Thanks for the info.

 

TM is defintely there & can easily be edited out (defeated) by any knowledgable tuner. I watched Jeremy Formato canel mine during a tuning/dyno session.

 

Auto or manual?

 

I have a manual.

 

#1. fact:

Cartek Performance Engineering says, "This unit is designed to help prevent the ECU from reducing timing and throttle angle (torque management) under hard driving conditions and fast shifts. Torque management doesn't allow the driver to take advantage of the full power of the engine. During testing our customers have gained as much as .3 seconds and 3 mph on stock vehicles. The more power you make and the more traction you have the larger the gains. For example our shop C6 with engine work and a set of ET streets we have seen a .6 second gain with a 5 mph increase."

Part #tork0005
$249.95

http://www.cartek.net/parts/electron...csc6main.html#

#2. hddeuce:

I'd rather err on the side of caution. I do not know your driving skill as you do not know mine. I respectfully suggest that you are careful when turning off TC and AH. The track is perfect for this. If you have any further questions don't hesitate to ask. Good luck!

 

 

Other than it being a cheesy way of ducking excessive warranty claims, nothing wrong with that picture at all.
Stating this for the tenth time now, it sells more cars...a 400hp rating sells more cars than a 350hp one does, very simple 8th grade level economics/marketing actually.

My car (auto) has it without any shadow of a doubt. On cold tires on a cold road I can spin the tires effortlessly and the car feels like an animal.
At the track on heated tires where they have some traction it bogs down BADLY, feels like a totally different (ie: slower) car while launching/shifting.

 

Very expensive switch to shut off your ABS which reduces drag not torque, damn this gets tiring.

 

That is total BS and you should know it. Think for a minute, your at a standing start and you launch a 3000 lb car now explain the chain of events that may take place. As far as this pull timing thing, I lost 10rwhp by increasing timing 10 degrees. Torque is a force not a calculated wet dream, where are the Torque measuring transducers, they don't exist. Your tune out torque management is the algorithms for your active handling. Which is similar to that advertised magic TM module which, by the way, just shuts off your ABS, which is drag reduction not any torque BS. Interesting that box was introduced 6 months before anyone could read the Code in the C6 Electronics. I think the acronym TM should be Tuner Masturbation rather than Torque Management.

 

Well into the sixteenth century, long after many explorers returned from the New World, some die-hard pseudo-scientists still maintained that the earth is flat.

In the same vein, TM-is-a-myth believers are a dwindling group on the CF, but their die-hards will never be persuaded.

Ranger

 

i would be very interested to see what type of 'gains' one would get if the only items changed were the TM numbers.

the tuning software allows one to change the 'input' and 'output' numbers.

it is possible to see is TM really is tuned out by ONLY CHANGING THE VALUES FOR THE TM SETTINGS, DO NOT CHANGE OR MODIFY ANYTHING ELSE, no timing changes, injectors, etc. make no other changes to the computer via the tuing software just raise the values associated with TM. let's see if it makes any differance.

this should tell show us if the TM options in the popular tuning software actually does what everyone claims. remember dont change anything else, just raise the values for the TM settings.

 

I thought it worked that way to pulled abs brake fuse slower. without abs back brakes lock cant spin tires to heat.but could still feel tm.the abs computer is only one part of tm and a/h is another. Cartek is well known as the best . jimman why would we believe you. just what are you known for.

 

that may be true. you can shift, but can you really shift. NO. if you could you would feel it. keep practicing

 

Anyone, like Ranger, with tons of passes knows it exists.
The only way to make a great pass is to have some tire spin.

My car runs identical times on street tires and ET Streets even though my 60's are down by about .3 with the ET Streets. The harder my car hooks, the worse it gets. No one will convince me it is not there. Bolt on a set of sticky tires and watch you times barely improve. I picked up .4-.5 with sticky tires on the C5 Z.

 

I am curious though i know it is 2 different cars,

Do the GTO's have the same prob as we do. I would assume (though this has got me in more trouble in the past by assuming) that a 30k car would have the same if not cheaper parts in it then a 44k car.

That being said do they also have a bog in their acceleration as described by a C6 owner.

Just was curious if any one has or have talked to some one with a GTO at the track.

Same engine...same prob???

 

Dennis, I had to laugh when I read this. I realize you don't know me, and have never ridden with me. Trust me when I tell you I can shift very well. I'd almost bet money that nobody on the forum - including Ranger, can shifter faster than me. I don't mean that as bragging, it's just something that I am REALLY good at. I've been doing it for 40 years, btw.

Like I said, come on down to Houston if anyone doesn't believe me.

 

Don't doubt that's true.

So then it must be TM that is holding back your ETs to around the Chevy spec.

Generally guys that shift really well beat the Chevy spec by a significant margin. I'm four tenths under the Chevy spec for my C6Z and still battling the ravages of TM. I was under six tenths on the C5Z06.

Ranger

 

Ranger, I was just coming back on the forum to delete my reference to being able to shifter faster than you. I realize I may stir some controversy on that and don't mean to. Nor do I want to imply I'm a better driver than you.

As far as my 1/4 mile times, let me be sure everyone understands. I ran a 12.49 the first time I ever took my first C6 to the drag strip. That night I made five or six runs total, and it was maybe the 6th or 7th time I have ever been to a drag strip. My 60' time was 1.94 on that run. I've read many of your posts where you say it takes 50 runs to get the best out of a car (assuming a talented driver).

My point is that I don't think you can look at my times and say they are being held back by anything other than driver skill and experience.

My stand on TM is well documented. Let me be sure I'm clear on that as well. I'm not an engineer, and have never been into the programming to see what is there. My comments are simply this...I have only felt the effects of what some people are descrbing once - and that was before I turned AH & TC completely off. With them completely off, I have never felt the effects that are being described.

Secondly, I have spoken to a very well known and respected "tuner" who has told me more than once that any TM on manual tranmissions C6's is "negligible". He is a guy who does not like to get into forum wars, so I will respect him by not posting who it is. But I also know for a fact that other people on this forum know him and have been told the same thing. One of those people is the guy who turned a 12.23 in a bone stock C6, and he agrees with me.

On a final note, I have "tested" my car against three other C6s. All of them are six speed Z51s, mine is a six speed F55. I outran two of them quite convincingly - and I don't mean on the launch or shifting. I simply drove away from them the entire runs. One constant - I had TM & AC COMPLETELY off, and they did not. The other run we both had everything turned off, and we ran dead even to over 100mph, at which time he began to pull away from me (likely due to aerodyanmics - mine is a convertible, his a coupe).

Please don't take it that I'm saying there is or is not TM on manual C6's. I'm simply passing along my observations and experiences.

 

I laughed too, Dennis didn't mince his words did he?

But I really cracked up with your reply, he pressed the right button or what?

Sir, I feel you now have to step up to the plate. If one makes such assertions about ones driving skills they should honorably be backed up with the appropriate proof. I CALL FOR A RACE BETWEEN YOU AND RANGER. YOU BROUGHT HIM UP, DID YOU NOT? YOU PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS, $100,000.00 MINIMUM. YOU ARE THE CHALLENGER, HE CHOOSES THE TRACK AND DAY ETC...HE BETS NOTHING AND CAN ONLY LOOSE THE RACE. I WLL BE THERE. I SUSPECT THAT THE C6 Z06 FORUM AS WELL AS OURS WILL BE INTERESTED IN YOUR REPLY. YOU WILL NEED JEET KUNE DO SHIFTING.

YOURS TRULY SR0707

 

There are a lot of moving parts to running fast times. Shifting is certainly one area where time wastage can be wrung out of a pass. A good manual-tranny driver will shift faster than an auto tranny can. And not suffer that pesky additional driveline loss of the auto-tranny.

I appreciate the sentiment that jschindler expressed about his shifting.

Ranger