Torque Management System - C6
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 26,714
Likes: 344
From: Houston, TX
Originally Posted by Ranger
I really don't like the idea of a design feature that takes away ten percent or so of my horsepower/torque when I want it the most, and does so, not for safety sake, but to avoid making the drive train robust enough to deal with the car's advertised power.
Chevy is trying to reduce warranty claims via graudated detuning (TM) rather than hardening parts. I understand their financial motive. But it's an "on the cheap" approach for a marquis car.
Ranger
Chevy is trying to reduce warranty claims via graudated detuning (TM) rather than hardening parts. I understand their financial motive. But it's an "on the cheap" approach for a marquis car.
Ranger
Racer
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 328
Likes: 2
From: springtown tx
Originally Posted by jschindler
I don't disagree with your statement, but I have to make a point. The Corvette would be a 12 flat car if it had 50 more horsepower as well. My point being that it is what it is. GM designed the car the way they did. TM is no different than any other part of the cars tuning.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 7,695
Likes: 51
From: Imperial Beach CA
Originally Posted by Ranger
I really don't like the idea of a design feature that takes away ten percent or so of my horsepower/torque when I want it the most, and does so, not for safety sake, but to avoid making the drive train robust enough to deal with the car's advertised power.
Chevy is trying to reduce warranty claims via graudated detuning (TM) rather than hardening parts. I understand their financial motive. But it's an "on the cheap" approach for a marquis car.
Ranger
Chevy is trying to reduce warranty claims via graudated detuning (TM) rather than hardening parts. I understand their financial motive. But it's an "on the cheap" approach for a marquis car.
Ranger
Racer
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 328
Likes: 2
From: springtown tx
Originally Posted by Ranger
I really don't like the idea of a design feature that takes away ten percent or so of my horsepower/torque when I want it the most, and does so, not for safety sake, but to avoid making the drive train robust enough to deal with the car's advertised power.
Chevy is trying to reduce warranty claims via graudated detuning (TM) rather than hardening parts. I understand their financial motive. But it's an "on the cheap" approach for a marquis car.
Ranger
Chevy is trying to reduce warranty claims via graudated detuning (TM) rather than hardening parts. I understand their financial motive. But it's an "on the cheap" approach for a marquis car.
Ranger
I have been on that band wagon for 11 months or so. There is no other reason for TM other than a bandaid for a drive train that is not up to the task. One of the reasons I bought my Corvette was the 10 bolt rear diffential in my 2002 Z28 worried me and I did not want to spend the 2500-3000 to up grade it. I had no idea that GM had gone backwards in design from the C5 and it would be even more fragile than my Z28. Which by the way never broke after 200+ passes on the stock gsa's.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 7,695
Likes: 51
From: Imperial Beach CA
Originally Posted by zippin zee
I have been on that band wagon for 11 months or so. There is no other reason for TM other than a bandaid for a drive train that is not up to the task. One of the reasons I bought my Corvette was the 10 bolt rear diffential in my 2002 Z28 worried me and I did not want to spend the 2500-3000 to up grade it. I had no idea that GM had gone backwards in design from the C5 and it would be even more fragile than my Z28. Which by the way never broke after 200+ passes on the stock gsa's.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,271
Likes: 182
From: Manassas VA
Originally Posted by Ranger
I really don't like the idea of a design feature that takes away ten percent or so of my horsepower/torque when I want it the most, and does so, not for safety sake, but to avoid making the drive train robust enough to deal with the car's advertised power.
Chevy is trying to reduce warranty claims via graudated detuning (TM) rather than hardening parts. I understand their financial motive. But it's an "on the cheap" approach for a marquis car.
Ranger
Chevy is trying to reduce warranty claims via graudated detuning (TM) rather than hardening parts. I understand their financial motive. But it's an "on the cheap" approach for a marquis car.
Ranger
What is actually going on from my experience is the TM is active when the engine/drivetrain controls sense a bad mismatch between the flywheel speed divided by the current gear selection and the transmission output shaft. Rather than TM the function should be named impulse management. I essence what is being done is limiting the shock loads to the drivetrain caused by the above. The two places where this happens is trying to accelerate from a standing start and during a red line up shift.
Face it folks this car wasn't designed to be a drag car. If you don't like the TM beef up the driveline and turn it off or just turn it off and be prepared to replace broken parts every now and then.
If I was the chief engineer at Corvette I would have done the same thing to protect the company from the many wanna be racer types who will abuse the drivetrain no matter what.
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 10,649
Likes: 31
From: Central Florida
Originally Posted by ronsc1985
...If I was the chief engineer at Corvette I would have done the same thing to protect the company from the many wanna be racer types who will abuse the drivetrain no matter what.
I've drag raced my three most recent Z06s. So I guess I'm not a wanna be. And with zero breakage in 533 passes, I guess I'm not an abuser either. But neither are the vast majority of racer I know.
One guy's spirited driving is "gross abuse" to owners whose pride is focused on the lost art of proper polishing.
Ranger
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Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 26,714
Likes: 344
From: Houston, TX
Originally Posted by zippin zee
Everyone has their feelings and opinions on this and if you are happy with what you have and the job that GM has done, I am happy for you. But to me it would be like telling my kids b's are ok when I know a's are possible with a little effert.
Second, using your logic, it's no different than anything else I wish they had done different with the car. I wish it had Bluetooth, I wish the stereo was better, I wish it had a nicer interior, I wish the DRLs weren't set up the way they are..... I could go on, but hopefully you see my point.
My C5's ran about 13.0 bone stock, and the C6s about 12.5 bone stock (both with me driving). So, from my standpoint, they gave it 50 more horsepower, and in my opinion, it runs like is has 50 more hp. The trap speed difference also supports this logic.
Racer
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 328
Likes: 2
From: springtown tx
Originally Posted by jschindler
First of all, you have to remember that I am one of the ones who has not felt any obvious effects of TM.
Second, using your logic, it's no different than anything else I wish they had done different with the car. I wish it had Bluetooth, I wish the stereo was better, I wish it had a nicer interior, I wish the DRLs weren't set up the way they are..... I could go on, but hopefully you see my point.
My C5's ran about 13.0 bone stock, and the C6s about 12.5 bone stock (both with me driving). So, from my standpoint, they gave it 50 more horsepower, and in my opinion, it runs like is has 50 more hp. The trap speed difference also supports this logic.
Second, using your logic, it's no different than anything else I wish they had done different with the car. I wish it had Bluetooth, I wish the stereo was better, I wish it had a nicer interior, I wish the DRLs weren't set up the way they are..... I could go on, but hopefully you see my point.
My C5's ran about 13.0 bone stock, and the C6s about 12.5 bone stock (both with me driving). So, from my standpoint, they gave it 50 more horsepower, and in my opinion, it runs like is has 50 more hp. The trap speed difference also supports this logic.
That was your experience and this is mine. So do you see how I might be a little disapointed?
And actually it would be like them installing your bluetooth standard, but not letting you activate it because it might cause problems with your radio or computer.
Last edited by zippin zee; Jul 30, 2006 at 06:46 PM.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,796
Likes: 1
From: Annandale VA
I've been reading all these threads with a mixture of interest and amusement. My take is that if you don't believe in TM, then what difference does it make whether it exists, or how it works or doesn't work? If you do believe in it, the only question is what to do about it? Ranger just wants to understand it enough to be able to drive around it. With my C5, I just went to my local tuner and had him take care of it. There was no mystery, he showed me the tables he was changing, and then we could both see the difference on the dyno. What surprised me was that it took care of that mysterious TQ flat spot right around 3800 RPMs.
With my C6, I am going to buy my own copy of HP Tuners, and learn how to do my own tuning. I can get rid of most of the TM right off the bat, then when the tranny 'puter gets hacked, I MAY tweak it some more. I very seldom race, just want the car to be all that it can be.
With my C6, I am going to buy my own copy of HP Tuners, and learn how to do my own tuning. I can get rid of most of the TM right off the bat, then when the tranny 'puter gets hacked, I MAY tweak it some more. I very seldom race, just want the car to be all that it can be.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 5,259
Likes: 16
From: Monroe Township New Jersey
St. Jude Donor '05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16
St. Jude donor in memory of jpee '14
No matter how you cut it TM exists as a band aid to keep the Corvette drive train in one piece. Look at the brighter side! the poor Mustang guys lost their independent suspension on the new Mustang Cobra because Ford did not want to spend the extra dollars to do it right. 
If we consider all the enhancements that the Corvette team put into the C6, I would think that we are well ahead of the game. Unfortunately, TM exists and if we want more performance then we have to tune some of it out.
If we consider all the enhancements that the Corvette team put into the C6, I would think that we are well ahead of the game. Unfortunately, TM exists and if we want more performance then we have to tune some of it out.
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 26,714
Likes: 344
From: Houston, TX
Originally Posted by zippin zee
And my point is my 325 hp Z28 ran 12.89's bone stock. My Corvette has gone 12.65 at 400 hp. And to add insult to injury the Corvette is couple hundred pounds lighter.
That was your experience and this is mine. So do you see how I might be a little disapointed?
And actually it would be like them installing your bluetooth standard, but not letting you activate it because it might cause problems with your radio or computer.
That was your experience and this is mine. So do you see how I might be a little disapointed?
And actually it would be like them installing your bluetooth standard, but not letting you activate it because it might cause problems with your radio or computer.
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 26,714
Likes: 344
From: Houston, TX
Originally Posted by HITMAN99
I've been reading all these threads with a mixture of interest and amusement. My take is that if you don't believe in TM, then what difference does it make whether it exists, or how it works or doesn't work? If you do believe in it, the only question is what to do about it? Ranger just wants to understand it enough to be able to drive around it. With my C5, I just went to my local tuner and had him take care of it. There was no mystery, he showed me the tables he was changing, and then we could both see the difference on the dyno. What surprised me was that it took care of that mysterious TQ flat spot right around 3800 RPMs.
With my C6, I am going to buy my own copy of HP Tuners, and learn how to do my own tuning. I can get rid of most of the TM right off the bat, then when the tranny 'puter gets hacked, I MAY tweak it some more. I very seldom race, just want the car to be all that it can be.
With my C6, I am going to buy my own copy of HP Tuners, and learn how to do my own tuning. I can get rid of most of the TM right off the bat, then when the tranny 'puter gets hacked, I MAY tweak it some more. I very seldom race, just want the car to be all that it can be.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,027
Likes: 6
From: Shiloh Ohio
My tuner thought he tuned out the majority of TM. Although my mph and ET were much quicker my 60 foot was virtually the same. I think it will be a while before the A6 can have TM tuned out.
