427 Warhawk.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 8,629
Likes: 16
From: York PA
I wanted to talk you out of it in the beginning, sorry to see this truly turn into a crap sandwhich. 
Some friendly advice on the forced induction....
If you must have twin turbos I would suggest the TTIx set-up and forget about an sts deal. Better yet, save yourself some headaches and give Kenne Bell the nod.
Been there, done that with twin turbos.... to do it over again (which I am) I'm bolting on a simple blower kit.
I wish you good luck from here on out!!!
p.s.- I'm curious to know what kinda guns bring in close to six figures? Class III?
Some friendly advice on the forced induction....
If you must have twin turbos I would suggest the TTIx set-up and forget about an sts deal. Better yet, save yourself some headaches and give Kenne Bell the nod.
Been there, done that with twin turbos.... to do it over again (which I am) I'm bolting on a simple blower kit.
I wish you good luck from here on out!!!
p.s.- I'm curious to know what kinda guns bring in close to six figures? Class III?
BTW- KB sucks on the Corvette
Last edited by 4DRUSH; Jan 29, 2010 at 01:51 AM.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,788
Likes: 2
From: Tallahassee FL
When I found that crack in the head near the exhaust valve guide, I sent those pics to Billy Mitchell Jr. or World Products.
----- Original Message -----
From: Rich Z
To: Bill Mitchell jr
Cc: Chris Harwood
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 9:31 PM
Subject: Fw: Aw hell....
Billy,
Well, after that problem with the intake manifold bolt holes on those heads, do you think perhaps this latest problem is trying to tell me something about World Products? Seriously, what do you think my confidence level in your product is like at this moment?
Rich Z.
Here is his reply...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Mitchell jr" <bmjr@theengineshop.com>
To: "Rich Z" <rich@corvetteflorida.com>; "sales" <sales@latemodelengines.com>; <chris.harwood@motorsportsxtreme.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 11:25 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: Aw hell....
> Rich,
> I have to be honest with you. I am stumped. These you have obviously
> picked apart everything on the engine, no doubt but these heads came
> back for the manifold bolt hole location correction. Now I would have
> been more then happy to swap them out with a whole other set but the
> decision was made (Not by I) to correct these due to the fair amount of
> machining done to them for the Jesel rocker arms and some pocket work.
> So they came back, we dropped what we were doing and jumped on this deal
> to get you back up and going on your project at obviously no cost. After
> this was all done you went and once again picked apart the repair, took
> high resolution photos that gave you a view like it was under a
> microscope and magnified the corrected holes did not in anyway look this
> way to the human eye and was a very acceptable repair. Needless to say
> it was all posted on the forum for all of the world to see and crucify
> us. You even made sure that you forwarded me the link to see this. There
> were a few that did know what they were looking at and understand the
> whole situation and saw this for what it was and I thank them for
> jumping in.
> In reality, our entire industry that we all rely on to bring us the
> thousand of incredible products for all of our hot rods, race cars,
> boats etc. there is no such thing as a company that produces 100% of the
> products perfect 100% of the time. Parts do once in awhile get past the
> quality checks and yeah it sucks but we're not just knowingly sending
> these parts out and keeping our fingers crossed. I don't care what
> manufacturer including the god almighty precious GM have these issues
> that get out. It is truly the way that a company handles the situation
> at hand that I believe is what should be criticized if need be but this
> does not happen. You guys get on the forum and just start ripping away,
> sometimes even before you guys give the manufacturer even a chance to
> respond to or correct the problem. So let me ask you this, after you the
> fact that you already ripped into us as well as all of your buddies, and
> after the fact we dropped what we were doing and even had some guys come
> in during their Christmas vacation and and handled the situation at hand
> based on a decision that was made collectively, Why would you expect us
> to do anything, The damage you have done is un-fixable and no matter
> what I do from this point on would not mean squat to no one and wouldn't
> make you happy anyway and wouldn't be the last, the shade of aluminum
> would be wrong.
> But you know what, we are not a company that does not stand behind
> our parts. If the head is cracked which it looks like it is then we all
> missed it. Send the heads back and I will get a set of new ones done for
> you, simple as that. There is nothing else on the table here, No hidden
> catches, No conditions, No further offers just ship the heads back to
> me, I'll send you new ones. When shipping them back make sure to send
> them freight prepaid with the RMA #BMJR on the outside of the pkgs or
> the the receiving dock will refuse them.
> Bill
I am glad that I will not be advertising World Products whenever someone looks under my hood.
----- Original Message -----
From: Rich Z
To: Bill Mitchell jr
Cc: Chris Harwood
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 9:31 PM
Subject: Fw: Aw hell....
Billy,
Well, after that problem with the intake manifold bolt holes on those heads, do you think perhaps this latest problem is trying to tell me something about World Products? Seriously, what do you think my confidence level in your product is like at this moment?
Rich Z.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Mitchell jr" <bmjr@theengineshop.com>
To: "Rich Z" <rich@corvetteflorida.com>; "sales" <sales@latemodelengines.com>; <chris.harwood@motorsportsxtreme.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 11:25 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: Aw hell....
> Rich,
> I have to be honest with you. I am stumped. These you have obviously
> picked apart everything on the engine, no doubt but these heads came
> back for the manifold bolt hole location correction. Now I would have
> been more then happy to swap them out with a whole other set but the
> decision was made (Not by I) to correct these due to the fair amount of
> machining done to them for the Jesel rocker arms and some pocket work.
> So they came back, we dropped what we were doing and jumped on this deal
> to get you back up and going on your project at obviously no cost. After
> this was all done you went and once again picked apart the repair, took
> high resolution photos that gave you a view like it was under a
> microscope and magnified the corrected holes did not in anyway look this
> way to the human eye and was a very acceptable repair. Needless to say
> it was all posted on the forum for all of the world to see and crucify
> us. You even made sure that you forwarded me the link to see this. There
> were a few that did know what they were looking at and understand the
> whole situation and saw this for what it was and I thank them for
> jumping in.
> In reality, our entire industry that we all rely on to bring us the
> thousand of incredible products for all of our hot rods, race cars,
> boats etc. there is no such thing as a company that produces 100% of the
> products perfect 100% of the time. Parts do once in awhile get past the
> quality checks and yeah it sucks but we're not just knowingly sending
> these parts out and keeping our fingers crossed. I don't care what
> manufacturer including the god almighty precious GM have these issues
> that get out. It is truly the way that a company handles the situation
> at hand that I believe is what should be criticized if need be but this
> does not happen. You guys get on the forum and just start ripping away,
> sometimes even before you guys give the manufacturer even a chance to
> respond to or correct the problem. So let me ask you this, after you the
> fact that you already ripped into us as well as all of your buddies, and
> after the fact we dropped what we were doing and even had some guys come
> in during their Christmas vacation and and handled the situation at hand
> based on a decision that was made collectively, Why would you expect us
> to do anything, The damage you have done is un-fixable and no matter
> what I do from this point on would not mean squat to no one and wouldn't
> make you happy anyway and wouldn't be the last, the shade of aluminum
> would be wrong.
> But you know what, we are not a company that does not stand behind
> our parts. If the head is cracked which it looks like it is then we all
> missed it. Send the heads back and I will get a set of new ones done for
> you, simple as that. There is nothing else on the table here, No hidden
> catches, No conditions, No further offers just ship the heads back to
> me, I'll send you new ones. When shipping them back make sure to send
> them freight prepaid with the RMA #BMJR on the outside of the pkgs or
> the the receiving dock will refuse them.
> Bill
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 13,760
Likes: 75
From: Haymarket VA
You've been EXTREMELY patient with World. Much more so than I would have been. It's bad when you buy very high dollar block and heads from a manufacturer - not a reseller - and run into the problems you have at every turn. It is time to change horses and get some solid value for your considerable dollars. If World is smart they will refund all of you money quickly and put this in the past for all parties. The worst thing they can do as a business now is add insult to injury by not doing so.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,788
Likes: 2
From: Tallahassee FL
So here's the latest.......
LME can build me the new engine at a few dollars less than the Warhawk block and heads were costing. So at least there won't be more out of pocket expenses involved with the new engine.
The new block will be from RHS and the heads from Performance Induction. Pretty much everything else will remain the same as what I had in the Warhawk block and heads. Except we decided to go to 10:1 compression instead of 9.5:1, thinking it may give somewhat better low end power that way. It will also give more overall power naturally aspirated that the turbos can amplify when they kick in when the revs build up enough.
The new engine will take 4 to 5 weeks to build. So with shipping and then putting everything together in the car, I'm guessing we are talking about mid to end of March before I have my car back on the road. Not exactly what I had in mind when I first dropped my car off at Chris's shop, but I'm sure you've read the saga that has taken place since then....
LME can build me the new engine at a few dollars less than the Warhawk block and heads were costing. So at least there won't be more out of pocket expenses involved with the new engine.
The new block will be from RHS and the heads from Performance Induction. Pretty much everything else will remain the same as what I had in the Warhawk block and heads. Except we decided to go to 10:1 compression instead of 9.5:1, thinking it may give somewhat better low end power that way. It will also give more overall power naturally aspirated that the turbos can amplify when they kick in when the revs build up enough.
The new engine will take 4 to 5 weeks to build. So with shipping and then putting everything together in the car, I'm guessing we are talking about mid to end of March before I have my car back on the road.
Not exactly what I had in mind when I first dropped my car off at Chris's shop, but I'm sure you've read the saga that has taken place since then....
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,788
Likes: 2
From: Tallahassee FL
What this means is that LME is willing to take that Warhawk engine back and build me a new one based on a RHS block. What they decide to do with that engine is their business and will no longer concern me. I've just washed my hands of World Products completely.
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,734
Likes: 232
From: Youngstown Ohio
Thumbs up to LME
Darion
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Tech Contributor
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 10,924
Likes: 78
From: Forney Texas
I have seen the RHS block and had a chance to inspect it. It is a beautiful piece of work.
This might just end up going from a nightmare to a love story.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,788
Likes: 2
From: Tallahassee FL
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 28,753
Likes: 9
From: San Jose/Bear Valley CA
CA Events Coordinator
Sorry to hear you are going through all these problems. years ago I was one of the first guys to go the FI route with the procharger blowers. Bought the kit from Procharger and installed it myself with help from some local CF brothers. The kit was garbage... spent 6 months trying to get a solid fix so I wouldnt waste more money. I wont get into all the stuff I did/rebuilt but.. it took years to mod the car and sort out all the BS that went with it. Delays at shops were par for the course I learned. Looking back I was happy to get what I wanted but I sure had to wait a long time. My car has been gone through a third time now. With all the new mods I started all over with almost a brand new 1999 Corvette. Now it stays here everyday, gets washed and waxed and driven whenever I want.
Hopefully when your newest round of mods is completed you will be happy with them.
Hopefully when your newest round of mods is completed you will be happy with them.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,788
Likes: 2
From: Tallahassee FL
Sorry, nothing much to say quite yet. The Warhawk *stuff* has been sent back to LME, I assume, and Bryan is building me a new engine based on the RHS block and Performance Induction heads. He stated 4 to 5 weeks to complete the build at that time. So right now I'm just in a holding pattern awaiting word when the new engine has been shipped to XtremeMotorsports.
Quite honestly, after all this, I can't look at the word "Warhawk" without feeling a bit queasy in my stomach.....
Quite honestly, after all this, I can't look at the word "Warhawk" without feeling a bit queasy in my stomach.....
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,734
Likes: 232
From: Youngstown Ohio
Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,572
Likes: 9
From: Jackson Tn
St. Jude Donor '06-'07-'08-'09
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,788
Likes: 2
From: Tallahassee FL
Yeah, probably so.... Man, I HATE to think of all the time I put into taking video of the Warhack engine...... But on the bright side it sure will free up a lot of disk space when I delete all that useless video now...
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,734
Likes: 232
From: Youngstown Ohio
Nice to see you still have a sense of humor, Good for you!
Take it easy,
Darion
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 18,048
Likes: 53
From: long Island NY
I'm amazed its like Warhawk feels their the victim here and all the negative comments makes them feel like a punching bag, well as a buisness owner you are. When I'm bricking a home,or installing a concrete driveway and my customer isn't happy about something it must be immediately handled at any cost.Soon as they realized their was a mistake and you were uncomfortable with re-taping or milling they should immediately built you a new pair,then instead of being a punching bag,they would be heroes. What do you think this whole thing cost them,their taking back the heads,everyone thinks they handled it poor, I can't imagine LME rushing to use them anytime soon or any other builders following this thread. Good luck.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,788
Likes: 2
From: Tallahassee FL
I'm amazed its like Warhawk feels their the victim here and all the negative comments makes them feel like a punching bag, well as a buisness owner you are. When I'm bricking a home,or installing a concrete driveway and my customer isn't happy about something it must be immediately handled at any cost.Soon as they realized their was a mistake and you were uncomfortable with re-taping or milling they should immediately built you a new pair,then instead of being a punching bag,they would be heroes. What do you think this whole thing cost them,their taking back the heads,everyone thinks they handled it poor, I can't imagine LME rushing to use them anytime soon or any other builders following this thread. Good luck.
My opinion is that World Products handled this affair extremely poorly, from a customer standpoint. I personally would not give them my business, nor recommend them to another.
LME, on the other hand, simply and immediately stepped up to the plate and offered to make this right for me when it became obvious that the engine was a "no-go" for me. They could have very easily have just said "tough luck, Chuck", and be done with it. Which, quite honestly, I thought they would do and I would just be screwed over royally. It REALLY wasn't their fault at all, and although I wouldn't have liked it one bit, I really couldn't have argued effectively against that rationale.
Quite frankly, if I ever find myself in the market for another engine, LME would be at the top of my list to go to. As long as they don't recommend using World Products in any part of that engine, of course....
So I'm just waiting for the new engine to get done. To say that this is being an exercise in patience is an EXTREME understatement. I guess I must just be getting older and mellower, as in my younger days the wife would be cleaning off the mess from the ceiling after the top of my head exploded...
