yes, well....maybe....

i have begun to see the possibility of it existing.

if some of the assumptions are true, i can see or understand the position of some.

for example, if gm is using the same software program for both versions of the car (manual and auto) and the thresholds for a tm event are the same for both vehicles, i can understand how one may be able to experience a tm event.

this is how i would understand it too work.

1. all 'control modules' (pcm,ecm, etc.) have the same software loaded at the factory.

2. both versions measure and calculate hp/trq in the same manner, using measurements from the air intake, rpms, etc.

3. even though the tcm does not apply to the manual transmission car the settings in the pcm are the same.

4. if the conditions that would trigger a tm event in the automatic are experienced in the manual, the pcm tm event is tripped.

that's about as far as i got. i still haven't found out what triggers it other than the speculation from others and the other possibility of simply using an rpm/gear lookup table. i'm still very interested in the ve of the engine when a tm event gets triggered, looks like i may have to figure that one out myself, i was hoping someone else may have already done the math.

 

Lots of ifs and assumptions, of which several I don't agree. I am a software engineer by trade, and so my opinions are influenced by my professional experiences.

First, in my mind there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that torque management exists, and it exists at several levels. The evidence is overwhelming. Several different software products allow the TM control parameters to be changed. This includes LS2Edit, HP Tuners, EFILive, and Predator. Many different owners have attested to the fact that after their TM parameters were changed, the performance of their car changed. Exactly how much it changed, and how consistently the changes took effect, is not clear. In my opinion, this is understandable.

Second, there is little doubt in my mind that the PCM has an effective method of computing TQ. Perhaps there is a built in accelerometer built into the PCM, but I rather doubt it. I suspect that it is a computed value based on how quickly the engine increases RPMs in a given gear, throttle position, ABS readings (are the wheels just spinning or is the car really accelerating), etc. How accurate and consistent this computation is also at question.

The PCM programming is obviously quite complex, and in the case of the A6, there are actually two separate control modules involved. When a tune is loaded into the main PCM, the tables are approximately 2 megabytes in size. There are LOTS of tables and parameters being processed, and the only folks who truly understand how the processing works are the GM software engineers. The tuning companies may know some of it, but they basically have to reverse engineer the process, and learn by inference. GM isn't about to release their code, and the tuning companies aren't about to share everything they know either, for competitive reasons. Bottom line is that the average guy is NEVER going to understand how all the processing actually works, and it is not so simple to "do the math".

It seems to me that TM works differently for M6, A4, and A6 cars, but it's not clear exactly what the differences are. It is not clear to me that what triggers TM in an auto tranny will also trigger the same TM effects in an M6.

My personal approach is pretty simple. I plan to get my own copy of HP Tuners, buy a mail-order tune from a reputable vendor, load it into my PCM, then start tweaking parameters, and log the results. I might also consult with my local tuner, and do some dyno testing. End of story.

 

It seems to me that TM works differently for M6, A4, and A6 cars, but it's not clear exactly what the differences are. It is not clear to me that what triggers TM in an auto tranny will also trigger the same TM effects in an M6.

 

I know there are many disbeleivers in the cartek module but for those that have had tuning do you think that the removal of TQ managment is real? When I delete TQ managment and for those I have tuned it out on their cars, the car performs better. Do you agree with HPtuners and LS1edit's ability to remove something and that thing may be called TQ mang.?

 

Not disbeleiving of the Cartek Module only on what they modified with it, reduceing drag by messing with your brakes is not TM. Had both LS2 edit and HP tune done with mine, nothing at all to do with so called TM only mix and time on the dyno. Ran great before and greater after but nothing involving TM. Spent nearly 6 hours on the dyno total and stood right there with them and them being one of the best in CA.

 

CARTEK MODULE:
In all fairness, it does not limit the effects of TM by 'reducing drag' and also certainly does not achieve it's goal by 'messing with your brakes'.

The fact it happens to disable ABS is, in technical terms "an artifact"; that is, it is certainly not the primary mechanism involved in achieving it's stated purpose, and is but an unfortunate side effect.

DYNO:
Because TM is dynamic based on exceeding peak torque thresholds as measured through an algorithm that uses many sensor inputs, I think triggering it on a dyno even if you tried is difficult, and clearly is not happening during the standard run up and measure regime.

Is anyone paying any attention whatsoever?

If someone will please teach me the secret handshake, I would like to sign up for the underground subnet of CF where we all have to take an oath to SEEK and SPEAK the truth, irrespective of our own biases, wishes, and proclivities, in order to gain entry.

 

Nice trick with only a connection to the brakes.

 

that's why there cars are among the fastest. its Magical.

 

Actually it connects to the ABS, Speed Sensor, Tach, TPS, + and -12vdc.

 

Exactly.

 

Like I said the ABS, that's what those are for.

 

Ok, am I imagining things again. Sure sounds like some people are saying your brakes are engaging by themselves again.

That is BS in my opinion. With AH off your brakes will engage only one way. If you take your foot and press on the brake pedal. That is it, no other way for brakes to slow you up. Now someone prove that wrong.

 

I think we may be jumping to conclusions that since the Cartek TM module connects into the ABS that it is somehow preventing TM from engaging the brakes.

My thought is that the ABS system, very much like TM, is not a simple one-dimensional process. The ABS system is capable of certain computations, such as sensing when the rear wheels are spinning faster than the fronts. I believe a similar computation may be involved in computing the TQ delivered to the drivetrain. If the Cartek module can modify these computations, or the results of the computations, that could allow it to diminish the effects of TM.

Just a hypothesis....

 

Or make a run in default then turn on module and sever link to Brakes which is the main interface of Active handling and bingo three tenths.

 

Confusing, ok let me see if I got it. All the module does is turn off AH?? Why not just use the button?

 

No, that's NOT all it does.

 

Why do we keep coming back to the brakes and drag??

 

Can't sell button it's already there.

 

Except when on a dyno with the rear tires turning and the fronts not causes heartburn to GM's software logic since it monitors each wheels rotation to be turning at about same rotational speed, trips error codes and could effect TM or TC and that is even in comp mode.

 

Dang, I've been gone four days and this one is still going - same players, same opinions. Cool!