HELP: Front Cam Bearing Damage... Please Look!
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 25,889
Likes: 7
From: Virginia Beach
CI 3-5-6-7-8 Veteran
Ok... I'm back to worrying a little... I posted up on www.corvettemechanic.com. The site is run by C4C5Specialist and is normally a great resource for tech questions. One engine builder says "do not sweat it as cam bearings only see a load on the very bottom."
However C4C5Specialist posted the following...
So... does that bearing look overly worn for a car w/ 70k that has run 3/4 HPDE's a year, many auto-x's and sees redline almost daily?
I'd really like another few years out of this motor before I put a new one in.
However C4C5Specialist posted the following...
HI there,
I too agree to change the cam bearings.
The copper in these photos is my concern, as is the difficulty of getting the old cam OUT!!
I would take a check of the cam shaft to make sure its straight, as well as making sure the cam bearins are lined correctly.
If the cam wasnt straight, therein could be the issue.
Cam bearings on Gen 3 motors get the OIL FIRST, then it is sent down to the mains.
With that type of wear, it would be suggested to find out WHY!!
Allthebest, c4c5
I too agree to change the cam bearings.
The copper in these photos is my concern, as is the difficulty of getting the old cam OUT!!
I would take a check of the cam shaft to make sure its straight, as well as making sure the cam bearins are lined correctly.
If the cam wasnt straight, therein could be the issue.
Cam bearings on Gen 3 motors get the OIL FIRST, then it is sent down to the mains.
With that type of wear, it would be suggested to find out WHY!!
Allthebest, c4c5
I'd really like another few years out of this motor before I put a new one in.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 25,889
Likes: 7
From: Virginia Beach
CI 3-5-6-7-8 Veteran
Hmmm then I read this froom ls1tech...
Originally Posted by GuitsBoy
Anyone who's familiar with the LS1 should be used to seeing a lot of copper color on our cam bearings. The bulk o fthe bearing seems to be copper and even low milage motors seem to wear through the thin grey coating. Nothing to worry about.
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 2,498
Likes: 4
From: Brentwood TN
You REALLY need to replace the bearings. The cam bearing removal/installation tool may be available at a local auto parts store for rent, and maybe only a deposit that is refunded when you return the tool. The cam bearings, delivered, will be less than $35.00. Take care to install them properly and pre-lube properly before you hit the starter. 
I don't think I can agree with the "copper showing is no problem and the bearing is mostly made of copper". The statement is true but if the actual bearing surface the cam rides on when the bearing is new were not important the bearing wouldn't have the lead alloy overlay on the copper.
Charlie
I don't think I can agree with the "copper showing is no problem and the bearing is mostly made of copper". The statement is true but if the actual bearing surface the cam rides on when the bearing is new were not important the bearing wouldn't have the lead alloy overlay on the copper.
Charlie
Last edited by cruisemon; Jan 10, 2007 at 10:09 AM.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 25,889
Likes: 7
From: Virginia Beach
CI 3-5-6-7-8 Veteran
You REALLY need to replace the bearings. The cam bearing removal/installation tool may be available at a local auto parts store for rent, and maybe only a deposit that is refunded when you return the tool. The cam bearings, delivered, will be less than $35.00. Take care to install them properly and pre-lube properly before you hit the starter.
I don't think I can agree with the "copper showing is no problem and the bearing is mostly made of copper". The statement is true but if the actual bearing surface the cam rides on when the bearing is new were not important the bearing wouldn't have the lead alloy overlay on the copper.
Charlie
I don't think I can agree with the "copper showing is no problem and the bearing is mostly made of copper". The statement is true but if the actual bearing surface the cam rides on when the bearing is new were not important the bearing wouldn't have the lead alloy overlay on the copper.
Charlie
I don't trust myself to do something like that... I wouldn't know the first thing about using the bearing tool and how to prevent them from falling into the motor.If it aint' broke dont' fix it... I'm trying to figure out of these bearings are truly "broke".
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 2,498
Likes: 4
From: Brentwood TN
Charlie
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 25,889
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From: Virginia Beach
CI 3-5-6-7-8 Veteran
Thanks... after speaking w/ a couple of well known tuners on this board I will proceed w/ the cam install. You an change the bearing from the front, but you can't verify their allignment and you run the risk of not installing them square.
Furthermore, it seems the copper showing is normal for an LSX motor.
I'm going to proceed... and continue to beat the **** out of the car. If she goes... she goes... I doubt she will.
Furthermore, it seems the copper showing is normal for an LSX motor.
I'm going to proceed... and continue to beat the **** out of the car. If she goes... she goes... I doubt she will.
Racer
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 455
Likes: 11
From: Clovis CA
wow, big risk to be lazy. cam bearings are a bit of a pain to install properly, but really not that hard. i've done them in the car before and although it's more time consuming than on an engine stand, it's a LOT quicker than pulling the engine and rebuilding because the cam seizes, snaps, hangs a few valves, lets the valves pop a piston or two, snap a rod and windows the block for you. but then again, it's always fun to laugh when i see a buddy do something silly like keep running scored and worn bearings just to save a buck.
Safety Car
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,799
Likes: 1
From: Northern Virginia
St. Jude Donor '08
I am no expert, but I know one. Why don't you try pming road rebel (aka Dr. Phil) and get his take. Other possibility is ECS.
Good luck, I hope everything works out for ya!
Good luck, I hope everything works out for ya!
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Michael S. Palmer
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,561
Likes: 448
From: Atlanta metro Ga.
Some of the responses here are quite entertaining..
We've progressed into concerns with cams that aren't straight and the possibility of snapping in half destroying the motor..
No doubt you put scratches in the cam bearing surfaces man-handling that cam out of the motor.
In your particular situation you are probably better off just smoothing out what you can and proceed. Another practical option would be to just replace that end bearing.
Is it really possible that you are responsible for the large nick on the edge? Does it have a smooth or sharp edge? If it wasn't there before the cam de-install, you really must have been rough with the removal; lesson learned. If it was there previously, that should give you a clue not to sweat the smaller stuff.
We've progressed into concerns with cams that aren't straight and the possibility of snapping in half destroying the motor..
No doubt you put scratches in the cam bearing surfaces man-handling that cam out of the motor.
In your particular situation you are probably better off just smoothing out what you can and proceed. Another practical option would be to just replace that end bearing.
Is it really possible that you are responsible for the large nick on the edge? Does it have a smooth or sharp edge? If it wasn't there before the cam de-install, you really must have been rough with the removal; lesson learned. If it was there previously, that should give you a clue not to sweat the smaller stuff.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 25,889
Likes: 7
From: Virginia Beach
CI 3-5-6-7-8 Veteran
Some of the responses here are quite entertaining..
We've progressed into concerns with cams that aren't straight and the possibility of snapping in half destroying the motor..
No doubt you put scratches in the cam bearing surfaces man-handling that cam out of the motor.
In your particular situation you are probably better off just smoothing out what you can and proceed. Another practical option would be to just replace that end bearing.
Is it really possible that you are responsible for the large nick on the edge? Does it have a smooth or sharp edge? If it wasn't there before the cam de-install, you really must have been rough with the removal; lesson learned. If it was there previously, that should give you a clue not to sweat the smaller stuff.
We've progressed into concerns with cams that aren't straight and the possibility of snapping in half destroying the motor..
No doubt you put scratches in the cam bearing surfaces man-handling that cam out of the motor.
In your particular situation you are probably better off just smoothing out what you can and proceed. Another practical option would be to just replace that end bearing.
Is it really possible that you are responsible for the large nick on the edge? Does it have a smooth or sharp edge? If it wasn't there before the cam de-install, you really must have been rough with the removal; lesson learned. If it was there previously, that should give you a clue not to sweat the smaller stuff.
I really don't know if the nicks were there... I didn't look.... however I assure you I didn't beat the cam out... I didn't ever force it... I slowly removed it but had some hangups.
The only thing I can think of is when I had the cam 4" out and it got kind of cocked down.... it got to where it didn't want to freely rotate.. so I kept messing w/ it... and I slowly turned it clockwise until it wouldn't turn anymore, but never forced it... then pushed the cam back in and finally got it out all the way.
Oh well.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 25,889
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From: Virginia Beach
CI 3-5-6-7-8 Veteran
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,561
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From: Atlanta metro Ga.
My "small stuff" comment implied that if the front bearing had those nicks from the factory build, you've put 70K hard, trouble-free miles on it since then..
BTW, you do understand those rods you are using to keep the lifters from falling DO NOT retain them in the lifter trays, and if they do drop from the trays onto the rods, when you put the cam back in it will hang on those dropped lifters.
It's always best to swap the cam in and out as quickly as possible to avoid this issue.
If they do fall out of the trays, you'll need to use a magnet to pull it back up during the cam reinstall.
BTW, you do understand those rods you are using to keep the lifters from falling DO NOT retain them in the lifter trays, and if they do drop from the trays onto the rods, when you put the cam back in it will hang on those dropped lifters.
It's always best to swap the cam in and out as quickly as possible to avoid this issue.
If they do fall out of the trays, you'll need to use a magnet to pull it back up during the cam reinstall.
Former Vendor
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 9,615
Likes: 13
From: Burlington NC
With that sweet hood you will be blessed. You should knock off the big stuff at a 45 degree angle with a small file. Then use 600 grit sandpaper or grey scotch brit to make sure there isn't any high spots. Don't sand to make them gone, no high spots is what you are after. I personally think you have more of a chance of messing something up trying to put in one cam bearing when the motor is in there.
Randy
PS Don't do this again, it's not good but shouldn't give you any real trouble.
Randy
PS Don't do this again, it's not good but shouldn't give you any real trouble.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 25,889
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From: Virginia Beach
CI 3-5-6-7-8 Veteran
^ Thanks Randy... I got a small file set today at lunch. Tonight we'll just remove any hard edges from the nicks and then leave it alone. Looking at the wear pattern it looks like the cam won't touch that part of the bearing anyway.
I don't plan on doing this again... If anything the car will get a 402 or 416 or 427 short-block down the road.
Also... there's a good chance I didn't do the damage to the edge of the bearing at all and that it's been that way for 70k!
I don't plan on doing this again... If anything the car will get a 402 or 416 or 427 short-block down the road.
Also... there's a good chance I didn't do the damage to the edge of the bearing at all and that it's been that way for 70k!
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 22,025
Likes: 192
From: At the beach in little Rhody
One other way to push the lifters back up is look inside first, then use a small wood broom handle to push them up. Just make sure it is very clean. Color of the nick in the front might give a clue as to when it was done, if it looks fresh then it is recent, if it has the oil color than it was likely there since new. Only concern I would have is where did the chunk go.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 25,889
Likes: 7
From: Virginia Beach
CI 3-5-6-7-8 Veteran
One other way to push the lifters back up is look inside first, then use a small wood broom handle to push them up. Just make sure it is very clean. Color of the nick in the front might give a clue as to when it was done, if it looks fresh then it is recent, if it has the oil color than it was likely there since new. Only concern I would have is where did the chunk go.
The nick looks clean now but that's because I was rubbing and cleaning the bearing w/ my finger and got all the oil etc off.
I know I never hit or twisted the cam that hard so I'm begining to wonder if it was there from the start.
Either way... tonight I will file it, then use a very fine emory on the scratch then install the new cam and proceed. I have a towel blocking the oil pan etc... so any nick I created would not get into the pan.
The feedback Ive gotten from the major tuners is positive and I'm moving on.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 22,025
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From: At the beach in little Rhody
Unless the rods were snug, the lifters can drop some and over time will. Take a gander down the clearbore prior to putting the the cam just to be sure they haven't come down at all.