yea yea i know your from texas and you have the fastest draw

 

'06C6FVR' ran his 12.23 in Houston and ALSO after only a few passes in his bone stock Z51 manual right?
How is it that you're .26 slower than him if you 1) don't have a TM issue and/or 2) are among the best shifters on the board?
Yes you have a 'vert now (you did have a coupe though) versus his coupe which could be a slight factor and yes his is an '06 but still.
He could've had better air of course.
Not refuting anything, just curious.

 

I asked this question a while back but never got a response. Was that 12.23 an anomoly, or does he regularly run 12.2's? That might also help answer the question. I ran my stock C6 to a 12.31, but only once, I could run 12.4's all day but once I got lucky, it was my only 12.3 ever.. TM??? I made about 20 passes, 19 in the 12.4's and only 1 in the 12.3's.

 

Quite an interesting thread. A couple of points I'd like to add. In my 99 I could defineatly "feel" the difference when I put the car into "competetive" driving! That car was a 6 spd and ran great. It turned 12.6's & 12.7"s all day long, but, I never got lower than a 1.9 60 foot time. Now I have an A6 '06. It still doesn't have 2000 miles on it, but, the few times I got into it "feels" like it holds back. I has had traction issues with my 99. I'm hopeing that the A6 will hook better. As to TM...I do think it exists.

 

Man is this getting OLD. Some Vette people should talk to some other car people, TM has been a concern for the Camaro, Firebird, Regal GS, Gran Prix crowd since the late 90's. It's not new, it is there. There was a gentleman on this board who kept saying it was part of the AH. I kept asking how that could be as neither my "00 Camaro SS or my wife's '98 Regal GS have or could have had AH. Never got an answer, now it appears the same person is stating it is part of ABS. Other than in a "drag race" situation do I see where this would be a problem. Now let's open a whole new can of worms. With the A6 even after you solve your TM problems(by the way it is set for each gear change and you can adjust the %), there is a small, I forget how many milliseconds shift delay, built into the TCM. Yes A6 cars are back to having a seperate control module. A tuner with the proper software can also adjust this. Not looking to get into a spitting match, I do not and don't claim to know it all. I have had my cars used, for R&D work, by a major after market firm who for many years was a Tier 1 vendor for GM and still has extremely close relations with them. I can explain the diff I felt in my A6 after the TM was changed(0% for all gear changes except 5th to 6th) in terms the older people may be able(and some lucky yunguns)understand. With the shifter in S and the ECM controlling, before it felt like you were in a healthy '60's big block Chevelle that was being "granny" shifted, after with NO other changes to the car if felt like a full bore "power shifted" run. Do I have comparison times no, these are only seat of the pants feelings, but concidering that 99% of the time my car is being driven on the street not the track I am very satisfied with the changes.

 

TCS Torque Request Signal: This parameter indicates the percentage of available torque requested from the engine to the transmission as calculated by the control module. The scan tool will display a higher value for higher torque, and a lower value for lower torque.

TCS Torque Request Signal: This parameter indicates the torque requested from the engine to the transmission as calculated by the control module. The scan tool will display a higher value for higher torque, and a lower value for lower torque.

Torque Delivered Signal: This parameter indicates the torque delivered from the engine to the transmission as calculated by the control module. The scan tool will display a higher value for higher torque, and a lower value for lower torque.

Torque Management Spark Retard: This parameter indicates how much the ignition spark timing is being retarded to control torque by the control module. The scan tool will display a higher value under extreme torque control conditions such as spinning wheels. The scan tool will display a lower value under low torque control conditions such as light driving.
BTW that is right out of the service manual for the 2007 Z06

Cannot blame it on GM, look at the 100nds of forum threads where people have toasted the clutch or both types of transmissions and expects GM to cover it under warranty when owner manhandles 3,500 lbs of car so they do what they can to limit costs to abuse of those parts

Look at how much cheaper it is to insure a Corvette today then what they used to be shows the safety electronics/sensors do reduce crashes while also protecting drivetrain.
Nothing prevents outputting higher torque, what they do is prevent sudden shock/stress of a spike of high torque or a sudden loss of traction

 

Thanks for the explanation, boosted_z06.

One point of clarification and a question.

Suspect you mean 2006 service manual, released about two months ago.

And can you provide a cite to the page in the service manual? Its index leaves a bit to be desired.

TIA,

Ranger

 

It was out of the 2007 service manual that I was looking at and not the 2006 but those terms have been used by GM since the 1997 C5

Not know the page being I am looking at the online form, it is where they define all terms used in the service manual.
Look at the electronics section and then "terms"

 

Thanks for the quick clarification.

Ranger

 

just a couple of questoins.

what is / where is the control module

how does it calculate the torque values

what are the conditions that will trigger a torque management event ?

excessive wheelspin apears to be one, are there others ?

wheelspin and traction control ???

 

Working with the term "Torque Management" AND "Spark Retard" I googled up a tasty little article in the online edition of GM HiTech Performance.

http://gmhightechperformance.com/tech/0603htp_flash/index.html

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com/tech/0603htp_flash/index1.html

A few quotes:

The engine calibration "Ignition" tab exposes spark delivery and retard tables. The final delivered spark advance is actually a sum of various parameters, so no one single table will define absolute spark advance. Understanding how these tables interact is necessary to make productive changes on these pages. Only make small changes to start with, until you become familiar with how the tables interact.

Launch spark retard is analogous to the burst knock we've seen in older LS1-edit. The launch retard is one factor added in the process of figuring final spark delivery timing.

Torque management by rpm for a selected gear tables will look like this from the factory. Each table shows the maximum allowable torque for a certain rpm.

More torque management is found under the "Torque" section. Traction control and launch control can be toggled on this page too. And again, another rear axle ratio scalar.

Bottom line results: Dyno testing on SLP Performance Parts' Superflow dyno in Toms River, New Jersey, resulted in peak gains of 10.0 SAE rwhp/7.1 SAE rwft-lbs. We also gained a few ponies across the whole curve. Power gains were only part of the result, we can't put a dyno value on the pumped up shifting, removed torque management, or eliminated DTC light.

Ranger

 

Here is a hyperlinked index that explains TM courtesy of HPTuners:

Jimman might want to click around and do some reading.

TM General and Abuse Mode

Be sure to look to the left margin and click explanations all the Torque Management pages: General, Engine Torque, and Abuse.

I'm the researcher, not the answer man on this question.

I'm just trying to find a way to drive around TM by understanding enough to avoid its penalty.

Ranger

 

This makes me and my (currently stock) A6 feel very good about the future.

 

Let me try to address this and some of the other issues brought up regarding my post. First, I bragged about my shifting. As Ranger pointed out, there is more to a good 1/4 mile time than shifting. Have you bothered to look at the 60' times I turned vs those of Daren (06C6VFR)? That explains a lot of the difference. What about the weight of the car, the gearing of his Z51 vs my F55, weather conditions, aerodynamics of his coupe vs my vert (look at our trap speeds). Also, I have never dynod my car. I know that two stock C6s could easily dyno 5 rwhp difference. Yes, I had a coupe - but many of the same variables could apply - especially weather. With all due respect, I think there are enough variables to explain it.

As to the other poster who suggested I race Ranger. Heck, he has a Z06. I'd like to think he can outrun me Okay, that was a joke. See paragraph above. I never said I was the best drag racer - did I? My hat is clearly off the Ranger. In fact, go back a few pages on this thread and read where I said there were two peoples opinions I respect regarding the TM issue. I know I did not say so on that post, but Ranger is one of them.

 

I hate to speak for other people, but I do know Daren and have discussed this with him. He freely admits that the 12.23 was an absolutely perfect pass and he would be surprised if he could repeat it. But he has run additional 12.3x's since then. You should also know that Daren had never drag raced a manual transmission car before the night he turned the 12.23, and had only owned one vehicle with a manual - a 4 cylinder Mazda pickup.

My hat is truly off to Daren and his times. He's a hell of a driver. As proud as I was of my 12.49 - especially given how few times I have ever drag raced, I always said that given time someone would turn very low 12s, or even high 11's in a stock C6.

 

My hat is as well, just as with Ranger's bone stock 11.3 runs in his C6 Z06, I was very happy to finally see someone bring the C6 LS2 closer to where (I'd thought) it should be running in the 1/4 mile in spite of the potential TM issues.

 

Please refer to posted reply#15, did I discredit you or the no TM camp? No. Follow my posts, not my style.
Refer to posted reply#36, but if you start a fire...
If there was a joke here today...
So you only respect "two peoples" opinions on TM, I can only assume you have ZERO respect for the rest of them. However, I only care for the last part of this post.
Not only are your #s dwindling, one "lost face"...
This is the Tech/Perf/1/4 Mile Challenge section, I accept your open challenge, posted# 36, answer with your car.
"Trek down" to Florida I'll race you at my track, no money. Should be an easy win, I can't drive and my 'vette is erratic, slower than yours.

Best regards,
SR0707

 

I have to be honest with you. I don't even understand several of the points you have made here.

As to the challenge, I sure wish you would go back and read my posts carefully. I never said I was a great drag racer, or that I can beat anybody. My only claim had to do with how fast I can shift. That was in response to Dennis' thread implying that I need more work on my shifting - and that because of my inability to shift that I am not seeing what others are seeing regarding TM during shifts.

I'm sorry that my posts have offended you. They were not meant to offend anyone or for me to say I am the greatest. They were only meant to share my experiences and to address those who question my basis for my opinions.

One last thing, my 1/4 mile times are posted in two different categories in the sticky thread in the C6 Tech section. Where are you on that list? Oh, gee. I just went and looked. I have put two C6s on that list faster than your time! I guess I can save a trip to Florida!

 

Yes, I must admit that I had to go back and find this post that you referred to above. Like I said, I never claimed to be a great drag racer. But I really have to ask - WHAT THE HELL WERE YOUR THINKING WHEN YOU POSTED THIS? Ranger has a Z06 and I have a F55 convertible. What would he and I drag racing prove even if I did claim I was a better drag racer than him (which I did not)?

 

Okay, found this one too. I must say that I really don't understand what this post is saying at all, or what "camp" you are saying I'm in.

Lay it on me, I can handle it!