Would you feel dumb for having a real Rolex if someone else went on Ebay and bought a Chinese replica for $30?
As with everything in life, you get what you pay for... I had "SS Autochrome" exhaust on a Subaru some years ago; buying cheap crap is very common in the import market since if you are driving a riced out *** car it is most probably because you could not afford a car that was fast from the factory to begin with. It looked great: all shiny when it came in . But the fitment was subpar and the exhaust sounded like absolute crap. Then when I took it off a year later for some Borla stuff I noticed it was rusting around the welds and one of them had cracked.
I think if I had to buy 400 dollar headers I would probably just save the money and not mod the car to begin with? And this is coming from someone who HAS bought 400 dollar headers in the past

 

Sorry Nick, I buy ss tubing from all over the world and you are off base completely. I've got about 40,000 feet of it in various sizes and types in my warehouse right now with mill certs and different ASTM classes. (including some hastelloy and titanium tubing). We use tubing in much more difficult applications than a header build and are accountable to a lot of organizations for its use (injectable drugs, nuclear groups, high pressure heat exchangers, etc etc)

I'm trying to DEFEND the American Header manufacturers by saying that the cost of the tubing is basically irrelevant to the cost of the header. Please dont try to justify header pricing based on the cost of Chinese tubing vs American tubing because that doesnt make the difference between $369 and $1800. The reason your header is so much more expensive is because you are paying American wages, American benefits, American Insurance, development fees, marketing, legal etc etc. I firmly believe in American manufacturing and quality obviously and buy American whenever I can. Unfortunately once the development is done its easy for others to steal and feed off the fruits of your labor.

I own an American engineering/design/fabrication company and I get nicked all the time by China when they steel and copy my equipment, it sucks. We just have to be THAT much better and hope that we can still be competitive.

 

I bought Kooks 1 3/4 6600-EX headers and 6115-CC Hi Flo Cats from you with free Jet Hot Coating (in and out) and shipping and paid around $1,150 a year ago. I still think I got a steal!

Are these chinese header ebay sellers also selling Hi Flo Cats? If no, you got to add the cost of those too in your deal. Otherwise, if you are going without cats, its stinky smell time around the car.


Let us know which tires you buy that keep your Z06 (with your new headers) from spinning on the street. It may be mission impossible unless you go drag radials.

 

Tig welded? No! Wrong Metal, Plus if they used no argon gas the weld would be full of holes.
Plus looking in the collector shows. Thin tubing on the primarys
and they are chromed with no cats. Plus that isn't how good stainless tube looks on the inside! When your making $400.00 headers your going to use cheap tubing. These are cheap copy's are are no way near
Kook's, ARH, in any measure! Waste of money!

 

Lets see 08 Z-06 with 365.00 headers! With no warranty! With no cats! Don't like the no cat stink!
Not me! If I needed to save money so bad I would have bought a good header used from the parts forum. My two cents!

 

"Thin tubing on the primarys
and they are chromed with no cats. Plus that isn't how good stainless tube looks on the inside! When your making $400.00 headers your going to use cheap tubing. These are cheap copy's are are no way near
Kook's, ARH, in any measure! Waste of money![/QUOTE] by Rockin


Have any evidence, photos, etc. to back up your claims?

 

It's funny but for every negative post, I get 2 PM's or emails wanting to know where to buy the $365 headers.

Let's face it guys so many of the goods we buy are foreign made that you can't tell what is made here. I heard that Kooks is employing all Mexican labor to build there headers. Does that make Kooks inferior.

I say spend whatever you want and enjoy your cars.

PS I like the stinky smell but haven't noticed it yet. Maybe it's the brand of gas I use. Hey it might be Chineese too

 

You really have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Please do yourself a favor and learn something about stainless steel welding, tubing in particular before you post something like this. Where did you ever come up with "argon gas the weld would be full of holes", this one really takes the cake. Argon is used as a barrier gas in a high quality tubing weld to PREVENT porosity in the weld on the interior of the tubing. Maybe you'd like to pay my monthly argon bill for one of my installation crews for all the "full of hole" welds we use it on. By the way, our welds include weld log sheets, video boroscoping of the inside of the tube, and often times xray's for validation purposes. You can also check out one of my automatic welding machines that also uses argon as a barrier gas (high purity argon in this instance). Maybe you can also explain what my guys do with all the tig machines we they use on a daily basis for tubing welds.

ps: here is a brief little summary on welding stainless steel, apparently someone forgot to tell the author that tig welding isnt used on stainless, and that argon gas creates holes in the weld:

http://www.brazing.com/techguide/pro.../stainless.asp


Like I said, you cant tell the quality of the tubing from that picture, and you've basically just validated that fact.

ps: A few years ago I was hired as an expert witness for a stainless steel tubular heat exchanger company to help them prove the quality of their weld and techniques. They won the case. Maybe they should have called you instead.

 

by Rockin


Have any evidence, photos, etc. to back up your claims?[/QUOTE]http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-t...rs-x-pipe.html
post 57 shows ARH collector inside. Those are fine for your car.
if thats what you want. If you have them. Is that not chrome
tubing? That is not the same quality tubing used in the top brands.
Did you see Nick from ARH's post! He makes the ARH headers!
Post back in 10k miles and let us know what you think them!

 

I think post #57 proves you 100% wrong. They don't look a bit different in thickness so unless you can cut apart a set of each and mic them then you are just stating opinion not fact.

 

WHEN MIG WELDING WITH NO ARGON. (You couldn't read, NO argon. not with argon)
Leaves the weld full of pin holes thats a fact! The rest of your post has nothing to do with the headers. Looks like cheap tubing from the fact of the color of the inside the collector. Then why chrome over the stainless steel. When it is not needed? It's to cover and keep the cheap tubing from rusting. Look real close at the picture again.
If you think Nick was wrong after they tried the cheap tubing
and said it doesn't work well as far as holding up. I can't help you!
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-t...rs-x-pipe.html pg 3 post 57. Inside shows the difference in the stainless!

 

Here is another thread about collectors: maybe we can add the chinese collector to the menu

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-t...e-headers.html

 

Your right on the thickness! but Look at the color of the stainless in the cheap ones showing discolor and rust, Then look at post 57 again
They are not the same grade of tubing.

 

You really can never admit when you are wrong can you??? You said TIG welding isnt used on stainless steel, period. No one ever mentioned MIG welding. You claim to know what the quality of the tubing is from that picture. The fact is it cant be determined from that picture. Honestly I really don't care what Nick says about tubing because I guarentee I see and use more tubing in a month than ARH does in 10 years. Yes there is some garbage stainless that comes out of China, but not all of it. There is also some garbage tubing that comes out of the USA that is very difficult to weld properly. Please do everyone a favor and step back on this one, because you obviously have no idea what you are talking about and you are embarrasing yourself. PS: I stated earlier that it couldnt be seen whether argon gas was purged. When you weld tubing and want a clean weld on the inside, you have to fiill the inside of the tubing with argon, not just at the tip of the tig unit. Thats what I am referring to by a "purged weld". You can ABSOLUTELY weld tubing without purging the tubing internally and not have any visible holes on the outside of the tubing, but the inside wont look pretty.

How about it, still think that TIG welding stainless is the "wrong metal"? If you want a decent clean looking and strong weld on thin wall ss tubing (usually .065, .083 ,and sometime .103 wall) you TIG and internally purge with argon, period.

And yes, I have LG's on my car and would still buy them today, but not for the reason of the tubing.

 

You just can't read.* Why wouldn't they mig weld with stainless wire?I did not say Argon makes holes!* But Nick knows more about tubing for HEADERS! Claiming you know more about tubing for headers is nuts!

 

True. Though was this you on the fleabay fleaback who said "Good product, tough install and poor fit but overall worth it."? Guess not all is perfect for the $365.00 after all

 

Again, why wont you answer my question about TIG welding that you claimed wasnt for stainless????

It's not nuts saying that either. I use tubing in instances that are FAR MORE CRITICAL, and FAR MORE difficult than a header. Higher temps, MUCH higher pressures, extreme temp changes, vibration, difficult chemicals, difficult gases etc. Tubing in a header is a piece of cake, thats why I say I know more about it. I buy it in many countries and use it for many different things. So I would qualify myself as possibly knowng a bit more about it. And this is not meant to be disrespectful in any way to Nick or to disparrage his knowledge at all. For all I know he has a PHD engineering degree in material science from MIT. I'll say it again, that tubing may be the biggest piece of garbage in the world, but YOU CANT TELL FROM THOSE PICTURES!!! Thats all I'm saying. You are misleading people by saying otherwise.

 

No not perfect but well worth it. Tought part was pulling the starter and lying under the car. Besides that WELL WORTH IT.

 

I should have said wrong process not metal, because you could tig weld them
Do your little miller welders have a roll of welding wire on them?
If so, they are MIG not TIG welders! Those header welds look to be mig welded. not tig welded!

Plus you can laugh at yourself! Read again! I said WITH NO argon
the weld would be bad easily spotted from the outside. Argon gas is sheilding
the weld from the air. Plus it helps tranfer heat to the metal No, Argon you have a bad weld.
Granted I only weld mild steel. But I can easy out weld you on mild steel. Overhead and vertical up.
OR around a PIPE!

I have welded miles and miles of weld. My welds were tested in many ways before I was certified to weld!
But after 3 welds the tester said go back to work your welds are great.
In my job of 33 years and counting. I welded with stick welders until they came out with the automatic MIG welders.