Originally Posted by Monts

Shopdog,

Although I am an ardent fan of the keyless entry system, and would not want to go back, your post does bring up the disadvantages and shortcomings of the new system.

So far, personally, I've only experienced the benefits, freedom and ease-of-use. To me it is worth the additional cost. If the unit malfunctions, hopefully it is a warranty issue.

If history is any guide, (think mechanical adding machines versus electronic calculators) prices and reliability of these electronic systems typically go down, have less weight than use fewer resources than their mechanical counterparts, while reliability goes up.

While your post was persuasive, my vote still is with the new system.

Originally Posted by TrackNoob

I respect your view, and have a lot of the same inclinations, however, I'll just say two things, and then leave it alone:

* Slidehammer
* Keybumping


I like my new security system.

Originally Posted by shopdog

You are a strange dude. Smoke signals don't work at night, when it is raining, beyond line of sight, in places lacking firewood, etc. They're a very slow and insecure way to pass information. Even in the 3rd century AD, people were desperately searching for faster, more reliable, and more secure forms of communications. The Romans came up with the idea of heliograph relay tower networks, and postal roads, with the messages encrypted with ciphers. Until the 19th century, that was the best technology available for passing messages over great distances. The Navy and Air Force still use a variation of the heliograph when EMCON security is paramount or for reliable functioning when battle damage puts other methods out of commission. They also still make use of couriers when security is paramount. They are time proven robust methods that aren't vulnerable to phone taps, hackers, or radio interception.

Consider other mature technologies like the lever, the inclined plane, the wheel. We still use these very mature and basic technolgies. We drive cars with wheels rather than driving hovercraft for the very good reason that hovercraft have severe disadvantages when going up a hill or turning a corner (nice over water, though, but another mature technology called a boat can also address that niche). When we want to cut something, we make use of the inclined plane (knife blade, axe blade, saw blade, etc) rather than some internet enabled gizmo, because to do otherwise would be ludicrous. We still use pry bars, hammers, etc in forms little changed from the Roman era. Why? Because they're mature technologies that work very well. You could throw all sorts of radio frequency computerized gadgets at the problem of driving or extracting a nail, but it would be ludicrous.

Same with keys and locks. The basic technology was fully developed by the 14th century, and has changed hardly at all since then because it works better than anything else. Simple, robust, reliable, convenient, and inexpensive. That's a virtually unbeatable combination of attributes.

Originally Posted by shopdog

You'd have a point if you were talking about purely electronic data systems. But opening a car door latch or cranking an engine are inherently mechanical processes that require gross mechanical actions. Adding a layer of electronic complication on top of the mechanics doesn't increase reliability. Consider if you added electronics on top of a mechanical adding machine, in other words, the mechanics are still there, but now have to be interfaced to electromechanical actuators. Would you really consider that more reliable?

Originally Posted by shopdog

You'd have a point if you were talking about purely electronic data systems. But opening a car door latch or cranking an engine are inherently mechanical processes that require gross mechanical actions. Adding a layer of electronic complication on top of the mechanics doesn't increase reliability. Consider if you added electronics on top of a mechanical adding machine, in other words, the mechanics are still there, but now have to be interfaced to electromechanical actuators. Would you really consider that more reliable?

Originally Posted by SASprof

shopdog, i, too, respect your posts, on this and other threads, including your logic, facts, and clarity. you are certainly correct in the above. electric windows would be another example of a layer of electronics on top of an inherently mechanical process. they add weight, expense, and complexity. they certainly don't add reliability. but, like keyless entry, they add convenience. at the cost of reliability. that's a tradeoff i am willing to accept. others expressed the same idea with expressions like "great as long as it works". in fact, i view the entire vette this way. when i traded my S2000 for a vette, i traded away honda reliability for greater power, thrill, comfort, aesthetics, and overall ownership experience. consumer reports rates the vette poor on reliability, but tops on ownership experience. reliability is a good thing, but it's not the only thing, or, above a minimum threshold, even the most important thing. other things trump it.

Originally Posted by shopdog

I don't disagree with the idea that convenience is important. As I said in my first post, I like power windows and power seats (though frankly both are frills I could easily do without if their failure could disable the car). The latter is my complaint about the keyless ignition system. It is vital to the car. If it fails all you have is an expensive piece of lawn art. I can still drive the car if a window sticks or the seat won't slide.

Seven of my eight cars and trucks use keys. All of those keys are on one ring, along with my house key and work key, and that ring is smaller than the fob. So one car has more than doubled the bulk in my pocket of things I carry. Ok, I don't have to fish it out of the pocket when I drive the Corvette, but I have to fish around it every time I open the front door of my house, open the door at work, or drive any of my other vehicles. It is a nuisance. I shudder to think how unwieldy it would be if all my vehicles required a fob. I'd have to get one of those chain thingies for my belt, with a whole string of fobs hanging off of it like the catch of the day. No thanks.

Now, OTOH, if there were such a thing as a universal fob that I could program for all the locks I have to deal with in my life, I might be a little more keen on the idea that convenience overrides reliability and security. But that's not here yet, and retrofitting it to my older vehicles (and buildings) wouldn't be easy or cheap even if it were to become available.

Originally Posted by gota07

There's less chance of that happening in the '07s. The '07s have a slight delay that requires the bottom of the switch to be held down about a second before it the shutdown sequence begins.

Originally Posted by Dave Tracy

I like it. I find it very convenient.

Originally Posted by Big_Geek

The keyless doors also makes the vette lighter, and much harder to steal without a flatbed.