Just an idea of how much the temps impact the Vette.

I went to the track 2 weeks ago for the first time with the Vette, 06 manual Z51.

Raced from 6-7 pm, in the sun, track temp were 93 rolling through the staging lanes like stop and go traffic for about 10 mins before running..

3 runs.. Between 13.3-13.5@106-108mph

Let the car cool off and waited until sundown and raced 3 more times between 9-10pm. Track temp of 74

3 runs, 12.7-12.8@112-113.5

Since I have installed a CAI and looking into a 160 stat and maybe a tune.

 

You guys can be as passionate about the issue as you want, but I still think it's harming your engines for an extra 5 HP while you're putting down the highway at 35mph at 1200 RPM. How many of you guys actually compete at the drag strip enough for this crap to matter? If I was racing for pinks, I'd do it, but some of you guys make it sound like a cooler car has no drawbacks. The only place where any of these modifications matter is upon warm startup, like the drag strip, and low speed, i.e. stop and go driving.

Regarding the water boiling off, consider the following scenario:
1. Car has armchair engineer cooling devices installed, owner takes a short trip, car doesn't get up to operating temp, some condensation remains.
2. Stock car warms up during short trip, boils off condensation.

Regarding the wear issue, I recall seeing a GM document on this forum that discussed advanced wear rates at sub-spec operating temp. It makes sense to me - the cylinder wall is Cast iron, the piston is AL, the rings are some type of hard alloy steel. The coefficients of thermal expansion are all different.

Go read the Z06 forum to hear about the guys removing the external oil cooler and installing an oil/coolant cooler to HEAT the oil. You can also reference any automotive owner manual for the past 20 something years regarding short trips and severe duty classification.

Anyways, I'm just frustrated that both sides of this argument are not fully covered enough on this forum.

 

A voice in the wilderness

 

"Regarding the wear issue, I recall seeing a GM document on this forum that discussed advanced wear rates at sub-spec operating temp. It makes sense to me - the cylinder wall is Cast iron, the piston is AL, the rings are some type of hard alloy steel. The coefficients of thermal expansion are all different."

Yes, but those "sub-spec" temps were much, much lower than running at 160 to 190 degrees.

 

"Regarding the wear issue, I recall seeing a GM document on this forum that discussed advanced wear rates at sub-spec operating temp. It makes sense to me - the cylinder wall is Cast iron, the piston is AL, the rings are some type of hard alloy steel. The coefficients of thermal expansion are all different."

Yes, but those "sub-spec" temps were much, much lower than running at 160 to 190 degrees.

 

Ok, as an update...driving around today in 90 degree houston weather my car never saw over 195.

 

I see folks worry about the smallest things, t-stats ruining an engine, dirt seeping through air filter, etc. Kind of funny. I'm just not smart enough to understand the physics of it I suppose. Then again, I ran an aftermarket t-stat in a car for 8+ years, with heads, cam, 14+lbs of boost, etc. Nary a problem.

 

Gee, I though I covered the severe duty classsifation in the last paragraph of my post #17. In regard to your frustration, there are plenty of threads regarding coolant temperature & oil temperature in which both sides of the argument are clearly discussed.

Those of us who do play with changing & modifying engines are well aware of the pros & cons....... we insure that the oil temp is warm before we beat the car.......it is just common sense.

When cars had carbs you had to wait to get on it because the choke would lock out the secondaries. Individuals think that because fuel injected cars just start without touching the gas pedal ....... there is no need for them to reach operating temperature to "go fast" ...... duh

We realize that you can damage the engine & etc..... You do not have to be a rocket scientist to realize that you can not beat a car just after it starts and expect it to last.

It is not our fault that some of the Z06 guys can not wait until their oil gets to operating temperature to beat it ........ GM did not put the oil temp on the DIC to be cute

If you know what you are doing and maintain the car it will last. I drove a 89, 5.0 liter Mustang as a daily driver from 91 - 05. I installed a vortech supercharger with 10 PSI of boost, with 160 stat, larger radiator, cooling fan set to 160. Nothing other than normal wear.

Now if you only drive a car a few miles to work each day. The oil never gets warm, and trouble starts.

 

Dont you love it when observed performance shows different results than the PHD guys predict due to a lack of a complete model with left out variables.

The software engineers that programmed the PCM to pull timing at high coolant temps and high IAT temps dont eat at the same table as the other engineers at GM. Cooler cars run faster. 160 thermo's run cooler as observed.

 

imo, hotter combustion chamber temps AND cooler intake temps run faster.

 

That's correct UNTIL you reach the limits of controlled combustion. With aggressive timing curves and 11:1 squeeze Chevy put us at the edge and then added hot cylinder heads which can/will make the motor detonate. Then KR kicks in and you lose power. Run the motor a little cooler, your timing stays high, and you make more power.

 

agreed, that's why reduced timing advance isn't necessarily a bad thing.

it's all about knowing when to start the combustion process.

ever see an engine with tdc or after ignition timing?

 

my temp dropped when I loaded the predator program! might do the same with custom tune

 

harming my engine.....my college car never got oil changes and dint have a thermostat. At 170k miles I gave it to my brother. I think you are exaggerating a bit. To each his own.

I've seen taxi cabs in NYC with 300k+ miles on the odometer and they dont have thermostats or use Mobile one. I cant think of worse conditionas than that type of driving.

No condensation remains in a car running 20 degrees cooler than stock.

 

I have a 160 degree thermo stat and the car's oil hits full operating temps before I get down the street. The car running at 192 degrees isnt doing damage. I see 200 at stop lights and that is doing damage by not allowing water to evaporate out of the oil? I dont think the car needs to see 220 to take care of water.

 

Big city taxi cab duty is easy on engines. They never cool off during a shift and their average power load is low. That is why they last so long.

If you want to talk about wear and tear on suspension, bumpers, fenders, brakes, door latches and hinges.....that's another story.

 

Hey Spin,

I typed if you only go a several miles and the oil never gets warm. I do not know where you got the 220 degrees from ??? not me! Try running the car at 220 degrees (oil temp) for approximately five hours. Then check your oil pressure and check your oil. You will notice the pressure has dropped a bit and the oil smells burnt. So I am not a big fan of hot is better. The oil temp has to be not too cold and not too hot........ just like the three bears

Beating on a car that does not reach the proper oil temp will cause wear. My wife only drives a few miles to work and nails it as soon as she leaves the driveway (I usually wait until the oil temp is aproximately 170 -180 degrees or what I consider operating temp) You should see what her rod bearings & etc look like when we took the motor out of the car

BTW
I have a 160 stat and it takes a bit longer for mine to reach operating temp (oil temp) ............... of course I drive mine like a little old lady

 

After installing 160 stat and a tune I'm maintaining 174-178 highway temps and my oil temp remains at 200-205.. I'm not an engineer or a rocket scientist but I wouldn't think condensation could survive with oil temps over 200.. ??

And for the pro lower temp guys.. my car pulls like a freight train now.. and all the time..

 

yup, some people just like to talk about their own theory and has no experience or data to back it up since they had never done it on a c6.

if they have hptuners software and can see how much timing is pull due to high ect & iat. they would be jumping ship in a second.

 

I have a 160* Tstat and the fan is set to turn on earlier. Freeway driving or driving in cool conditions have my coolant temps at 180*, around town stop and go driving puts me in the 190* range, and hot weather bad traffic puts me just over 200* usually.

Only drawback im noticing is that it takes longer to get my oil nice and warm before my right foot hits the floor. I definitely feel the benefit of the lower coolant temps, which Im sure is due to the ECU not pulling timing from what used to be FREQUENT coolant temps over 200 and up to 230*.