Cam? Eh
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Jul 2021
Posts: 37
Likes: 2
From: nevada
Cam? Eh
I have a fairly stock c5 with no mufflers and some other exhaust stuff done, and a cold air intake. I am considering a 228r cam. My questions are... 1. How much will this affect reliability, I am currently at 30k miles will I still make it past 100k with the cam....2. What lsa? I was thinking 110 or 112 I want it to sound rowdy.....3. What other mods need to be done to increase reliability? I'm not too concerned about hp.
Last edited by C5vette4lifee; Jul 18, 2021 at 02:19 AM.
Running Guns & Moonshine
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 12,643
Likes: 7,291
From: CT
She'll live forever.
Sounding rowdy vs BEING rowdy ... I'd go for actual power. E.g. I'd go for more duration before a lower lsa. Or both, lol.
While you're in there?
Upgraded timing chain. Not just LS2.
Your oil pump and water pump ought to be fine at just 30k, but now is the time if you think a high pressure (not high volume) pump could be good.
New front main seal.
Aftermarket hub balancer (since you're in there and asking about 100k life, this is a must)
And depending on your funds, you can do this at the same time or later but new springs for sure and I'd recommend replacing the trunions with Straub or Che bushing kit (not Comp).
Sounding rowdy vs BEING rowdy ... I'd go for actual power. E.g. I'd go for more duration before a lower lsa. Or both, lol.
While you're in there?
Upgraded timing chain. Not just LS2.
Your oil pump and water pump ought to be fine at just 30k, but now is the time if you think a high pressure (not high volume) pump could be good.
New front main seal.
Aftermarket hub balancer (since you're in there and asking about 100k life, this is a must)
And depending on your funds, you can do this at the same time or later but new springs for sure and I'd recommend replacing the trunions with Straub or Che bushing kit (not Comp).
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 200
Likes: 76
I have a fairly stock c5 with no mufflers and some other exhaust stuff done, and a cold air intake. I am considering a 228r cam. My questions are... 1. How much will this affect reliability, I am currently at 30k miles will I still make it past 100k with the cam....2. What lsa? I was thinking 110 or 112 I want it to sound rowdy.....3. What other mods need to be done to increase reliability? I'm not too concerned about hp.
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 12,864
Likes: 4,667
Do NOT get a higher pressure oil pump, PERIOD. The stock LS motors have plenty of pressure. There's too much oil going through the LS motors as it is. All a high pressure pump does is push more oil through the stock bearing clearances, and waste horsepower. If you go with an aftermarket oil pump, go with a Melling Hi Volume, NOT Hi pressure!! A high volume, stock pressure pump won't pump any more oil through the motor than a stock pump, if bearing clearances are the same for each. What a Hi Volume pump will do is recover oil pressure quicker should high g-forces cause it to cavitate, and it will also maintain stock pressure even as bearing clearances increase as the miles pile up. What the Hi Volume pump won't do is pump your pan dry, with stock bearing clearances. I've run a Melling Hi Volume pump for over 15 years, and never pumped my pan dry, including one standing start to 160+mph run. Hope this helps.....
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 1,392
Likes: 303
In the autocross / road racing forum you'll find the opposite advice about oil pumps. At high RPM you pull oil from the pan faster, but it still takes just as much time for oil to return to the pan after doing its job in the bearings and up in the heads. And with high cornering forces, you increase the risk of the pickup running dry because the oil in the pan sloshes to the sides. LS3 and LS7 are much more prone to that problem[1] but the LS1/6 are not immune. I went with a high pressure pump.
[1] https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...the-track.html
[1] https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...the-track.html
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 1,392
Likes: 303
Rowdy sound comes from two things: overlap and tuning. I had a 232/234 @ 112 cam, which had 9 degrees of overlap. The 228/228 @ 110 would have 8 degrees of overlap. The idle was rough enough that you could tell there was a cam in it, but there are tons of videos online of cams with less overlap and much more chop/lope. My car also surges in first gear under 1500 RPM, though I did hear from one guy who said his car didn't surge with the same cam, so tuning is probably a factor there too.
I felt like the driveability issues were a fair price to pay for the extra power, but if you don't, then you want less overlap. 228/228 @ 112 has 4 degrees of overlap, so driveability should be pretty good. You can make it idle as rough as you want by lowering the idle RPM or by playing around with the tables that adjust spark timing to maintain idle RPM.
I have a hunch that you could make the stock cam lope and chop if you wanted it to, but I'll admit that I haven't tried.
I felt like the driveability issues were a fair price to pay for the extra power, but if you don't, then you want less overlap. 228/228 @ 112 has 4 degrees of overlap, so driveability should be pretty good. You can make it idle as rough as you want by lowering the idle RPM or by playing around with the tables that adjust spark timing to maintain idle RPM.
I have a hunch that you could make the stock cam lope and chop if you wanted it to, but I'll admit that I haven't tried.
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 12,864
Likes: 4,667
In the autocross / road racing forum you'll find the opposite advice about oil pumps. At high RPM you pull oil from the pan faster, but it still takes just as much time for oil to return to the pan after doing its job in the bearings and up in the heads. And with high cornering forces, you increase the risk of the pickup running dry because the oil in the pan sloshes to the sides. LS3 and LS7 are much more prone to that problem[1] but the LS1/6 are not immune. I went with a high pressure pump.
[1] https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...the-track.html
[1] https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...the-track.html
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Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Jul 2021
Posts: 37
Likes: 2
From: nevada
I respect your opinion but I'm not the only one to install a aftermarket cam for the sound.. there's literally a cam called chop monster which states in the description that it was designed for the sound. I actually am considering that cam too but it's bigger than the 228r so I don't know.
.
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,030
Likes: 1,156
From: Oregon
St. Jude Donor '14-'15-'16-'17-'18-'19-'20-'21-'22-'23
I respect your opinion but I'm not the only one to install a aftermarket cam for the sound.. there's literally a cam called chop monster which states in the description that it was designed for the sound. I actually am considering that cam too but it's bigger than the 228r so I don't know.
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Jul 2021
Posts: 37
Likes: 2
From: nevada
.
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,030
Likes: 1,156
From: Oregon
St. Jude Donor '14-'15-'16-'17-'18-'19-'20-'21-'22-'23
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Jul 2021
Posts: 37
Likes: 2
From: nevada
She'll live forever.
Sounding rowdy vs BEING rowdy ... I'd go for actual power. E.g. I'd go for more duration before a lower lsa. Or both, lol.
While you're in there?
Upgraded timing chain. Not just LS2.
Your oil pump and water pump ought to be fine at just 30k, but now is the time if you think a high pressure (not high volume) pump could be good.
New front main seal.
Aftermarket hub balancer (since you're in there and asking about 100k life, this is a must)
And depending on your funds, you can do this at the same time or later but new springs for sure and I'd recommend replacing the trunions with Straub or Che bushing kit (not Comp).
Sounding rowdy vs BEING rowdy ... I'd go for actual power. E.g. I'd go for more duration before a lower lsa. Or both, lol.
While you're in there?
Upgraded timing chain. Not just LS2.
Your oil pump and water pump ought to be fine at just 30k, but now is the time if you think a high pressure (not high volume) pump could be good.
New front main seal.
Aftermarket hub balancer (since you're in there and asking about 100k life, this is a must)
And depending on your funds, you can do this at the same time or later but new springs for sure and I'd recommend replacing the trunions with Straub or Che bushing kit (not Comp).
Running Guns & Moonshine
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 12,643
Likes: 7,291
From: CT
Never heard of it. But cams, despite being quite complex in design, are rather simple for the layman at our end to understand. X duration and LSA = Y power band. That power band is only then further advanced or retarded by displacement unless you add positive manifold pressure.
I did just look it up.... 108 LSA? I mean, by all means go ahead, but its not for me - and I have ran some pretty radical cams in the past. Lope for lope's sake does not appeal. That's like stance on rice burners to me. If the car is a dedicated track car or Saturday night only, ok sure. If you're using it for anything else at all - I'd not go for it. But it's a style choice.
I did just look it up.... 108 LSA? I mean, by all means go ahead, but its not for me - and I have ran some pretty radical cams in the past. Lope for lope's sake does not appeal. That's like stance on rice burners to me. If the car is a dedicated track car or Saturday night only, ok sure. If you're using it for anything else at all - I'd not go for it. But it's a style choice.
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Last edited by grinder11; Jul 19, 2021 at 09:01 AM.
Race Director
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You are absolutely correct about the big, lopey idle not meaning much. I've personally seen stock C5 Z06's just wipe out nasty sounding cars at the strip, most of which were running the original SBC. Couldn't even hear the Z06, only the 'nasty sounding Chevelle, 'Cuda, etc.!!
Running Guns & Moonshine
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 12,643
Likes: 7,291
From: CT
But how are the ecu's being scanned? Are they actually checking what settings are IN the tunes, or are they just running a checksum to verify file name, date, and size... All of which can be artificially altered?
.
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,030
Likes: 1,156
From: Oregon
St. Jude Donor '14-'15-'16-'17-'18-'19-'20-'21-'22-'23
I know they are worried I talked to A&A the other day
.
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,030
Likes: 1,156
From: Oregon
St. Jude Donor '14-'15-'16-'17-'18-'19-'20-'21-'22-'23
They must have developed a program that compares the stock tune to your tune
Pro
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 621
Likes: 596
From: Ohio
The 228r will give you the best all around performance, wont loose reliability/drivability but its a vast improvement over stock. You can run a dumpster fire or even a BFD and get that chop but it will drive like ****. The 228r is more of a burbble.
What year is your car?
What year is your car?