well... out of 7 billion people in this world.. one doesnt belive the numbers.... i think we should pay as much attention to him that we do to the rest of the 6,999,999,999 people out there.

He's just out of date and his only claim to fame is "foeny dyno numbers" but he gives no real reason why a 346 ls6 headed Ls1 cant make 470rwhp

 

Brent, Joe, Billy and Mark,

You do not have to prove anything to me. Your cars run great. :cheers: I know Paul feels the same way. I really hope Paul helps you put this to bed Wed and we can stop this nonsense!

Brent, tell Julio when he puts your motor together, add the forged pistons so you can shoot the juice and run with Mike and I!

For all of you doubters, you have to see the cars of the four guys I addressed this too run. They are awesome! People outside of the Northeast do not know what they are missing! When the Cartek and Vette Doctor guys get together at the track the fans are never disappointed. We have a great healthy competition going and the two shops really have a blast competing. The thing I really like is that all four of their heads and cam 10 sec cars are M6's!! That is impressive! Cartek has nothing to prove to me. :chevy

PS. Julio, make sure you make Paul buy you the biggest steak on the menu!! :lol:


[Modified by boweryboy, 3:17 PM 9/21/2003]

 

Can we get a Campro of Brent's cam, and flowsheets on his heads? As long as its down and all.... :)

Anyhow, I suspect it will be an interesting fall...

 

 

werd :D

 

There is more power out there. I am sure that the Texas/NewJersey connection will prove that.

I don't doubt for a minute that the numbers from the reputable shops are accurate.

What I don't understand is how someone like goosman can be so out of touch. Was he in a time warp while the LSx engine was being pumped up?

A simple world challenge engine has 540 flywheel hp. These heads now flow well over 300cfm, and if he is such a guru, he should be able to caculate how much hp is available with these engines.

The new Daytona Prototype engine which is a DE STROKED version at 335cubic inch engine (3.5" strok by the rules) was dynoed on an engine dyno at 515 flywheel hp. that would be 438rwhp and that would =1.53hp/cu in using stock size valves and only 10.5:1 compression per the rules. Based upon these figures, he and his enginebuilder pals should not attempt to build one of these because if they can only get 1.3hp/cu in they will only get 435 flywheel hp and be 80hp down from a winning engine.

Maybe it is just that the tuners he is associated with just can't make that hp, so they try to downplay those who do and claim that they all drill holes in their dynos. :lolg:

I see from Goosman's web site that he is selling parts now. Soon he will take back his words.

Oh well.

LG

 

:withstupid: The friendly competition between Cartek and the Vette Drs has helped us ALL go faster. Once this issue is put to bed, we all can continue reaping the benefits :cheers: Maybe the individual who started this thread should come up Wednesday and learn something about LS series engines :lol:

 

With all the talk about these cartek cars not being stock bottom end, I wonder if Redgar's Vette Drs car is really a cam only car. It seems strange that his "cam only car" runs better than the Vette Drs heads and cam packages.

 

There may be shops out there pumping up figures on the dyno. In every line of business you have honest buisinessmen and dishonest ones. Buyer beware. There are tuners putting their necks out and putting their money where the tire meets the strip. The folks at Cartek obviously work hard and play just as hard. Their cars run strong. And so do MTI's and LG's cars. These folks have put a lot of work into tuning and making the LS1&LS6 engines run their best. Lets not lump all the tuners into the bad bin bucket just because there are a few bad apples out there. If Cartek, MTI or LGMotorsports was pumping up dyno figures...we'd see it in the time slips and customer complaints/posts on the forum. I honestly think the majority of the supporting tuners, that support our hobby, are honest businessmen and deseve respect. Most of the posts on here where folks were dissappointed in their numbers...their tuners probably were as well. And often times the tuners put in extra efforts to satisfy the customers. Just my 0.02 cents from personal experience with shops over the years.

 

Come clean Edgar are you willing to take a lie detector test :lol: ?

 

My thing has always been run what you brung, so I don’t care if someone tells me his stock C-5 runs 11’s because he can drive or his 100 shot sparayed car picks up 20 more mph in the traps because is a tricked out set up, when he is really shooting 250 hp.
I’ll call it like I see it, and this is my opinion, so flame suit on.
Congrats to those”4” for running those numbers , those are fast cars regardless of the set up.
It seems you guys are very concerned in showing/proving they are NA stock cubes.
Here is my take.
Cartek has done a bunch of those head and Cam cars with the Package “X”, and only those 4 run the high tens and the crazy 127 traps. The rest I’ve seen trap 118 mph. In my opinion 7-9 mph in the traps CAN’T be all driver, again my opinion.
Also those cars even make your own strokers look bad. The 415 Auto you got traps 127 on motor.
Yea, is Auto and all, but it has 59 more cubes…
Now, why would I spend $$ building a stroker set up, or blower set up if I can run 10s at 127 with a little head and cam package as you call it.
There is no free lunch in this business, and mph is HP.
You Guys are getting 470s rwhp out of a little head and cam 346, that is 1.36 rwhp/Cid.
For Comparison lets look at a C5R 427 built by Kateck, in a recent Vette Mag. Article
It dynoed 539 rwhp with C5R heads at 12.5:1 Cr, sheet metal intake (so the LS6 intake being a restriction for the big cubes motor does not apply here) , and solid cam. This is a 50 K motor, yet it makes only 1.26 rwhp/cid.
If it where built using the 1.36 as seen above you would get 580 rwhp . So your 346’s are more volumetric efficient and produce more hp/cid with LS6 heads/Intake and Hydraulic cams than a Solid cam 12.5:1 CR
Headed 427…
To me it does not add up, but this is my opinion, no matter what those 4 are running the numbers regardless of their set up, so kudos to them!

 

Let me get this straight... the Katech 427 w/ C5R heads and a solid roller cam only made 539 rwhp??? Cartek has made 530 rwhp with a 427 w/ LS6 heads and a hydr. roller cam. lol, so that is meaningless. Just because Katech makes a slow 427, doesn't mean our cars aren't 346ci. Honestly, ask any tuner here, that setup should be near 600rwhp. MTI, ARE, Vette Docs, etc, are all making 500+rwhp with their hdyr. roller/LS6 heads stroker motors. Only 30 more rwhp from C5R heads and a solid roller?!?!? I'd be pissed if I paid $50k for that! That's for sure. Maybe people should start giving the tuners making slow cars a hard time, instead of constantly bashing the ones actually giving their customers tons of power for the money.

Also, remember, the power:cid ratio will change as the cubes go up. The LS6 intake is not efficiant enough to give the strokers the power levels they should be making. The new intakes like FAST is making will hopefully change that.

Not every customer that buys a Cartek X package is a hardcore drag racer. You've got maybe 4 or 5 of us that are, and we run the number. Two others I know of are running 11.0. Remember, to run 10s you'll need ET Streets, a cage, 4.10 gears, and a willingness to beat the crap out of your car. Not everybody is willing to do that. As for X package cars running slower times, I see Z06s run 13s every Corvette Challenge, does that mean the Z06 is slow?

 

I don't know what other cartek X package cars you are talking about that trap 118mph but if you look in the sig of 9D9LS1 you will see he ran 2001 ZO6 Cartek Stage 2X, with stock gears 11.37@ 123.05 w/ 1.78 60'
New best 11.04 @ 126.00 w/ 3.90 gears and a 1.57 60'! (444 RWHP 417 RWFT) (Cartek Clutch) So 123 with the stock gears sounds right also his package was not installed by cartek it was just tuned by them...118mph is probably with someone that can't drive or maybe a really hot day or both. Wednesday night this issue will be put to rest about if we have a stock bottom end or not. Im putting my money on us having a stock bottom end
:D So when the verdict is in and we do have a stock bottom end what is everyone going to say. Im sure some people out there who didnt get their moneys worth from someone elses heads and cam package will find some other false accusation to bitch about. Oh and what 415 with an auto that traps 127mph are you referring to?

 

You have to keep in mind that there is more to building an engine than just getting dyno queen numbers. Engines are built for certain applications. Road racing and drag racing setups are very different and after a point the HP and TQ can go against you. This is especially true depending on the tires, suspension, and track/street you are on. :smash:

:cheers:


[Modified by bgood, 12:54 PM 9/22/2003]

 

blah blah blah Cartek is slow. :jester

 

WOOOOOOOHHHH GO LOU! :party: Show that guy whos boss...
BTW: DO you have any info on some of your h/c or stroker packages... i prob wont be buying anything till i get my next vette, but i am just curious

 

LG, have you made any cages lately :reddevil


[Modified by Badred C5, 4:25 PM 9/22/2003]

 

OMG, dont speak to me about that with my grandpa set-up. :lol: at least i never had any problems with reliability :lol:

 

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: i just spit all over my screen!!!! :rofl:

 

major spray, i'll be happy with just a #7 plain with only cheese from wendy's OK :cheers: