Because I know what it takes to make power and go fast, that's why.

Motörhead thank you for the dyno graph but I await real world chassis numbers.

 

Arround 22k for that engine. You can buy a 2005 C6 or C5Z06 for that money.

 

Or you can build a rock solid built for boost engine and slap a A&A Ysi kit on it and make over 1000whp...

 

Maybe because every village needs an idiot?


This has got to be one of the dumbest things you've ever posted. If you want to know what power level an engine produces, you take it to a dyno cell, put it on the engine dyno and control the environment and minimize the variables. You get consistent repeatable honest results. You should know that if you know as much as you say you do. Any results you might get from some local shop's chassis dyno are so full of variables you would get a hundred different numbers on a hundred different runs on a hundred different cars with a hundred different tuners.

If Edelbrock advertises the crate motor/supercharger combo at 720/695 you can count on it. 720 is what they put into the motor and can safely offer a 2 year unlimited mileage warranty. This is not sold as an all out max power build. Was never intended to be. It is a crate motor set up to deliver a healthy horsepower number, reliability and longevity.

What's the big mystery you expect to solve on a chassis dyno?

 

Without spending a half hour on a reply my point is very simple. It's ALOT of money for meager power and who cares about controlled environment manufacturer engine dyno results?? I sure as hell don't, I want real world wheel HP numbers as do most others!

Yeah, I'm the village idiot... The one that actually likes his money to go as far as it should and who actually likes to go fast.

 

Wow, this thread sure took a different direction.....

Get back on topic. (please)

 

First, I think MH47 was equating your pessimism to the village idiot, not your thriftiness. I don't know why you felt the need to jump in this thread to badmouth the Edlebrock in the first place....unless you just can't help yourself.

The fact is that there is always someone faster smarter, ect.... so 60 ft times and 1/4 mile timeslips are all relative for a street driven car. Obviously the more power one has, the more weak links in the drivetrain will reveal themselves...so no matter what you do/pay for a system, no one ever really counts the additional cost of what it costs to LIVE and stay alive at 700, 800 1000 hp while blazing down the dragstrip on every other weekend.

No, Edlebrock is not going to best many of the centri systems for power level/value, but Edlebrock offers peace of mind with available warrantees and a completely reliable, engineered system all in one box at a reasonable price point. You don't need custom tuning (other than what comes with the kit) and can have a stock appearing PD, supercharged engine in about a weekend's worth of time. BTW, IMHO, Centri's always look like an add-on to me, no matter what brand.

The crate motor is just another step forward for the E Force, enabling anyone to have over 700hp by just dropping in an engine. I don't see me buying one but it seems to be a universal kit so the applications are endless.

 

Totally Now lets get back on subject

 

Earlier in this thread someone quoted the price of the Edelbrock/416 supercharged crate engine as being $22k. That number was a bit misleading. Edelbrock sells this crate engine in 3 different combinations depending upon the level "completeness" you need.




The # 46750 hardware photo is below and as you can see, comes with a ton of hardware that most would not need/require unless you were building a kit car from scratch or doing an LS conversion. It includes a preprogrammed ECU, wiring harness, throttle body, coil packs, o2 sensors, electronic throttle pedal, etc. This setup is designed for a kit car or an LS conversion, not for an engine swap in an LS based car. It sells for $20,900 at Summit



The # 46740 is the next level and comes with ALL the front accessories to include, alternator, power steering pump, brackets, etc. You wouldn't need most of the accessories if swapping this engine into an LS based car. It sells for $19,600 at Summit



The kit most would be interested in for an engine swap is the # 46730. It includes the 416 engine crate engine, the supercharger and all the necessary additional supercharger related hardware. This would be the kit you'd buy if swapping into an LS based car. It sells for $17,900 at Summit




So the number is really $17,900, not $22k. A guy can pick up the phone today and have it shipped from Summit or wherever on Monday...assuming it is "In stock" at your favored parts house.






P.S. This is not a Corvette focused kit.

 

That's for a complete kit with all accessories and electronics. For 18K you can get the crate engine and install your accessories.

For comparison a new LS7 is around 14K, and a new LS9 is about 21K.

 

breecher,
Just curious, how much power have you made as an engine builder and how fast have you been in a racing event in your lifetime?

 

History has shown he'll talk a big game on the keyboard but always seems to come up short in the verification/validation department.

 

thanks for the clarification, a lot of money for me anyway.

BTW, this tread is about Eforce with bolts on and cam, and we ended talking about create engines.

 

The reality is that the Eforce engine kit is not really a bad deal. Considering a LS9 from GM is over 20k and you still need hundreds if not thousands to complete it. For instance just buying the LS9 engine, you will still need the front drive kit, intercooler pump, hoses, intercooler, and if you are installing this into a kit car a complete harness and PCM. It can be made to work with the existing controllers in your car, its been done. Plus I can tell you that the E Force offers better drivability than the alternative same type of blowers because it has long runners. But having them also means that the power levels may not be as high as the Maggies or the Whipples with their open plenums.

Case in point my personal TVS2300 on top of a forged 9:1 LS7 with all the best parts money can buy has some tuning issues which won't be resolved by tuning. The air distribution in the blower sucks when its over driven by 120% coupled with a cam with a over 12 degs of overlap. Don't get me wrong it plain rips, making 650 ft lbs at 3000 RPM, it may not make the peak high numbers as I could have with perhaps a YSI Vortec or twin turbos, as I wasn't looking for that. But it makes just shy of 730 on a cool day which isn't bad either and its fun to drive. On average its over 700, at that level I am happy I'm not out to break any records. For those of you that know me, you know I have the capability of making much more power should I want to. For those guys that feels about the same as I this E Force crate engine isn't a bad way to go.

I forgot to mention, recently I had to dyno test a LPE car with a LS3 and the E Force. It make 595 to the wheels through the stock exhaust! Had this car had a good set of headers and an aftermarket CAT back, it could have easily made 600+. The mods included their GT9 camshaft and their ported heads.

 

Yes.

This is just a example of what the E-Force can do with a cam on the LS3.

 

I had walked away from this thread simply to avoid the uglyness but I guess I'm being asked back!

I am not a engine builder by profession but to answer your question well over 1000hp is the answer. I personally do not drag race much so I won't even bother discussing time slips as that is not my wheel house. I like fast street cars and road course racing. Auto performance and racing is simply a huge hobby of mine and i do all of my own work.

Between myself and my friends we have ran countless forced induction/engine combinations off the ls engine platform. Pd blowers, centri's, and turbo's. I just have a axe to grind with pd blowers and I have been quiet regarding it for quite some time. If you look back at my posts in this thread there has been no direct bashing of the setup, I simply want to see real world power numbers. Even at the 17k price that twin screw fanboy posted up this is no deal. You can build a faster more powerful setup for less, quite a bit less. But it doesn't have a warranty!!! Oh no! Simply put I will do anything I can to push people away from pd blowers if the word fast is in their vocabulary, the other options on the market are so much better.

Motorhead and i do have a history of bickering, this is nothing new. He loves to post up manufacturer dyno results like they are gospel and nothing irritates me more. He loves this heat pumps and I hate them. I like to go fast and he well... You get my point.

I'm going to walk away from this again at this point and let it get back on topic. Motorhead if you would like to continue the senseless bickering with me, you know how to use the private message button.

Sorry for letting my personal agenda derail this guys.

 

Hmm having a PD blower myself and having installed and tuned countless centri units as well. I wonder why the big 3 haven't used a centri style in a production vehicle. They have however used PD blowers and countless turbochargers in production cars. PDs have their place as well, call them heat pumps as you well but I have seen plenty of PD blowers going plenty fast in the drag racing applications as well as some fast centri units. They all work and it all depends on what style you want, its almost as personal as exhaust notes. For me I like the idea of being able to change a belt on the side of the road if I need to. Not saying you can't with a centri unit, but I would put a 100 bux on it that I would be back driving down the highway long before a centri guy can replace his belt. Plus I like the instant torque, no I don't race my car or track it but its terribly fun to drive and it puts a smile on my face, and that's all that matters.

 

For those people that want the true dirt about about pd blowers in corvettes go start a thread about it in the c5 forced induction section. There more then a few people that hang out there with 1000+ HP cars that at one point had twin screw blowers and got rid of them due to lack of performance. The c5 guys have had years more experience with this stuff. And as for a comment regarding "verification and validation" goes, if you do a search you will find a thread on a c5z my buddy and I put together that we played the twin screw game with for years and ultimately swapped that piece of crap out for a A&A Ysi setup and the car has flawlessly made over 900rwhp since out of the same 364ci engine that couldn't make 700 with the screws on its best coldest day! If that alone doesn't prove my point I'm not sure what does.

 

Actually that is the one and only example you seem to bring to the table over and over and over again. I can't count the number of times you've brought up that story. Basically you played guinea big with some extinct now off the market inferior supercharger POS design that your friend and you made a poor choice with on an old C5 and lost. It has nothing to do with this thread. Heck, was it even your car? Get over it!

 

I bring it up time and time again because it is relevant to the thread. And as I mentioned there are SEVERAL pd to centri or turbo converts over there and it's for a very good reason. And to my knowledge, base kit to base kit, no pd system makes more power then the centri setups available from a&a or ecs.

I really don't even know why you argue this anymore. Basic out of the box centri kits make more power, go faster, and cost less. I fully understand the love for the tq curve with the pd blower, it's a lot of fun to drive, no arguments there. But stoplight to stoplight or down the 1320 the centri or turbo will still be faster. I mean there are guys on standard 6 rib centri setups in the 9's, when was the last time you saw a e force or Maggie powered stock bottom end c6 go 9's??

To me it's all about performance. Diesel like torque is a hell of a lot of fun, but it doesn't make the car fast.

You and I simply have different opinions on what is fast and what is "good". Honestly you and I should just "ignore" eAchother.