Cam install gone bad.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,762
Likes: 4
From: Chandler Arizona
However, let me give you one scenario that is possible:
1) The dealer does a perfect job of repairing the hydrolock damage
2) The cam install pinches the oil pickup o-ring. (I'd still like to know if a double roller timing chain was used because a double roller makes it very difficult to align the oil pick up tube causing pinched o-rings. And as I stated before, you can pinch it and it looks fine unless you use a mirror to look at the backside and it also does NOT damage the o-ring)
3) Engine is operated with very low oil pressure (15 at idle is too low) because of the pinched o-ring
4) Now that the o-ring has been removed there is absolutely no evidence left to assign true blame.
What a mess!! If a double roller chain was NOT used for this cam install then I retract this scenario. If a double roller chain was used, then the above scenario is very possible.
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,502
Likes: 82
You are right, the previous repair for the hydrolock makes it extremely difficult to assign blame.
However, let me give you one scenario that is possible:
1) The dealer does a perfect job of repairing the hydrolock damage
2) The cam install pinches the oil pickup o-ring. (I'd still like to know if a double roller timing chain was used because a double roller makes it very difficult to align the oil pick up tube causing pinched o-rings. And as I stated before, you can pinch it and it looks fine unless you use a mirror to look at the backside and it also does NOT damage the o-ring)
3) Engine is operated with very low oil pressure (15 at idle is too low) because of the pinched o-ring
4) Now that the o-ring has been removed there is absolutely no evidence left to assign true blame.
What a mess!! If a double roller chain was NOT used for this cam install then I retract this scenario. If a double roller chain was used, then the above scenario is very possible.
However, let me give you one scenario that is possible:
1) The dealer does a perfect job of repairing the hydrolock damage
2) The cam install pinches the oil pickup o-ring. (I'd still like to know if a double roller timing chain was used because a double roller makes it very difficult to align the oil pick up tube causing pinched o-rings. And as I stated before, you can pinch it and it looks fine unless you use a mirror to look at the backside and it also does NOT damage the o-ring)
3) Engine is operated with very low oil pressure (15 at idle is too low) because of the pinched o-ring
4) Now that the o-ring has been removed there is absolutely no evidence left to assign true blame.
What a mess!! If a double roller chain was NOT used for this cam install then I retract this scenario. If a double roller chain was used, then the above scenario is very possible.
"The pump did not come off the first time that we put the car together. "
Last edited by Motorhead-47; Mar 21, 2010 at 05:38 PM.
Intermediate
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
airbus who are u calling hopefully stupid. u can kiss my *** on that ****. how many engines have u fixed how many flood jobs have u corrected for insurance companies buddy. Ive lost count on my end. I have 4 insurance companies i can count on the top of my head that call me directly for work. Ive seen hydrolcked engines run for thousands of miles after repair. Just when a engine gets hydrolocked what happens. IT LOCKS. hense the name hydrolocked. get it. iwater doesnt enter pan and circulate through the oiling system. it locks. simple why would all the bearings fail. MAIN CAM ROD all bearings in one trip back to OD. answer that. All these guys protecting gek and everyone forgets it drive 2000 miles before the repair. 2000 miles big ****ing number guys. lubbock is 2 hr from odessa it drove there died on the way back after the repair. WTF if u cant see that than ur idiot thats hopefully stupid.
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 14,657
Likes: 3
St. Jude Donor '11-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16
airbus who are u calling hopefully stupid. u can kiss my *** on that ****. how many engines have u fixed how many flood jobs have u corrected for insurance companies buddy. Ive lost count on my end. I have 4 insurance companies i can count on the top of my head that call me directly for work. Ive seen hydrolcked engines run for thousands of miles after repair. Just when a engine gets hydrolocked what happens. IT LOCKS. hense the name hydrolocked. get it. iwater doesnt enter pan and circulate through the oiling system. it locks. simple why would all the bearings fail. MAIN CAM ROD all bearings in one trip back to OD. answer that. All these guys protecting gek and everyone forgets it drive 2000 miles before the repair. 2000 miles big ****ing number guys. lubbock is 2 hr from odessa it drove there died on the way back after the repair. WTF if u cant see that than ur idiot thats hopefully stupid.
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 14,657
Likes: 3
St. Jude Donor '11-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16
Sorry, I couldn't resist!
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Race Director
Joined: Aug 2008
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St. Jude Donor '11-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16
Me, I didn't take ABP's statement about being under water an attack on you or anyone else.
He was restating the obvious, that ingesting water had an affect/effect on the failure of the engine.
It caused the initial failure. That's pretty clear.
As to the ultimate failure, that has not yet been proven.
He was restating the obvious, that ingesting water had an affect/effect on the failure of the engine.
It caused the initial failure. That's pretty clear.
As to the ultimate failure, that has not yet been proven.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,578
Likes: 61
From: Austin TX
airbus who are u calling hopefully stupid. u can kiss my *** on that ****. how many engines have u fixed how many flood jobs have u corrected for insurance companies buddy. Ive lost count on my end. I have 4 insurance companies i can count on the top of my head that call me directly for work. Ive seen hydrolcked engines run for thousands of miles after repair. Just when a engine gets hydrolocked what happens. IT LOCKS. hense the name hydrolocked. get it. iwater doesnt enter pan and circulate through the oiling system. it locks. simple why would all the bearings fail. MAIN CAM ROD all bearings in one trip back to OD. answer that. All these guys protecting gek and everyone forgets it drive 2000 miles before the repair. 2000 miles big ****ing number guys. lubbock is 2 hr from odessa it drove there died on the way back after the repair. WTF if u cant see that than ur idiot thats hopefully stupid.
I don't know if you know it or not, but water cannot be compressed. Water can get by the rings during a hydrolock, besides causing unreal stress on the bearings as the piston tries to compress the fluid. If those forces can bend a connecting rod, you can bet your *** water can be forced around the rings along with compressing a bearing to failure, or in the case possibly near failure. And it doesn't take but a few seconds of water running through the bearings to cause harm. Not to mention the debri that was found in the intake track and apparently lodged in the intake valve.
The motor may not fail immediately, but to say there was no harm out of hand just proves my point.
Last edited by AirBusPilot; Mar 21, 2010 at 07:02 PM.
Intermediate
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
I was nice at first but i am not gonna be called a liar or stupid by no man. trust i dont need you to like me i have alot of people that approve of my customer service and the way i deal with my clients. I am just fed up with backwood as wannabee mechanics that **** over customers. Simple.
Intermediate
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
AIRBUS thats what locked meant. when an engine locks it locks it doesnt run for a min after water is introduced into cylinders. so you mean to tell me all these head gasket failures and intake failures should get new motors. Hell there is so much coolant/water in the oil it looks like a milkshake oh no but all these techs should replace the engine for a simple failure because water was flowing through main bearings. I am pretty sure i explaned that good enough even a lawyer can understand. U never answered my question How many have u repaired huh. most likely none. Ive seen flood jobs run just by pulling plugs if the customers lucky. answer this smart ***, why did it run so long after the ins claim. Y did it not fail than oh but it so happens that after the cam install the pressure dropped fom 40+ to 15 psi and did not make it to odessa explain that one.
Last edited by onemeanls1z28; Mar 21, 2010 at 07:12 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,578
Likes: 61
From: Austin TX
AIRBUS thats what locked meant. I am pretty sure i explaned that good enough even a lawyer can understand. U never answered my question How many have u repaired huh. most likely none. Ive seen flood jobs run just by pulling plugs if the customers lucky. answer this smart ***, why did it run so long after the ins claim. Y did it not fail than oh but it so happens that after the cam install the pressure dropped fom 40+ to 15 psi and did not make it to odessa explain that one.
Is it possible that because of the hydrolock issue that the engine could experience a drastically reduced service life? Does it have to fail instantly everytime? Obviously, it could run for awhile before having problems, couldn't it?
Is it possible that some debri ingested during the hydrolock eventually found it's way into the pressure relief valve of the oil pump later? You know how murphy's law works, is it possible that debri caused this problem right after the cam change?
Is it also possible the OP is exaggerating the miles he drove in an attempt to bolster his claim?
Lots of unknowns and different possibilities, yet you seem hell bent on telling everyone how it is and you haven't even torn into the engine yet, have you? And even if you have, what conclusive proof do you have?
Intermediate
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
as far as the mileage we have proof i have the odometer at the shop and the original reciept from chevy with out mileage. i have main bearings and rod bearings in a damn trashbag courtesy of installer. The bearings are starved but glenn is right the pickup tube was removed real fast so any evidence of wrong doing is erased except for the bearings
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,578
Likes: 61
From: Austin TX
as far as the mileage we have proof i have the odometer at the shop and the original reciept from chevy with out mileage. i have main bearings and rod bearings in a damn trashbag courtesy of installer. The bearings are starved but glenn is right the pickup tube was removed real fast so any evidence of wrong doing is erased except for the bearings
Intermediate
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
his oil pressure was 15 max and itdropped on the way to odessa urs never seized up if u read back. bearings got so hot that engine seized untill it coooled off. Yeah i bet if someone installed an internal component and then it failed after that 100 miles u wouldnt throw a bitchfit huh and y in the hell would the windage tray come apart
Last edited by onemeanls1z28; Mar 21, 2010 at 08:07 PM.
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 131
Likes: 13
From: Urbanna Va.
I have to support the idea that a cam change IS NOT rocket science. I have done several over the years.. I have to also believe that if there was an O-ring problem or a low oil pressure condition that it would of been discovered on initial start up by the shop!!
I think the dealer did a simple fix and looked no further.. And residual damage finally showed up. (must of been run hard for those 2000 miles)
The OP should of been more responsible and not driven through standing water, knowning that he had a modified intake. And the OP should of been more aware of what normal operating oil pressures are. I think the problems (hidden or known) were passed off to the cam changer...
And now the OP has just what he wants, forum wars between the repair shops.. Taking the heat off him...
I think the dealer did a simple fix and looked no further.. And residual damage finally showed up. (must of been run hard for those 2000 miles)
The OP should of been more responsible and not driven through standing water, knowning that he had a modified intake. And the OP should of been more aware of what normal operating oil pressures are. I think the problems (hidden or known) were passed off to the cam changer...
And now the OP has just what he wants, forum wars between the repair shops.. Taking the heat off him...