SR0707

I just tried to send you a PM or E-mail, and you don't have them turned on. So I guess I'll have to make this a public statement.

This has been one wierd night on the forum. I want to say that this is all in good fun, and good debate. I will not deny that I learn a lot, and am not always right. I hope we can have a good "relationship" on the forum and you will take my posts knowing that its done with a smile on my face and that I think many of you would be good fun to have lunch with.

Please accept this as an apology as well if I say anything that offends you

We now return to our regulary scheduled programming!

 

Mine does the same on cold tires & cold pavement (and I have the 17 second time slip to prove it) But seriously, even though our cars feel like they are on steroids (when it is cold) we have no idea what "TM" is doing Someone needs to run it with a tech II attached to see what is happening with timing, throttle & fuel.

I have not actually tried to run mine after heating the rear tires. Most if not all of the A4/A6s running faster than me launched after heating their rear tires. I'll see this fall.

My observation of TM or lack thereof:

I think there is a very fine line between just about spinning the tires and spinning the tires. If you launch with the tires just about to spin I think that you have no wheelhop & no "TM"....... good 60 ft time

If you really spin them then you get "TM" ......... bad 60 ft time.
If you get too good a bite and get axle hop you should also get "TM" (but then we would not have so many members with broken driveline parts) this should not happen with "TM" but it does.

Then again with the six speeds driving ability dictates "TM". Darren & Jim have run very fast times without "TM" doing its thing. Could it be the same with the autos ????? I haven't a clue

PS: I need to add Ranger as he has been driving around, "TM" for quite some time now. Maybe we could all learn how to launch our Corvettes from Ranger

 

TM should not be the the only function considered for it is controlled by reducing timing.
Traction control is controlled by reducing timing and taking control of drive by wire and
wheelhop is controlled by reducing timing and fuel flow.

All of these are easy to spot when using a OBD-II scanner and looking for when torque suddenly shows negative values, TPS shows sudden close of throttle and injector flow command has been reduced.

 

I think the TM killed my car. I put a Procharger in an 06 A6. Out out 527 RWHP and 484 tq. Has a mail order tune fro Ed Wright. Ran like $hit. 87degrees and humid the best I ran was 12.40's with a 2.0 60'. I am hoping an HP tune in 3 weeks helps speed this thing up. The funny thing is on the street when the tires can spin a little this feels like a beast. Hopefully the HP tune will remove most if not all of the TM. Also I continue to throw codes P0203 and P0204. Check engine light will flash when that happens. I shut down and restart and it goes away except for the smell of raw fuel.

Any I deas why?

 

Yes, thiscould be the problem LOL.

I'd get a real dyno tune with the car actually ON the dyno and see if that helps.

 

Yes, I have a feeling that Darren, either knowingly or not, was exercising in his LS2 some of what Ranger has learned to do/utilized in his Z06 as far as working with and around TM.

 

Thanks for the information. I realize that you typed a quick answer.
So ......... The computer detects excessive torque and reduces the timing & fuel flow to slow the car. I imagine that tuners have logged this data and realize what tables need to be modified so that they can selectively reduce the "GM abuse mode" without doing away with it all together or disabling the ABS.

I would imagine that removing the "GM abuse mode" without making the necessary steps to strengthen the drive train could be expensive in broken parts.

So I guess our choices would be
1.) remove it all together & pay
2.) learn to drive around it (launch techinque)
3.) slightly modify it and the cars drive train
4.) live with it

I am open to suggestions & comments as I would like my car to perform better but do not want driveline parts all over the track.

 

YUP, we need those launch secrets & then we just play around with it with the autos and we will be as fast or at least really close (yea, I know in my dreams ok next time out I'm using a ringer )

 

The problem is HP has not put out the software yet and is supposed to in a week or so. I have a tune scheduled on the 24th of July. HP will only have the tune available for the engine not the transmission. THey have not cracked the codes yet. Hopefully that will help. Is it possible for this to cause me to run 1 sec slower than it should? It should be in the mid 11's with that kind of power.

 

Yes it's possible, combine the tune being out of whack along with this heat/humidity and it will definitely cost you some precious ET.

 

I don't want to mis-state any information here, but I think that the main issue Ranger has with "TM" is when he runs drag radials and it hooks too well.

I have launched my cars with tremendous amounts of wheel spin, I've had it go sideways on my when I hit second gear (at the track!) and I've launched where I thought the amount of wheels spin was about perfect.

At no time have I felt the car take anything away from me. I think we have to remember that on a launch, horsepower is not the key factor to 60' times anyway (on street tires). If I can make the tires spin, then more horsepower to the ground is only going to make them spin more. So how is TM going to hurt? I do understand that TM could and should come into play if I get axle hop. But for whatever reasons, I almost never get axle hop. One day - showing off for some friends in a parking lot (Yeah, I'm still a little juvenile), I "burned" the back tires for at least 100 ft with no axle hop.

All good debate here

 

Jim I was just razzing you.Thats how the TM works.when you spin you over come the torque sensing. when tires are set to right air pressure, and heated buy spinning, or the road surface is hot, or heat is in tire from driving. that's when TM will activate. if you stay under the torque settings it will not activate. traction at 400 hundred ft lbs of torque for any reason will activate TM and probably lower. don't know the settings. but believe me even when you spin when it stops or when you shift it comes on for may be a millisecond not noticeable, but enough to stop momentum and slow you run. if i floor off start i dont spin 60 fts 1.9s 2.0s but when i take off easy still dont spin but 1.7s 60 fts so if no TM my 60fts should be faster flooring

 

Oh boy ! Free rides ................

 

I posted links earlier in the thread demonstrating that the ECM cuts power of the engine under regimes called (by GM) TM. So the issue isn't whether it exists, because it does.

The issue is whether some owners care and other owners don't.

If I weren't drag racing my car, I wouldn't be concerned about how TM works. Rather I'd be delighted for a feature intended to add longevity and reliability to my drive train.

But Because I race, I've become acutely aware of what the motor and rear wheels are doing at any moment in a pass. And it only took three passes in the car to figure out that power is pulled on the launch and the 1-2, 2-3 shifts. That happens on drag radials and on the stock tires.

So, TM is a fact. But not everyone can sense it. However, almost all racers who make a fair number of passes in a C6 and have done so in C5s too, can tell the difference. And that difference is TM.

A well driven stock C6-Z51 will not launch as hard as a well driven stock C5Z. And the C6-Z51 is slower to the 330' and 660'. Why do you suppose that is. Now why should a C6Z be no faster to the 330' than a C5Z with 90 less rwhp? TM on the C6Z.

Ranger

 

jschindler: We all make mistakes...It's cool.
We now know you are pink.

Beautiful beach day, will follow this later.

 

Thanks for the replies (Several between this and my last). This is without a doubt the best "TM" thread yet. My hat is off to ya'll.

BTW, I just got back from a quick run in my car. With AH & TC completely off, I still say mine shows zero effects of TM on shifts. I banged second and third real hard a couple of times, and nothing is being held back. I even worked on my shifting now that someone might take me up on my offer........man, the pressure is really on now Ahh yes, we create our own hell, don't we?

Anyone here know how to replace a pump seal on a pool pump? Getting ready to go out back and tackle that. Wish me luck. I think my pool pump has TM. I'm gonna deactivate it and make those water falls REALLY pump some water

 

No problems Dennis. You're a great contributor to the forum

 

 

First ride is free, each additional ride is a quarter. Come on down - I need a witness

 

Seems we have had this debate. Try putting the crow on the grill with some bbq sauce.