Cluth replacement...yeah I know...
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 866
Likes: 0
From: Placerville Ca
Originally Posted by chuckster
Read on... The LS7 cannot be slipped without glazing bad over 3500 rpms.. Ranger has documented this...
By "slipping the clutch", I mean normal street driving where you ease the clutch out for normal smooth shifts. Race clutch's drive differently on the street. Aluminum flywheels require higher rpm's. If this fella wants a DD that drives nice, but is beefier than stock, then I still say the LS7 isn't the worse choice out there and it'll do the job.
Yes, Ranger has documented he can destroy an LS7 clutch. He doesn't understand why his clutch is starting to show signs of abuse after only 50 race launches dumping it mega-hard on rpm's north of 3500 off the line! I'm not sure what clutch he's gonna get next, but this much I am sure of.... he'll destroy it too. Ranger is a dedicated, hard core racer driving a low 11 second car, who I feel is expecting too much from a factory type clutch. Even he doesn't know what clutch he'll try next. Bottom line is if you hard core race an 11 second car (our boy posting here only has 400 ponies, so he's what... maybe the high 12's), you outta be prepared for stuff to break and bring your wallet. I enjoy reading Ranger's posts and marvel at how well his equipment stands up. Do I correctly recall him mentioning he replaces the clutch fluids something like every week? I don't recall if he's running stock tires or racing slicks, I'm pretty sure he is running DR's that can't be fun for the clutch either.
The way I read the post is this fella isn't planning to spend his every waking hour at the drags abusing his equipment to shave .01 seconds.
Nothing against Ranger, but let's all put his comments in correct context to make an honest and fair evaluation in giving advise to members. Personally the way I read his comments is that's a pretty darn good endorsement of the LS7 - if all he's done so far is glaze the damn thing. At the end of the day, even Ranger admits:
I doubt your clutch would show any sign of failure or impending failure. My clutch does what your did, when I don't make a clean, fast release. But it bounces back for the next pass and has done so repeatedly through 47 and counting.
That's about as good as it gets with any clutch. I still say the LS7 clutch has street maners and driveability. Ranger needs to get a clutch that takes both feet to push in - maybe something from the John Force collection? Race clutches don't slip and they aren't fun in traffic for a DD.
When ever I read Ranger's comments on the LS7 clutch, it conjures up an image of a guy taking a test drive in a new vette with the salesman sitting along side him. They exit the showroom and go a short way down the road when the buyer say's to the salesman "can I see what she'll do"... the salesman says "okay". Bringing the car to a dead stop he brings the rpm's up to 4000 and hammers the clutch - away they go pinned to their seats in a blaze of sound and smoke. Finally (with both of them wearing broad smiles), the buyer brings the car to another stop.... looks over at the salesman and says "that was fun wasn't it"... to which the salesman sheepisly nods yes (trying to avoid eye contact). Next the buyer ebows the salesman and announces - "you know what that was so much fun, I'm going to do it 47 more times"!
Anyone who drives a car like that outta consider the extended warranty.... lol Anyway that's the image I always get reading a Ranger post and his dissapointment with parts that just don't seem to measure up.
.
Last edited by SultansDiamond; Oct 24, 2006 at 01:10 AM.
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Joined: Mar 1999
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From: At the beach in little Rhody
The one thing I don't like about the LS7 clutch is the heavy flywheel. I have seen several guys state the car is much softer in the lower RPM's because of it. This is one of the reasons I am now favoring the Tex clutch, flywheel decision aside.
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Joined: Mar 2000
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From: Palm City Florida
Originally Posted by SultansDiamond
By "slipping the clutch", I mean normal street driving where you ease the clutch out for normal smooth shifts. Race clutch's drive differently on the street. Aluminum flywheels require higher rpm's. If this fella wants a DD that drives nice, but is beefier than stock, then I still say the LS7 isn't the worse choice out there and it'll do the job.
Yes, Ranger has documented he can destroy an LS7 clutch. He doesn't understand why his clutch is starting to show signs of abuse after only 50 race launches dumping it mega-hard on rpm's north of 3500 off the line! I'm not sure what clutch he's gonna get next, but this much I am sure of.... he'll destroy it too. Ranger is a dedicated, hard core racer driving a low 11 second car, who I feel is expecting too much from a factory type clutch. Even he doesn't know what clutch he'll try next. Bottom line is if you hard core race an 11 second car (our boy posting here only has 400 ponies, so he's what... maybe the high 12's), you outta be prepared for stuff to break and bring your wallet. I enjoy reading Ranger's posts and marvel at how well his equipment stands up. Do I correctly recall him mentioning he replaces the clutch fluids something like every week? I don't recall if he's running stock tires or racing slicks, I'm pretty sure he is running DR's that can't be fun for the clutch either.
The way I read the post is this fella isn't planning to spend his every waking hour at the drags abusing his equipment to shave .01 seconds.
Nothing against Ranger, but let's all put his comments in correct context to make an honest and fair evaluation in giving advise to members. Personally the way I read his comments is that's a pretty darn good endorsement of the LS7 - if all he's done so far is glaze the damn thing. At the end of the day, even Ranger admits:
That's about as good as it gets with any clutch. I still say the LS7 clutch has street maners and driveability. Ranger needs to get a clutch that takes both feet to push in - maybe something from the John Force collection? Race clutches don't slip and they aren't fun in traffic for a DD.
When ever I read Ranger's comments on the LS7 clutch, it conjures up an image of a guy taking a test drive in a new vette with the salesman sitting along side him. They exit the showroom and go a short way down the road when the buyer say's to the salesman "can I see what she'll do"... the salesman says "okay". Bringing the car to a dead stop he brings the rpm's up to 4000 and hammers the clutch - away they go pinned to their seats in a blaze of sound and smoke. Finally (with both of them wearing broad smiles), the buyer brings the car to another stop.... looks over at the salesman and says "that was fun wasn't it"... to which the salesman sheepisly nods yes (trying to avoid eye contact). Next the buyer ebows the salesman and announces - "you know what that was so much fun, I'm going to do it 47 more times"!
Anyone who drives a car like that outta consider the extended warranty.... lol Anyway that's the image I always get reading a Ranger post and his dissapointment with parts that just don't seem to measure up.
.
Yes, Ranger has documented he can destroy an LS7 clutch. He doesn't understand why his clutch is starting to show signs of abuse after only 50 race launches dumping it mega-hard on rpm's north of 3500 off the line! I'm not sure what clutch he's gonna get next, but this much I am sure of.... he'll destroy it too. Ranger is a dedicated, hard core racer driving a low 11 second car, who I feel is expecting too much from a factory type clutch. Even he doesn't know what clutch he'll try next. Bottom line is if you hard core race an 11 second car (our boy posting here only has 400 ponies, so he's what... maybe the high 12's), you outta be prepared for stuff to break and bring your wallet. I enjoy reading Ranger's posts and marvel at how well his equipment stands up. Do I correctly recall him mentioning he replaces the clutch fluids something like every week? I don't recall if he's running stock tires or racing slicks, I'm pretty sure he is running DR's that can't be fun for the clutch either.
The way I read the post is this fella isn't planning to spend his every waking hour at the drags abusing his equipment to shave .01 seconds.
Nothing against Ranger, but let's all put his comments in correct context to make an honest and fair evaluation in giving advise to members. Personally the way I read his comments is that's a pretty darn good endorsement of the LS7 - if all he's done so far is glaze the damn thing. At the end of the day, even Ranger admits:
That's about as good as it gets with any clutch. I still say the LS7 clutch has street maners and driveability. Ranger needs to get a clutch that takes both feet to push in - maybe something from the John Force collection? Race clutches don't slip and they aren't fun in traffic for a DD.
When ever I read Ranger's comments on the LS7 clutch, it conjures up an image of a guy taking a test drive in a new vette with the salesman sitting along side him. They exit the showroom and go a short way down the road when the buyer say's to the salesman "can I see what she'll do"... the salesman says "okay". Bringing the car to a dead stop he brings the rpm's up to 4000 and hammers the clutch - away they go pinned to their seats in a blaze of sound and smoke. Finally (with both of them wearing broad smiles), the buyer brings the car to another stop.... looks over at the salesman and says "that was fun wasn't it"... to which the salesman sheepisly nods yes (trying to avoid eye contact). Next the buyer ebows the salesman and announces - "you know what that was so much fun, I'm going to do it 47 more times"!
Anyone who drives a car like that outta consider the extended warranty.... lol Anyway that's the image I always get reading a Ranger post and his dissapointment with parts that just don't seem to measure up.
.
Dude, I love your description of Ranger.. I actually laughed out loud because I pictured it in my mind the way you described it..
Anyway.. As far as 400hp being high 12's... I think that driven properly it can be an 11 second car..
I have exactly 345rwhp and 346rwtq and I have run 12.55 using a Stock LS1 Clutch.. It would not hold anything after 3000 rpms if I slipped it too much..
I would rather have a clutch that is overkill with Street manners then a clutch that WAY too many folks here are bashing.. Ranger is not the only one.. look for Phils C5 Vette here are a few...
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1495634
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1516813
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1517800
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 866
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From: Placerville Ca
Originally Posted by vettenuts
The one thing I don't like about the LS7 clutch is the heavy flywheel. I have seen several guys state the car is much softer in the lower RPM's because of it. This is one of the reasons I am now favoring the Tex clutch, flywheel decision aside.
There is a reason Detroit puts in steel flywheels. Here is what little I think I know about them.
The lightweight ones mean you can shift gears faster, but in normal driving you have to maintain higher rpm's to move forward from a stop. How much fun is that for 2 hours on an LA freeway. Plus with a stock shifter you ain't gonna be moving through the gears all that quickly.
One of the reasons, I originally mentioned the Textrilla with hollow steel flywheel is it's a compromise flywheel which is heavier than aluminum and less than stock weight. Plus from all I've read the Tex clutch is mega strong. Don't have one, never had - so I don't know the negatives.
The only clutch I can intelligently speak about is the LS7 and can say I do not notice any difference from the original one.
Last edited by SultansDiamond; Oct 24, 2006 at 12:58 PM.
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Joined: Aug 2000
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From: Central Florida
Originally Posted by SultansDiamond
By "slipping the clutch", I mean normal street driving where you ease the clutch out for normal smooth shifts. Race clutch's drive differently on the street. Aluminum flywheels require higher rpm's. If this fella wants a DD that drives nice, but is beefier than stock, then I still say the LS7 isn't the worse choice out there and it'll do the job.
Yes, Ranger has documented he can destroy an LS7 clutch. He doesn't understand why his clutch is starting to show signs of abuse after only 50 race launches dumping it mega-hard on rpm's north of 3500 off the line! I'm not sure what clutch he's gonna get next, but this much I am sure of.... he'll destroy it too. Ranger is a dedicated, hard core racer driving a low 11 second car, who I feel is expecting too much from a factory type clutch. Even he doesn't know what clutch he'll try next. Bottom line is if you hard core race an 11 second car (our boy posting here only has 400 ponies, so he's what... maybe the high 12's), you outta be prepared for stuff to break and bring your wallet. I enjoy reading Ranger's posts and marvel at how well his equipment stands up. Do I correctly recall him mentioning he replaces the clutch fluids something like every week? I don't recall if he's running stock tires or racing slicks, I'm pretty sure he is running DR's that can't be fun for the clutch either.
The way I read the post is this fella isn't planning to spend his every waking hour at the drags abusing his equipment to shave .01 seconds.
Nothing against Ranger, but let's all put his comments in correct context to make an honest and fair evaluation in giving advise to members. Personally the way I read his comments is that's a pretty darn good endorsement of the LS7 - if all he's done so far is glaze the damn thing. At the end of the day, even Ranger admits:
That's about as good as it gets with any clutch. I still say the LS7 clutch has street maners and driveability. Ranger needs to get a clutch that takes both feet to push in - maybe something from the John Force collection? Race clutches don't slip and they aren't fun in traffic for a DD.
When ever I read Ranger's comments on the LS7 clutch, it conjures up an image of a guy taking a test drive in a new vette with the salesman sitting along side him. They exit the showroom and go a short way down the road when the buyer say's to the salesman "can I see what she'll do"... the salesman says "okay". Bringing the car to a dead stop he brings the rpm's up to 4000 and hammers the clutch - away they go pinned to their seats in a blaze of sound and smoke. Finally (with both of them wearing broad smiles), the buyer brings the car to another stop.... looks over at the salesman and says "that was fun wasn't it"... to which the salesman sheepisly nods yes (trying to avoid eye contact). Next the buyer ebows the salesman and announces - "you know what that was so much fun, I'm going to do it 47 more times"!
Anyone who drives a car like that outta consider the extended warranty.... lol Anyway that's the image I always get reading a Ranger post and his dissapointment with parts that just don't seem to measure up.
.
Yes, Ranger has documented he can destroy an LS7 clutch. He doesn't understand why his clutch is starting to show signs of abuse after only 50 race launches dumping it mega-hard on rpm's north of 3500 off the line! I'm not sure what clutch he's gonna get next, but this much I am sure of.... he'll destroy it too. Ranger is a dedicated, hard core racer driving a low 11 second car, who I feel is expecting too much from a factory type clutch. Even he doesn't know what clutch he'll try next. Bottom line is if you hard core race an 11 second car (our boy posting here only has 400 ponies, so he's what... maybe the high 12's), you outta be prepared for stuff to break and bring your wallet. I enjoy reading Ranger's posts and marvel at how well his equipment stands up. Do I correctly recall him mentioning he replaces the clutch fluids something like every week? I don't recall if he's running stock tires or racing slicks, I'm pretty sure he is running DR's that can't be fun for the clutch either.
The way I read the post is this fella isn't planning to spend his every waking hour at the drags abusing his equipment to shave .01 seconds.
Nothing against Ranger, but let's all put his comments in correct context to make an honest and fair evaluation in giving advise to members. Personally the way I read his comments is that's a pretty darn good endorsement of the LS7 - if all he's done so far is glaze the damn thing. At the end of the day, even Ranger admits:
That's about as good as it gets with any clutch. I still say the LS7 clutch has street maners and driveability. Ranger needs to get a clutch that takes both feet to push in - maybe something from the John Force collection? Race clutches don't slip and they aren't fun in traffic for a DD.
When ever I read Ranger's comments on the LS7 clutch, it conjures up an image of a guy taking a test drive in a new vette with the salesman sitting along side him. They exit the showroom and go a short way down the road when the buyer say's to the salesman "can I see what she'll do"... the salesman says "okay". Bringing the car to a dead stop he brings the rpm's up to 4000 and hammers the clutch - away they go pinned to their seats in a blaze of sound and smoke. Finally (with both of them wearing broad smiles), the buyer brings the car to another stop.... looks over at the salesman and says "that was fun wasn't it"... to which the salesman sheepisly nods yes (trying to avoid eye contact). Next the buyer ebows the salesman and announces - "you know what that was so much fun, I'm going to do it 47 more times"!
Anyone who drives a car like that outta consider the extended warranty.... lol Anyway that's the image I always get reading a Ranger post and his dissapointment with parts that just don't seem to measure up.
.
Couple of points.
(1) I have never written a word in 6K posts advocating "clutch dumps." So attibuting that to me is plain wrong.
(2) C5 Z06 clutch supported launch rpms of 4000-6000 without complaint. LS7 clutch complains about 3500. That's not progress. That's a compromise to preclude strong launches. Every LS7 clutch owner that makes passes complains about the LS7 clutch. Few ever did about the LS6 clutch. So I'm in good company.
(3) I keep my cars stock while you choose to mod yours including the engine internals.
(4) My LS7 clutch has not failed and is not failing. And I've never written a word different from that. So saying that I have destroyed an LS7 clutch is
Here, for example is what I wrote yesterday:
Originally Posted by Ranger
Like all clutches, the LS7 clutch has a personality...and not a pleasant one.
It just will not accept:
(1) a high launch rpm, period. 4K is the limit and I'm not having luck above 3600.
(2) any slip on the engagement. If you slip it more than, say 6 feet of forward launch movement, at above 2900 rpm, the clutch will glaze. That means, the pedal will hang and the clamping power is near zero until it cools and the pedal is returned to the full-out position.
This is not really a sign of a defective clutch; it's reflective of a defective design. Changing to another stock clutch will not create a new personality.
What I've done through my 47 passes is develop a routine that keeps my launch rpm at 3500-3600 max and gets the clutch out fast. Not a side-step, not a dump. Just a fast release.Clutch all the way out by 6 feet of forward movement. If I lose focus and give it some unintentional slip, it will glaze. Again, changing to a new clutch won't solve anything.
There are two alternatives:
(1) Mod the driver's technique, the course I follow or
(2) Go to an aftermarket clutch; but there is absolutely no sure fire clutch solution in the aftermarket, as of today. And $1500-2500 including installation is pretty expensive to do repeatedly, while looking for a reliable clutch.
In the meantime, 355spider, I doubt your clutch would show any sign of failure or impending failure. My clutch does what yours did, when I don't make a clean, fast release. But it bounces back for the next pass and has done so repeatedly through 47 and counting....
It just will not accept:
(1) a high launch rpm, period. 4K is the limit and I'm not having luck above 3600.
(2) any slip on the engagement. If you slip it more than, say 6 feet of forward launch movement, at above 2900 rpm, the clutch will glaze. That means, the pedal will hang and the clamping power is near zero until it cools and the pedal is returned to the full-out position.
This is not really a sign of a defective clutch; it's reflective of a defective design. Changing to another stock clutch will not create a new personality.
What I've done through my 47 passes is develop a routine that keeps my launch rpm at 3500-3600 max and gets the clutch out fast. Not a side-step, not a dump. Just a fast release.Clutch all the way out by 6 feet of forward movement. If I lose focus and give it some unintentional slip, it will glaze. Again, changing to a new clutch won't solve anything.
There are two alternatives:
(1) Mod the driver's technique, the course I follow or
(2) Go to an aftermarket clutch; but there is absolutely no sure fire clutch solution in the aftermarket, as of today. And $1500-2500 including installation is pretty expensive to do repeatedly, while looking for a reliable clutch.
In the meantime, 355spider, I doubt your clutch would show any sign of failure or impending failure. My clutch does what yours did, when I don't make a clean, fast release. But it bounces back for the next pass and has done so repeatedly through 47 and counting....
If you are happy with your LS7 clutch, that's great.
But to say that those who think it's a weak element in a 400+ rwhp Corvette are shameless abusers, is ridiculous. The C5Z had a world-class clutch. The C6Z has a very pale imitation of a world-class clutch. But it may satisfy those who never launch a car, such as yourself perhaps.
Ranger
Last edited by Ranger; Oct 24, 2006 at 01:31 PM.
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Ok....take this pizzin match elsewhere....I ask for recommendations not a bunch of please read the original post, car specs and give input
Thank you
please read the original post, car specs and give inputThank you
Pro
Joined: Nov 2004
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From: Hermosa Beach CA
How can we accurately recommend a clutch when you haven't mentioned a word regarding your driving habits? I know guys "02GT350" that would consider their cars daily drivers... but from my perspective would be considered pretty damn aggressive *****-to-the-wall driving.
If you don't race it and are right around 400 HP with no plans to considerably increase that anytime soon, the C5Z clutch is perfect for you.
If you don't race it and are right around 400 HP with no plans to considerably increase that anytime soon, the C5Z clutch is perfect for you.
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Joined: May 2004
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From: Sugar Land TX
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Originally Posted by pewter99
need a new clutch for an 02....putting down just under 400rwhp. Daily driver....
gimme pros and cons of your choice...
Thanks
gimme pros and cons of your choice...
Thanks
Rob G.
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From: Palm City Florida
Originally Posted by RobG03Z06
IMO....put in another stock clutch. At under 400rwhp, the stock clutch should hold up fine. How many miles on your '02 and what kind of driving?
Rob G.
Rob G.
But it costs as much in labor as it does for the clutch... So I always recommend UPGRADING... then if he wants to every take it to the track or try a little road racing... It will not come back to haunt him..
There are plenty of better clutches than stock that have reported great daily street manors.
I really think his relatively average HP output should be secondary in deciding which clutch to go with..
I picked a Cartek.. Capable of holding over 600HP... I have 345rwhp.. I could care less... that means the clutch won't get half the beating expected and last longer.. I chose it simply because it has rave reviews. the Cartek racers in NJ put them through hell.. and they last..
Thay all say the clutch has near stock feel and street manors..
Now I can confidently Drag with it.. or go Forced induction... without the added expense..... Just my humble .02 cents
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Originally Posted by Architect
How can we accurately recommend a clutch when you haven't mentioned a word regarding your driving habits? I know guys "02GT350" that would consider their cars daily drivers... but from my perspective would be considered pretty damn aggressive *****-to-the-wall driving.
If you don't race it and are right around 400 HP with no plans to considerably increase that anytime soon, the C5Z clutch is perfect for you.
If you don't race it and are right around 400 HP with no plans to considerably increase that anytime soon, the C5Z clutch is perfect for you.
well I think Daily Driver pretty muchs sums it up
and we all know we drive a little "spirited" as it were so...take it from there I am thinking that the Z06 clutch or the LS7 would be fine......
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Originally Posted by GONE99
If you plan on doing any racing do not use the LS7 clutch.
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Originally Posted by pewter99
well I think Daily Driver pretty muchs sums it up and we all know we drive a little "spirited" as it were so...take it from there
and we all know we drive a little "spirited" as it were so...take it from there .And a few passes down the track will probably happen
Last edited by yellowvette837; Oct 24, 2006 at 08:56 PM.
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Originally Posted by yellowvette837
Shall we get a few other opnions on my driving "spirited" :bb .
And a fe passes down the track will probably happen
.And a fe passes down the track will probably happen
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Originally Posted by pewter99
well you haven't killed my car yet
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Originally Posted by chuckster
So Other than a little Flirting... what have you decided?
what have you decided? Not sure of a decision
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Originally Posted by pewter99
well I think Daily Driver pretty muchs sums it up and we all know we drive a little "spirited" as it were so...take it from there
I am thinking that the Z06 clutch or the LS7 would be fine......
and we all know we drive a little "spirited" as it were so...take it from there I am thinking that the Z06 clutch or the LS7 would be fine......
I currently have the LS7 clutch with a Findanza flywheel and the drivability is like stock even with the alluminum flywheel. I decided on the alluminum flywheel because of all the complaints on how heavy the LS7 clutch setup is with the stock flywheel. Hope this helps.
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From: East Peoria Illinois
Originally Posted by yellowvette837
Shall we get a few other opnions on my driving "spirited" :bb .
And a few passes down the track will probably happen
.And a few passes down the track will probably happen
Dosnt mean that its not babied though