I don't know who the hell told you that, but that is untrue. I drove 2800 miles round trip from Connecticut to Florida for that race!!! I never put anything besides 93 octane in my car for the entire trip. I ran 11.1 at 125 that day on 93 octane at 11.1 compression. :mad I drive this car everyday to work the same way I race it. Don't talk about stuff you know nothing about. :troll

 

This is a great thread...very educational. One thing is for sure, luv 'em or hate 'em, the Cartek boys are showing it both on the dyno AND on the track. If I hadn't gone turbo, Cartek would have definitely gotten the nod. Hell, if I ever decide to go stroker on this puppy , it'll probably be a Cartek stroker.

 

Dyno jets measure the angular acceleration of a drum of known inertia. This means they are checking how fast the energy of the drum is increasing vs time. This is called POWER not Tq.

Torque is a STATIC FORCE. When you can apply and keep torque up on a moving or rotating abject we are talking POWER plain and simple. Torque by itself does nothing. I can have 500 foot pounds at 5000 rpm or 500 foot pounds at 10,000 rpm. One is double the power and can use twice the same gear at the same wheel speed and will now have twice the acceleration and torque at the wheels even though engine torque did not change at all but horsepower sure did! Double the power equals double the acceleration rate with appropriate gearing.

Torque cannot accelerate anything in the absense of time. Throw in the time element (rpm) and now again you have power which can be used to calculate almost everything. Know one cares about Tq or RPM by them selves but together they tell us how fast the car can be since accelerating or pushing wind at speed is a work over time equation again which is a power equation.

Anyone that thinks Tq accelerates the car doesn't know too much about racing or engines. That's just an old ignorant buzz phrase. Tell me how fast a car that weighs 3500 pounds and has 500 foot pounds of Tq can accelerate down the quarter mile. that's just as bad as saying you can calculate how fast a car is or accelerates from just RPM. Show me the non-existant Moroso torque/speed or rpm/speed calculator because I CAN show you the famous and fairly accurate Moroso power/speed calculator. :rolleyes:

 

We dyno on both the Dynojet and the Superflow dynos. The Superflow is 120 miles from our shop, which makes it difficult to schedule.

We did back to back dyno testing on our 2003 LS1 Coupe bone stock with load and in "DynoJet mode" as they call it without load. There was not even .1 RWHP variance between pulls. So much for the load dyno.

When dyno testing FI cars, the load will help spool up turbos sooner due to the extra EGT, but makes little difference on a belt driven Supercharger.

I actually prefer the Superflow dyno since it has better software options compared with the Dynojet.

As others have pointed out, the real benefit of dyno testing is the ability to compare one mod to another as you did for many years Ron. In fact, I think that all of the comparitive dyno testing you did was Dynojet at the time, and you had the same contempt for the Mustang dyno Breathless used back then.

For those that do not remember Ron from Pro Auto Tech, he helped pioneer many of the mods used today by many tuners.

Welcome back to the forum! Just hope you didn't see your shadow.

:)

Jim Hall


[Modified by Jim Hall, 9:21 PM 9/18/2003]

 

Also anyone in their right minds that thinks an engine dyno is any more accurate or repeatable than a dynojet 248C hasn't been around both much! I have and am right now. The repeatability of the Dynojet is extremely impressive. You can lie or fudge damn near everything on the engine dyno whereas almost every correction is built into the Dynojet although some of the old ones do let you enter vapor pressure yourself and cheat a little. I can change a 500 hp engine up and down 50 hp with ease on our Superflow 901 and 99 percent of the people on this board would never be able to tell either. Most guys use a STD correction on the engine dyno and an SAE one that is more conservative on the Dynojet so it appears you lose more power to the wheels than you really do.

 

Wow I think we lost grasp of my point! You see a big dyno number posted,
you look at the guys mods in his signature, Oh I got to have that cam or that cylinder head from whoever the big number guy purchased from! My
point is that "Big Numbers sell parts" Numbers can be manipulated. I have
made a thousand runs on a dynojet My biggest concern was test the same
oil temp engine temp tire pressure ect. What I do not like is that a simple change in gear ratio or even tire pressure changes the numbers on a Dynojet
Many speak of formula's " there are formula's in engine building"that do not
add up to the power numbers floating around also.


[Modified by Gooseman, 2:37 PM 9/20/2003]

 

I know what you mean....putting 4.10s in my car hurt the rear wheel number. I probably would have been close to 490 if I left the 4.10s in

 

I give a lot of credit to Cartek and the drivers of their cars. I have always had my doubts on whether or not the bottom ends were truly stock or not and I have expressed in the past. I really don't care they perform great no matter what they are. The fact that you Guy's feel like you are being attacked make you look like liars and cheats. Relax enjoy the racing and competition it is a fun sport. My take on the original post is much different then the position most are taken. The fact that there are many variables that effect the typical dyno equipment used by most tuners. Yes their may be game playing but that can be done with any piece of equipment the fact is we have resource's that can be used for tuning and before and after snapshots to gage the performance of their new mods. Dyno numbers don't win races. I should Know My old set up made 580 to the ground yet only ran 12.0's due to belt issue's. I won't tell you the current Dyno number's I will let my track times tell it all once we get the tranny issues worked out. This post should have been more of a eye opener then bashing grounds. I happen to think the only way true Dyno number can be obtained is on a stand in a controlled environment. This is just my opinion of course.


[Modified by Major Spray, 6:35 PM 9/19/2003]

 

Major Spray, thanks for the props, but maybe I'm misunderstanding your post. Are you saying that our customers with the Stage 2-X don't have a stock cubes, pistons, crank rods, block, etc.? The reason they get defensive is that they have been accused of 1) using nitrous 2) It's not a stock bottom end, stroker and such 3) The compression is 12+/1 and can only run on race gas 4) The cam is real big 5) The car is very light. All BS and they know it, so when they hear these things they speak out. The other scenario would be that these accusations are posted and they said nothing. What would that say if no one responded?


Julio

 

There's enough videos floating around on here with the Cartek cars running insane numbers. If they do it how they say they do...believe them. Don't you think if a customer went to them expecting what they promise and ended up having to drop a few more grand for a forged bottom or gas to get those results we would have heard about it by now? I know if a tuner advertised a certain level of performance with a set recipe of parts and it ended up having alot of "extra" ingredients a customer would blow the whistle. :yesnod:

 

well being at the track with my close to stock Z06 with just a vararam, prt's and et streets, and running low 12's and then watching a cartek x package Z06 rip high 10's in the same weather, on the same night, on the same tires etc. Well that just says a whole hell of alot about the car. I know that if I do choose to heavily modify my car cartek will get the nod when the time comes, but I promised myself when I bought the vette I'm gonna leave this car stock. and I'm really trying..but those numbers really say alot, especially when you see them in the flesh.

 

Julio

This battle is constantly in the spotlight. I don’t recall seeing anything about Cartek in the original post. I wouldn’t have taken offence to it but if necessary, a simple response of who cares what you think. I purchased a heads and cam package and hear are my track numbers. End of response if it is so important to you to prove your case run the number at the track and rip it down right there at the track for everyone to see. That would shut everyone up. Yes I know the guy’s have said put up 5k and they will do it. Personally I don’t think it would ever happen. I know it isn’t worth my money. This is my opinion.
:cheers:


[Modified by Major Spray, 7:46 AM 9/20/2003]

 

I saw the Cam 2 truck follow you back from FL disguised as a milk truck :lol:

 

Especially if they had to pay for the parts
:D

 

Just wondering, If you have a motor putting out 350 hp at the crank and you take 15% for drivetrain loss you get 297.5 at the whels. This would be 52.5 hp lost for accessories, tranny, rear gears etc. If you have a motor making 450 hp at the crank wouldnt it still take the same 52.5 hp to run the accessories and other things that contribute to loss at the wheels thus making the percentage lost lower as you gain hp at the crank?If a car has 460 hp at the wheels it doesnt seem like it should mean his drivetrain loss jumps 30 hp no matter how stiff your valve springs are. Wouldnt the loss be the same from crank to wheels regardless of how strong a motor was sitting in it?

 

Anybody know the equation for computing hp based on a cars weight, quarter mile et, and trap speed? That should make it fairly accurate what some of these cars have for hp.

 

:lol: :lol: :lol: I knew it was too obvious to have Tek Warrior driving it. :D

 

Mr. Mongoose,

Your interpretation of the dyno numbers might just explain why some of your own Mongoose packages made little or no impact beyond deflating wallets.

 

Brent is coming in for some updates on his Stage 2-X, he has one of the first ones. You are more than welcome to come down and inspect what ever you like since the heads are coming off.

 

I beleive there is no denying Carteks awsome Dyno #s, not to mention there constant ability to back them up at the track! :yesnod: :cheers:

I have recently experienced a situation were I was unable to duplicate my Dyno #s from my last tune, on the dyno I usually go to. I retuned, and Downgraded my #s to the ones in my sig now. It makes a bit more sence that these are the right #s, since with an easy launch and light shifting, I only went 129 MPH.

I do believe that some tuners DO inflate there #s to sell parts or just get more business, since most people love big #s.

I've seen the Cartek boys talk about not only driving to the track, but using thier cars as daily drivers. That is very cool! :cool:

The one thing that gets me once in a while is that for many of us who choose not to avidly pursue drag racing, like myself, this forum gives little attention to the many other aspects and qualities the corvette offers... Canyon running, Roadracing and an occasional Highway blast... :smash: :smash:

Respectfuly
JB