Originally Posted by Ranger

Please provide a cite of where I made that statement.

Ranger

Originally Posted by dennis50nj

senses torque at rear wheels. then retards timing and shuts trottlebody. slows you down no rear wheel power so you don't break as many parts

Originally Posted by C6400hp

Schindler, get some sticky tires and you will feel the TM on 1-2 shifts and 2-3 shifts.

Originally Posted by SR0707

jschindler, You lost face, credibility and my respect. Do not hide in words as offended. I'm not offended, I am embarassed to be in the same forum with you. Don't want your kind in my platoon.

Originally Posted by Newton06

I have a manual.

Originally Posted by Ranger

But of course, the world must be flat, because the pseudo-engineers continue to "have doubts."

Members can lay out what the Frinking service manual says about Torque Management. Back it up by
(1) the tuning software metrics
(2) GM HiTech Performance article on tuning out TM
(3) countless affirmations by experienced drag racers
(4) many tuners who help owners turn-off TM and achieve improved acceleration.
(5) now the graphics by boosted_Z06

Is that enough evidence....?

Of course not. To them, the world is still flat and will always be flat....Until someone finally produces credible evidence that it's not. They will go to the grave in the dug-in position that TM is a myth.

My last post. When I figure out the technique for driving around TM, I won't be posting it here.

Ranger

Originally Posted by boosted_z06

Now after my tuner did his magic you see a hard pull to 120 MPH and just under 7,000 RPMs.
Hard wheel spin off the line and then HP and torque never drop to negative values until I got off gas pedal so TM exists can can be tuned without turning it off

Originally Posted by 4 MY EGO

My ex wife matches the above description perfectly.

Originally Posted by Ranger

Please provide a cite of where I made that statement.

Ranger

Originally Posted by glennhl

Hey, why are all you guys attacking JSchindler? He's just being inquisitive and he just wants data to show that TM does exist. I'm sorry if I also appear to be a skeptic, it's just that I am also looking for hard data that TM exists. I haven't had my car tuned, so I don't have back to back runs to see what differences there are with TM off. But showing a graph that has negative torque margin is interesting, but all graphs will show negative torque during a granny shift, unless it's an auto or speed shifting a manual. Hey, let's all lighten up a little, we are all after the same thing, trying to figure out how to make our cars go faster. Just because someone questions the proof or data doesn't make them evil! And Ranger, please give us the secrets to going fast, you are my hero! Don't hold back the info.

Thanks,
Glenn

Originally Posted by jschindler

Hmmm, I guess I need to address this. I have Z06 tires on my car.

Originally Posted by jschindler

Glenn - thanks for the support.

Honestly, I can be a bit hard headed, and argumentative. Except for SR0707, I don't have any issues with the way they have shot back at me. I've done the same to them.

I just sent "boosted.." a PM apologizing if I have offended him, and I want to make that public. He has posted good information and done it in a respectful way.

Ranger is my idol. Not only is he probably THE best driver of Corvettes in the country, and far and away the best on the forum, but he has handled himself with nothing but class and dignity.

I'm learning a lot on this thread. I just can't hold back my experiences. I know I can come across as an *******. But I can assure you that most of ya'll would enjoy my company. I'm really a good guy, and as honest as you'll ever meet.

Originally Posted by jschindler

Dennis, you took what you referred to as a good natured shot at me yesterday, so let me return the favor. Your C6 has an automatic transmission right? How can you think you know what I'm describing on the TWO C6's with manual transmissions that I've owned? I'm simply relating the experiences I've had with my car compared to what some people are describing.

At least I can say that I now have 10,000 miles of experience with manual transmissions C6's to go by. How about you?

Originally Posted by jschindler

First of all, ya'll need to understand that my comments are not designed to "prove" that TM does not exist. My comments are simply playing the devils advocate to the PROOF that ya'll are trying to offer. Please don't flame me or anyone else for questioning the data that ya'll are presenting. We have just as much right to debate this issue as you do.

As to the above acertation. You say it's well known that it takes .4 seconds to shift. Certainly you can agree that a shift can take longer than that, right? I didn't imply that the "ECU has no creditility", I questioned how you can be sure that the time on your chart is not just the time it took to shift. I'm not saying its not so, I'm just saying that there is no proof of it.

Stickier tires? Sure, they can cause an engine to "bog" right?

Don't shift or launch hard enough? Even Ranger admits that its mainly a problem at the drag strip and on drag radials.

Again, let me repeat (because some people insist on questioning my and others stance). I don't dissagree that timing may be pulled under certain "events". But I have launched plenty hard, and shifted extremely hard. What I don't feel - not even remotely - is the "falling on its face" that others report. In fact, I can assure you that my car shifts very hard - there is no softness at all to the hit when I bang the gears.

If it makes ya'll feel any better, I'll go ahead and concede that TM does exist in some form or fashion. Just not what many people say they feel.

Originally Posted by dennis50nj

Jim I am not in any way offended just a debate. the reason you cant feel it when you shift because it happens after you shift if you shift a high enough rpm there probably isn't as much torque and it might not set it off but i have road in many stickshifts and drove many in competition. they are very illusional of being a lot faster than what they are so it would be hard to tell. don't get me wrong i love manuals raced them the first twenty years off racing.then when bracket racing got big everyone was going auto so did i. but i can still drive friends manuals faster then they drive there own.i have even taught my daughter to drive a stick in one day better than her racer boyfriend.and now that you have 10,00 miles where is a new time slip to see if you learnedanything with all that seat time in your stick.

Originally Posted by boosted_z06

In 40 plus years of drag racing I know with stock tires and powershifting it takes around 3 to 4 tenths for the engine to recover from a shift and anyone thinking it takes almost 1 second to move shifter from 1 gear to another needs to time their own shifts and see what it is but in this case let's just say I take 4 tenths and the other 4 is from TM.

Originally Posted by glennhl

OK, I agree with you, it does look very odd. How about your second graph that doesn't have any negative torque. Do you have a manual or auto? If it's a manual, are you speed shifting? I would expect with a normal shift you should see some negative torque.

Originally Posted by glennhl

Boosted, I liked the graphs you posted earlier. One showed negative torque during shifts, one did not. I would think that if you are granny shifting any manual you will get some negative torque. So were you shifting differently between those two graphs?