Got enough juice to fire the car with no crank pulley. Same damn issue. It's got to be internal to the motor at this point given there's no weights on the clutch and the pulley has been removed and it run without.

I'm searching here, but is there any clearance issues with an LS1 windage tray being used on an LS3 shortblock with upgraded ARP 2000 Rod bolts?

 

Man, I would think if there was a clearance issue the sound it would make you think it is going to blow at any second.

There is still a chance that the clutch pressure plate has an imbalance. Did the builder test run the engine before you got it?

 

Ok, so you still have the driveline connected? Did you do any mods i.e aluminum couplers, etc?

 

Agreed. I've heard rod bolts hitting things before and I know this isn't it, but I'm searching at this point.

No mods were done to the driveline. It stayed in the car for the motor swap. I'm starting to think that the pilot bearing probably got nicked and failed on initial start with the motor going on to the TQ Tube/input shaft, and not vice versa.

Problem I'm having right now is that I can't find anyone who's said exactly what their failed pilot bearing felt like. All the say is "vibration" but they don't say if it was RPM related, clutch in or out, ect.

 

[QUOTE=Fastbird@FastbirdPerf.com;15699380 91
I'm searching here, but is there any clearance issues with an LS1 windage tray being used on an LS3 shortblock with upgraded ARP 2000 Rod bolts?[/QUOTE]

Sean, this is not an issue, unless your engine has 4.00" stroke or greater.

 

Kind of what I figured. Thanks!

Pulling it all apart tomorrow. Figure it won't hurt anyway as with the power I hope to make an inspection of the TQ Tube Bushings would be prudent.

 

Can you post the shop that you PAYED for the install so others can save time and money??

POST #42, test run????????????, maybe if your dropping 20 or 30k on project

 

Man, I feel your pain. Like I said earlier, I has to R&R a BB Chevy engine three times. They messed up the balance TWICE!!!!!!! And it was a quality balance shop too. It was absolutely amazing.

On the third attempt, I insisted on being present for the balancing. We verified all the correct weights for the parts (pistons, rods, etc) - they all matched up nicely. Then we calculated the proper weights for the bobweights and assembled everything onto the crank. The guys at the balance shop thought I was simply busting their chops until they started spinning the crank and then WOWZA - the crank assembly was just about shaking the balance machine.

It took over 100g of material removal to get the assembly into balance! Everyone at the shop was totally amazed at how they could possibly have messed it up so badly. I suspect it was a simple math error when they were doing the bobweight calculations. Engine ran very smoothly after the third balancing........

Anyway, if you end up having to get it re-balanced, I would recommend you read up on balancing and then ask politely if you could please be there and watch the process to confirm everyone is adding the numbers properly.......

Good luck

 

Didn't get much done today, no motivation to work on it unfortunately. Finally got out there at about 6 PM and got the mid-pipes out and was working on the downpipes when it became apparent they are NOT coming off without at the very least unbolting the manifolds and dropping those. There's a single bolt on each side that's completely inaccessible. So tomorrow I'm going to hopefully get the down pipes /wastegate pipes off, and should be close to popping out the tq tube.

Frankly, after some stuff I"m seeing, I'm optimistic that the pilot bearing is mangled and the cause. Soon as I have tq tube clearance from the back of teh motor I'm bolting up the turbos/manifolds and firing it up for another look.

 

If you have the clutch pedal depressed and you're still getting vibrations, it's not the pilot bearing, since the the torque tube is not engaged.

 

If you don't find the pilot bearing messed up, you already have the clutch out, take your clutch to a shop and have them spin balance it. If that come back as balanced you know your culprit is the engine itself and you need to have it balanced.
Good luck.

 

That's the game plan. I'm hoping to have the TQ tube out tonight......gotta do some lawn work when I get home first, then I'll get to tearing things out some more.

IF it is the internal motor, I have a feeling I'm going to have a fight on my hands because I've got a lot of money in gaskets (cometics) and labor to have the motor put in and I will be seeking at the very least 50% reimbursement there because I'm having to do it all again myself anyway.

Kind of what I figured, but at the same time I've seen a lot of posts where guys are getting vibrations such as my situation and it has been the pilot bearing. Which is why I plan to run the motor without the TQ Tube attached, have the clutch balanced, reinstall, run again, and go from there.

 

Once the clutch is depressed the torque tube is not spinning on a manual car.

However on Auto transsmissions the torque tube shaft is always spinning as it's a direct lock-up.

 

This is kinda wrong logic, but I agree that it isn't the pilot bearing.

The pilot bearing IS spinning with the the clutch pedal depressed on a manual car. That is its function. When the clutch pedal is let out the clutch engages and the clutch/pressure plate/flywheel become one solid piece and the input shaft no longer spins in the pilot bearing.

Either way if it was the pilot bearing the problem would go away when you have the clutch engaged

 

Man, denied again. Got the passenger side turbo manifold dropped enough to remove the down pipe. Had to take the two rear studs out. Drivers side is a bit different, not enough room and have to take out all the studs. Well I'll be damned if the two center ARP Manifold studs didn't have the %&@*$%^# heads stripped out and I can't get anything to bite them. I about put a torch to the car tonight. I'm so upset about having to go through all this on what was supposed to be a simple turn-key fix.

I talked to TSP, said they'd cover shipping and repair if it IS internal, but it MUST come back to them. However, they don't cover peripherals or other peoples labor. If it comes down to it and it turns out that it is indeed the motor, I'm going to end up in a legal fight because I simply don't have the excess money to be spending it twice on the same job right now.

 

Thank goodness I do most of mine own work other than tunning and painting.

If it's there motor than they should be footing the bill, plain and simple. For that reason alone I would never do business with a shop that would not cover the expense of their mistakes.

Good luck and I hope you get things worked out.

 

Well, I will say that ask any shop and you'll get the "we don't cover labor, ect" as a canned answer. But this is ridiculous.

Only three things I can think of that it would be at this point is pilot bearing, clutch imbalance or misalignment, or internal imbalance.

 

RPM covers their products. If TSP was installing the motor it would be on them.

In the long run, it seems that it is best to have the negine installed by the same shop that sells it, because if something goes wrong they can't drop their mistake on you.

Reminds of me of corporate politics, everybody points the finger at the other guy.

I don't think their is any misalignment. It's either the motor or clutch. BTW, what clutch are you using ?

 

Tex OZ-700 that Steve Doten put into the car on the stock motor. Off the old, on the new, no changes, was perfectly fine before.

Got the studs out, did the two bolt trick, jamb them on each other, back them off.

As for the finger pointing thing, you're 100% right. I'll take that one step further and say that it's an integral part of our society not to see who can accomplish the most non-accountability.

I'm going to pull the other DP tonight as well as the lower clutch cover or lower bellhousing cover, whatever you call it. Tomorrow I'm hoping to remove the tunnel plate and get the TQ tube out and run it again.

 

Ok, DP's are off, lower bellhousing cover is off. Visually everything looks in the green. Nothing loose or rattling on the clutch. The ONLY thing I saw was that the spring coiling around the throwout bearing was half of half off the rubber insulator. Not sure if this is right or not. Should have no problem getting the TQ tube out of the car tomorrow night. All I have to do is free up the rear end stuff and drop the tunnel plate and then pull it.