'll stay stable until you hit a certain torque coeffecient for hundreds of years.
Aluminum: wears infinitely, weighs 1/5 the weight of steel at the same density. Way more cpaoble of heat warp. AKA warps fast, lasts a very short time.
in other words: Steel Hollow Cams are the most cost effective way to get long term, high load performance, for the buck. Solid Iron cams on single valve 60's plus setups are super reliable. Modern v-8's need steel, solid cams, that have been forged and balanced for YOUR ENGINE! A tuning co.pany that does in-house balancing will do you the best, cost vs. performance and durability.
Price and Pride, vs. one shot, bolt on performance.
