As I said, it was required to integrate said system into the car. It could not work with struts. Keeping the strut and trying to add an additional electronic damper is not forward thinking. Nor would it work with any of the strut suspensions (double pivot or the older single-joint) or allow the same control of compression and rebound as the VDM system allows. Instead, a new design was chosen with this system in mind.

Really has nothing to do with the M5, which won't be out for probably 2 years. The first car this suspension/damper technology was used on was the (ugly) X6 crossover a few years ago. Every platform released since has this same front suspension design to allow the use of VDM. And the reason is that it works. The upcoming '11 5-series has this suspension, and therefore, so will the M5.

 

Glad you like the M3 so much and you're entitled to your opinion about its handling, but the CTS-V is a better car though for the same money. That's just the facts, no bias to it. Open your mind and you might see it too.

 

As I said, if Mcpherson struts were so great, there's no reason BMW couldn't incorporate the VDM system into the present suspension and the same control could be attained. The change to the double wishbone suspension is an admission to the inferior design characteristics of strut suspensions. If you don't think strut suspensions are a poor design for performance cars, I suggest you go buy a book on suspension design and pay particular attention to the part about camber curves. I'm glad to see BMW come into the 21st century...competition is a good thing, we the consumers win.

 

Interesting and amusing read. The Corvette guys are as ego sensitive as the M3 guys....well almost. I have a 2008 M3 E90 (sedan). It is an awesome car that I can drive everyday and drop the kid off to school during the week. Take the fam out for dinner on the weekend. It's handling and feel are legendary. A gear head buddy of mine put it very simply..."there is no substitute for cubic inches". Seems to hold true. Mfr's vary what they do with those cubic inches but I think it stands that any engine builder/tuner can do the same (more) with more cubic inches. Some compare the M3 to Vette in 1/4 mile. While the M3 is at least impressive at that task, it's not a muscle car. The car does have some fantastic handling capabilities but does get bested by the CTS-V and Vette. There is some identity differences associated with the different vehicles. Strangely enough, my wife was not thrilled with my wanting a Corvette, she says they are old men's cars. That said, I'm here trolling the Corvette forums getting ready to pull the trigger on buying a corvette. There are some awesome deals on 2009 Z06's and they are awesome cars. But I'm leaning toward an older C6 that I can put an ECS kit on and perhaps a handling package. I want a weekend/track car that I can have some fun with and wrench on. Not that I can't have fun with the M3 as it does an awesome job on the track and I can change the tires and pull work/week duty. The M3 is expensive to mod. I went through 2 exhausts trying to find the right droneless system and have >$4500 invested. I'm a bit tired of the cost of mods. Nobody can work a BMW V8 while there are no fewer than 6 very qualified Chevy V8 machine shops in Nascar territory. I think this is a fair and accurate description of what the story is:
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201588
So forget the M3 vs. Corvette and get both there different. Rather help me decided should I do 2009 Z06 suffer depreciation and mod reluctance waiting for warranty end or get a 2005-6 C6 and get an ECS supercharger installed and a suspension kit?

 

I thought the M3 was a fantastic car and am thankful to be one of the lucky few that had the chance to own one. With that said, I got rid of it to make room for my '08 Vette. I do not think one is necessarily better than the other, only that each car does different things better. For a weekend car/toy, the Vette wins. For an every day car, I'd take the bimmer. Wish I could have them both for said uses.

I have made no comparisons between the caddy and bimmer. I'm talking about the C6 and M3 which is what this thread was supposed to be about. Like I said, I've owned both cars. But since you bring it up, here are some C&D test sheets on the M3 and CTS-V. Closer than you might think it terms of shear performance, and the BMW is clearly better in some areas.
Edit: since I can't seem to figure out how to post them, here is the vital info:
CTS-V/M3
0-60: 4.3/4.3
1/4 mile: 12.6/12.7
70-0 braking: 166 ft/147 ft
skidpad G's: .93g/.96g
weight: 4292 lbs/3630 lbs

I think it comes down to what you want in a sedan. Do you want a big muscle-sedan or a lighter sport-sedan? The final result is very close. I'm always going to take the lighter car, but that's just me. You can always add power. That is what brought me to the C6. I had a lot of choices but went for the smaller, lighter package compared with other LSx vehicles.

 

I went through the same thing, maybe I can help. If you've been reading this thread, you know that I (indirectly) picked up a C6 to replace my M3. I've always been a musclecar/V8 guy, but have mostly owned 60's GM stuff. I bought the C6 for the same reasons you are thinking of. It is a great car to modify and use as a track/weekend car. Easy and cheap to modify and make very fast.

I chose to go with an '08 Z51 manual car for several reasons. I really wanted the LS3 engine and updated TR6060 trans. These came out in 2008. They also made some steering rack improvements and interior upgrades in 2008. You can retrofit some of this stuff into an older C6, but I did not want to deal with that. The prices of the '08s really aren't all that much more than an '07 or '06. To me it was worth spending a few bucks more for all the improvements. I felt it was the best starting point for my project.

As for the Z06 vs. C6 thing, there are a few things to think about. Mainly is the cost of that LS7 engine if you modify and break it. LS2s and LS3s are much cheaper. I'm also the kind of guy who wants to modify my car, and the Z06 really doesn't leave much needed. If you want to leave the car stock, the Z06 is hard to beat. Enjoy the warranty and performance. If you want to put a blower on it and make some big power, I'd go for a regular C6.

Andy

 

It might have wider tires but it doesn't necessarily have better tires.
Tires are a huge, HUGE factor on a road race course and no offense to Goodyear or Team Corvette but the Corvettes tires (base or Z51) are clearly not the best tire for that type of duty. They are a compromise tire at best, a combination of decent (but not great) cornering ability, noise and wear...fastest lap times were NOT the sole criteria when choosing tires.
The M3's Michelins Pilots (or Continentals?) on the other hand are a stickier tire with a far shorter wear life than the Corvettes Goodyears which of course gives the M3 at least some advantage.
In other words:
Corvette = hard compound/longer lasting street tire.
M3 = softer compound/fast wearing, more 'race oriented' tire.

It is what it is and it was each manufacturer's choice to fit each car as they saw fit but since people keep trying to compare apples to oranges anyway we might as well be fair and disclose each one's advantages too.

 

I don't care what all the magazines,tv shows ( Top gear, 5th gear and motor week ) or the owners and former owners of the BMW M3 say about why you like the handling of that car. All of you say the same old thing, (control, predictability, responsiveness and driver's connection) with the car ! All you m3 loving guys have said the M3 is not faster than a C6 but it handles better, even though you now own C6's !!! Hell, BMW paid off all the magazines, tv shows and you guys, to come on this forum just to say in your opinion the M3 handles better. I believe the guy who has never driven one but can tell you more about how your car feels than you !!!

 

Because it doesn't matter how bad you get your butt kicked on the track, the most important thing is how a car feels and how it makes the owner feel.

 

I think that is one reason they now own a vettes ! All the M3 or former M3 owners including myself, all agree the vette is faster but there is something about the handling of the M3 that is really hard to explain. All I asked is go drive one and then let's us know about your opinion on the handling . Sometime track numbers does not mean every thing when it comes time to purchase a vehicle. Hell, I have a 09 Z51 now and I love it but it is not my daily driver.

 

My thoughts exactly. I would imagine that the people here who are making most of these comments have never driven an E90/92 M3.

I bought a Vette really as a replacement for my weekend hotrod, the blown LS1-powered '67 Camaro in my avatar. I wanted something a little more practical (and less valuable) that would be easy to reach my 600 RWHP goal, be light weight and have good handling.

It does everything I expected it to do, but the handling still does not match my previous M3. Sorry to those who don't want to hear that.

Andy

 

Despite your sarcasm, I think you hit the nail on the head. I spend most of my time driving my car on the street, and really do value how the car makes me feel as a whole. Like it has been said, go drive one of these cars and report back. I swear you will not be disappointed, even if it is not as "fast" as a C6.

Those who have owned/driven these cars hard understand this, those who have not do not. I guess that is what it comes down to.


Andy

 

You're correct, they have almost exactly the same performance numbers. Yet the CTS-V is 6 seconds faster at the 'Ring...the M3 driver must just be going slow so he can enjoy the handling. I prefer miserable handling so I finish the lap as fast as I can....seems to work OK for me, to each their own.

 

Actually, I have driven BMWs. I just haven't driven a new M3 which is what the question above asked. I know how BMWs drive which is more on the rough side to me and I've heard similar comments from unbiased people that test drove one. They were shocked at how terrible they rode but that's typical of German cars. I rented a VW Bug two years ago for a 350 mile trip and that car beat me to death. A Cobalt I rented the week before was like a Cadillac in comparison and got way better MPG to boot. (Plus the Bug would dump cold water on my right foot evey time I made a right turn.) I prefer the much more refined ride of the CTS-V over any BMW and the bonus is better performance on track or as a daily driver. But to each their own....that's why they make different cars, there is no one "best" car. "Ultimate Driving Machine"??? Good marketing hype but not quite or everybody would have one.

 

Predictable as usual, i said E92 M3 or even a E46 M3. Once again you've avoided the M3.
................CTS............535i
HP.............304............300
MPG.........18/27..........17/26
Fuel..........REG............PREM
Cost.......$35165.......$51250
0-60.........5.9 sec.......5.5 sec
60-0.........109 ft.........113 ft
slalom.......67 MPH.......65.3 MPH

 

So much bench racing and ego display.

The thing about the M3 is that it each generation has had that driver/car connection that is really remarkable.

the older ones had terrific feedback through the steering wheel and stock seat, the latest E90 is inevitably damped down. The C6's "Magnesteer" is also pretty limp, not much coming through there. Off the showroom floor, the M3 has much better tires and seems to handle better, while the C6 comes with runflats that don't provide the feedback and predictability that better tires do.

Yup, I sold an older M3, bought a C6 and changed tires to good non-runflat tires.

 

I HAVE driven both, i dont know e whatever, I had a 2008. It was my wifes daily for about 6 months until she decided she could just not handle it anymore, and wanted to either sell it or burn it, and i felt the same way.

The BMW is rough riding, peaky, and at best, a 45,000 car. I wanted to replace it with a CTS-V, because after we drove one, several actually, I could not think of a nicer car, with that much performance, for the money. BUT, we are thinking about having another child, so I went one step further, and got a STS-V.

My problem with this entire argument is that the BMW is just flat overpriced, and very uncomfortable to drive for daily use. the only thing it has going for it is the back seat, and if you get the 2 door, it is useless.

My Brother in law has a 2009 twin turbo335xi, and I can say that car is better in almost every way than the M i had. The car is instant power on, whenever you want it, unlike the M, and the car is very easily tunable for not much money, unlike the M. He is getting the BASE Denin package which is ust a oil cooler, a reprogram, and i think a wheel and tire change, and the car is going to make 400hp, he will have 15 grand less in it than i had in that stupid M, and i have no dought, it will beat one in every areana.

the M is overpriced, underpowered, and people that have them, are, for the most part, full of themselves beyond any corvette owner i have met.

And as far as comparing all these 1/4 mile times between the M and the cts-v, or for that matter, even a c6, as I have already stated, 99% of the activities these cars will do on the national highway system, occure from a good roll, and the only reason the cars have similer acceleration times from a dig is the fact they all are handicapped by there tires. When the pedal hits the floor from a roll, the m comes in last every time, trust me, I got my as handed to me several times..

 

MY GOD!!, i just saw this, and after seeing it, whop would even consider a M3, unless you need the shelf for a backseat

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-d...post1573046049

 

[QUOTE=craftfox;1573054337My Brother in law has a 2009 twin turbo335xi, and I can say that car is better in almost every way than the M i had. The car is instant power on, whenever you want it, unlike the M, and the car is very easily tunable for not much money, unlike the M. He is getting the BASE Denin package which is ust a oil cooler, a reprogram, and i think a wheel and tire change, and the car is going to make 400hp, he will have 15 grand less in it than i had in that stupid M, and i have no dought, it will beat one in every areana.

[/QUOTE]


I'm with you that as a pure daily driver, the 335I is probably a better car. I drove a 2007 335i sedan for 2 years, and when my ridiculously cheap lease was up, I tried the M3.

I would seriously consider picking up another 335 in the future...... That is if they ever fix all the fuel pump, turbo rattle, and high-pressure injector problems they are having. I am serious when I say they are still having major problems on a lot of cars. Most of it has to do with the direct injection system. Mine was on it's 3rd high pressure pump in 15K miles. The M3s have proven very reliable so far.


I've also driven "Dinan" tuned cars and they run good. We used to be a Dinan dealer, so I installed their parts on a regular basis. There was a good video out on the net that featured an in-depth test of a full Dinan stage 2 or 3 car vs. the M3 when it came out ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gGzq4Pyv8Q). The M3 still won every performance test and probably was not much more expensive after adding on all the Dinan stuff. Dinan stage 2 is just about $12k, and that is without wheels or tires. It had full suspension, wheels, software, exhaust, etc. Dinan is VERY proud of their products, if you catch my drift. Their software is $2k, mufflers close to the same price. It adds up fast.

 

Yeah I understand you have driven other bimmers, but the car in question is really nothing like anything else you have driven with a BMW logo on the hood. Even much different from the last generation M3. That is almost like saying "the CTS-V must be crap because my Catera was junk". I understand that company's products evolve and change, and that Cadillac is now making some good cars. I'd love to have a CTS-V in my garage, as I've said before.


I'm being 100% serious when I say you need to drive one, at least to see what all the hype is about. Drive a dual clutch coupe or sedan and I promise you will be smiling when you get back from the test drive. Are you gonna want to trade your C6 for it? Probably not, but neither would I. Still think it is an awesome car, though.

There weren't any journalists calling the previous M3 "the best car in the world", but there have been several different publications claiming that about this current one. Who knows, maybe they are all on BMW's payroll?


Andy