I noticed that GM, in engineering/building the COPO 2012 Camaros for strickly drag racing only, used the Whipple "heat pump"(2.9 & 4L) blower. I guess they didn't want any of their 69 customers to win any races after forking over a ton of money for their COPO Camaros.

Do you know why they didn't go with a centri, if it's so much better?

 

Proven reliability would be my guess or emissions legality possibly, they are great for a factory application, no arguments there. The big whipples are good contenders, hell of a lot better then the 2300 units. I dislike the pd blowers but the new big whipples are nice units.

Other reasons the manufacturers probably don't use centri units is the need for a large intercooler. The pd blower requires just a little heat exchanger but the trade off for that is higher iats, centri units run just a few degrees over ambient. Pd blowers on the other hand run atleast 30 degrees over ambient on a good day from my experience, that alone is going to lead to pulling boatloads of timing on a warm day. There is a reason the mustang guys love to ditch the factory blowers for either centri/ turbo or BIG PD units and they have way less space constraint then a vette.

 

And what if someone was dumb enough not to want 900 hp? What if someone wanted a very reliable 6 to 700 rwhp? What if they wanted more hp than stock at any rpm? OEM quiet and reliable. Naaaaa. Who the hell would want something like that? Umm....ME...and apparently GM and apparently Ford...and maybe Dodge....Mercedes. Whole bunch of damn stupid people and jillion dollar corportations around here with no brains. They need to do more reading here to get what they really need

 

Emissions???? Reliability????? The COPO Camaros don't have a VIN, only a serial number. They cannot be licensed for the street. They are for RACING only. They don't have a 5 year 100,000 mile warranty. They are for RACING only.

Want another stab in the dark as to why GM went with the Whipple instead of a centri? Could it be because the Whipple twin screw delivers more horsepower across the entire RPM range and an almost flat torque curve vs a centri.

Yes, for production applications, on cars that have VIN's and can be titled and driven on the street, GM went with the Eaton 2300 design rotors with a 5 year/ 100,000 mile warranty, not a centri. Must be pretty reliable units and meet all emissions requirments for GM to put that crappy "heat pump" on the $125,000 ZR1, the $75,000 Camaro ZL1 and the $70,000 CTS-V.

 

Ever look at a tune file from a zr1 or log iats in one? Or a ctsv? I have and we happen to own a V. Look into that then revisit this. They run pretty warm and are very quick to pull timing.

The "they must be good because the manufacturers use them" argument is getting old. If they wanted sheer power and reliability they would make them turbocharged. But that is not cost effective. At production level a top mount blower is most certainly the cheapest option and has the most factory look. They were not picked because they are the best power adder option for a oe application, that would go to a twin turbo setup but it's not cost effective by any means. They do what they do because it works and it's reliable for that application

 

And that's a bad thing? If you can make the power you're after and "it works and it's reliable for that application".....

 

If your happy with it, that is ultimately what is important. But considering this thread was opened asking for real world e force results, why is everyone insistent on arguing with me instead of posting up there personal dyno charts and time slips?? That's what confuses me. Give the guy what he wants, there must be loads of real world, non manufacturer data generated from e force powered c6s to put up this much of a argument. So I'll shut the hell up and you guys give him what he is looking for.

 

I'm making 619 rwhp with an eforce with a stock cam on an LS2. I've only managed an 11.2 at the track but I am still sorting out some shift issues and was hitting the rev limiter on 2 shifts. Also running stock converter.
I've only done about 10 runs with the car and really built it for fun on the streets, but the potential is there to be pretty quick


Posted that up before which is real world data. For a daily driver that has gone 10000 miles so far without ever being down for a day, or even visiting a garage, I think thats pretty decent.
If I do like some of the guys who run the best times, I am sure I can get there too. These things include the following... none of which make sense for a daily driver, but obviously will help a track junkie run well.

Remove seats
Skinny tires up front.
Calculate to the ounce the amount of gas in the tank.
Add a cam
Add a torque converter ( which then leads to a 5k tranny)

After doing that, all I have to do is travel to a well prepped (fast) track, and make about 200 runs to learn my car. Then if its still running (which it probably wont be) I can probably brag that I ran mid 10's or something in that area.

This is all great for someone that wants to do that, but for a fun, reliable street car that drives like stock when you dont get into it, and never breaks, there is nothing wrong with a PD blower.

To each there own. I think the key is to decide what you want from the car before you do the mods. It is no secret that you cant, at the same time, be the fastest AND the most reliable.

 

Okay, then how a LS3 with 580 horsepower at the rear wheels with a E-Force and has a 3 year warranty.

http://lingenfelter.com/engine-packa...ce-tvs2300-sup

Or 660 horsepower at the rear wheels with a GM supercharger(Eaton 2300).

http://lingenfelter.com/engine-packa...ce-tvs2300-sup

 

That is data from a shop, not a specific car or a personal experience.

 

Oh and just a heads up since apparently it was missed above, the e force and the tvs 2300 are pretty much the same blower, just different runners really, both use the 2300 rotor group. As does the blower on the 2013 cobra. The real maggie is more efficient than the e force though due to its lower manifold design. E force had to smush things to get it under the stock hood.

 

Dude, really.........that is a ridiculous statement right there ...

"Shops" (which are a group of people with "personal experiences") who often post their Dyno runs and even YouTubes to prove their claims. They usually only stay in business, long term if they produce what they claim.

BTW, You claimed your reason to post was because of the OP's original question for E Force info. You chimed in and basically pissed on any discussion of the E Force and proceeded to bloviate for the centri and how you're horsepower-making prowess should be enough proof for the OP to not walk, but run away from PD installations. After all, max HP and bench racing bragging rights are what are most important.....reliability, drivability, clean, compact installation, and great torque response all at a reasonable price are for the rest of us losers.

BTW 2, Where are your dyno charts and satisfied testimonials of others that have been fortunate enough to have you build those eye-popping HP engines? hmmmm?

 

The white C6 in that video was in my shop earlier this year. LPE had referred him to me because there was a oil consumption issue that they were concerned about. LPE had their customer come to my shop to have me check the car out. It was nothing serious and I took care of the issues. They also had me dyno the car on my chassis dyno, which the car came in at 595 to the wheels which was within 5hp of what the LPE dyno sheet had reported to the customer. So we can say that even though these numbers were from a shop, it was independently verified by another shop.


How about this one. One of my personal customers. E force on a 2010 A6 C6 coupe, bone stock bottom end, NO HEADERS, STOCK CAT back exhaust and just the plain E Force canned tune to maintain Edelbrocks engine warranty. Customer reports to me consistent 11.50 time slips all day long with a A6 equipped 2010 C6. Not to shabby considering it drives like stock, fuel economy was unchanged and he has the Edelbrock warranty to cover engine mishaps should there be one.

 

BTW 2, Where are your dyno charts and satisfied testimonials of others that have been fortunate enough to have you build those eye-popping HP engines? hmmmm?[/QUOTE]

I was actually pretty clear that I am not a engine builder by profession, it's simply a big hobby of mine. But if your simply looking for customer or owner testimonials and dyno sheets or even time slips To back up the centrifugal blower claims it takes no more than scanning the c5/c6 forced induction forums on a daily basis or doing a search for ECS or A&A, you will find tons of threads and results with very happy customers from stock bolt on cars to full engine builds.

 

Trying to get us back on topic and show yet another example of "Power levels with E Force"

I had forgotten about this guy over on the Camaro5 forum with a built LS3 and EForce...732/738

 

Ok, let's get this straight...you question the honesty and veracity of a company that makes HP claims, but we are to accept your word without any legitimate proof at all.....because you do it as a hobby.....hmmm.....

Again, the OP called for info on the E-Force. I don't believe he asked why the E force sucks as compared to a centri by a guy who has zero provable credentials.

I've never met MH47, but the guy too is a hobbyist that has proven his metal to this forum, making reliable, verifiable power with an E-Force and his hands-on knowledge in doing so. I'm just sayin'

 

You have posted this before. I believe I said the same thing I'm going to say here again.

That's a CAMARO, they are not plagued with the same space constrictions and heat issues the corvettes have been. There is more room to breathe, it doesn't require cramming 50lbs of **** in a 10lb bag. We got a pd blower to make over 800whp on a ls variant, it can be done. But it was not practical nor reliable. Iats were through the roof, it would break belts, it snapped the power steering bracket clean off due to stress on the accessories from insane belt tension and even with the pulleys being laser aligned it would jump ribs on certain pulleys from time to time.

I guess my final note on this topic or Atleast this thread is this:

If you love diesel like torque and want a quick reliable car these systems are for you, without a doubt. But I'd racing is important to you or if you have the want for serious expand ability take a closer look at centrifugal superchargers and turbo kits.

Till the next time....

 

It is estimated that the little 5.3L LS3 in the COPO Camaro puts out around 1150 HP with it's Whipple PD. A shake down run with a two speed powerglide did 9.69 at 140 MPH.

 

 

This is my daily driver if it helps.







The interior is pretty nice too.