Old Tech vs. New
Racer
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 401
Likes: 1
From: flowery branch ga.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,359
Likes: 163
From: Concord NC
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 5,259
Likes: 16
From: Monroe Township New Jersey
St. Jude Donor '05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16
St. Jude donor in memory of jpee '14
Impressive 
Were you ever at Bristol? If so, i was there. Track was IHRA then.
Stock class was like a game back then, someone always pushing for any advantage, right or wrong. Trying to get over on the inspector. Times/Rules have changed quite a bit since.
I wondered what happened to Dick Landys car. There is another good one. Yep i remember some of the "tricks" used years back for the win.
Ah the Elephant! How were you able to run that much timing? Jetted rich? fuel?
I liked the Nash 5-speed. Used in 1 car of mine and for someones car i built.
TF 727 quicker? Auto was for me.
In the middle 70's, i was running a 74 Vega 414 cubic inch (402 + .060) big block w/ Powerglide, tube subframe with 8 point cage and 4.88 12 Bolt. Street and strip car ran low 10's @134 at Bristol. Car was scary fast.
I agree with you that Now is the good ole days.
I never would have thought years ago we would be driving the cars available today. Would have been impossible to have built these fuel-sipping missiles we have now.
The LS engines are going in about everything for the last 5 years. They just have So much advantage over the small block, many people are using them instead. Technology marches on.
Bob
Were you ever at Bristol? If so, i was there. Track was IHRA then. Stock class was like a game back then, someone always pushing for any advantage, right or wrong. Trying to get over on the inspector. Times/Rules have changed quite a bit since.
I wondered what happened to Dick Landys car. There is another good one. Yep i remember some of the "tricks" used years back for the win.
Ah the Elephant! How were you able to run that much timing? Jetted rich? fuel?
I liked the Nash 5-speed. Used in 1 car of mine and for someones car i built.
TF 727 quicker? Auto was for me.
In the middle 70's, i was running a 74 Vega 414 cubic inch (402 + .060) big block w/ Powerglide, tube subframe with 8 point cage and 4.88 12 Bolt. Street and strip car ran low 10's @134 at Bristol. Car was scary fast.
I agree with you that Now is the good ole days.
I never would have thought years ago we would be driving the cars available today. Would have been impossible to have built these fuel-sipping missiles we have now.The LS engines are going in about everything for the last 5 years. They just have So much advantage over the small block, many people are using them instead. Technology marches on.
Bob
Hey Bob
Just came back from a track day at Atco and we were having the same discussion.
We all agree technology marches on and we have been very fortunate to have Corvettes such as the C6.With regard to Landy, he would sell the bodies after the season; I think he kept the 71. Total timing for a hemi was always between 42 & 50 degrees. The problem was the big dome on the pistons, you needed a lot of timing to ignite the mixture. We always tried to run it a bit rich as we had been advised that running it lean would cook a piston.
If I remember correctly we used a mix which included aviation gas. The clutch flite was more consistent but not quicker. We all lived in Brooklyn so we ran at National Speedway most of the time however we did run at Englishtown, Atco and I think York. Scary fast is an understatement when you go from the stock classes to the gas class, stupid fast may have been a better description for that first pass
Ah a Vega I had a buddy who built one with a 350 LT1, turbo 400 trans and 4.11 12 bolt (shortened rear) the car was a beast on the street. So you car had to be one wicked ride.
Yes it is amazing how far we have come over the years
Tommy
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 16,557
Likes: 2,104
From: Peoria/Phoenix AZ
C6 of Year Finalist (performance mods) 2019
My '65 GTO 360hp bone stock ran high 13's in the days before pure stock was invented. It really sucked for cornering and stopping was a joke. After a few tweaks by Milt Schornack of Royal Pontiac fame, it got into the mid 13's. The B/S record at the time was 12.90. My friend's '64 Impala SS 425hp 427 car never hit 13's. I remember 14.0x was his best. He traded it for a '66 GTO just so he could beat me.
We got together a couple of years later and built a AHRA '52 Studebaker stocker that held the class record for a couple years. AHRA rules for stock were a lot different than NHRA. I managed a best of 11.92 @ 114 out of that 240ci 3020# car in the early '70's. It was kinda scary with the fenders flapping wildly the last 400 feet.
When bracket racing took over from the stock class structure, drag racing became one where the guy with the consistant 18 second car with a quick reaction time became king of the hill.
Flash forward 40 years and I'm driving a very comfortable car all over the country and getting 26-28 mpg, yet able to run 180+ and turn the 1/4 mi under 11 seconds.
Would I want to go back? Maybe, but only if I get to take my Vette back too.
We got together a couple of years later and built a AHRA '52 Studebaker stocker that held the class record for a couple years. AHRA rules for stock were a lot different than NHRA. I managed a best of 11.92 @ 114 out of that 240ci 3020# car in the early '70's. It was kinda scary with the fenders flapping wildly the last 400 feet.
When bracket racing took over from the stock class structure, drag racing became one where the guy with the consistant 18 second car with a quick reaction time became king of the hill.
Flash forward 40 years and I'm driving a very comfortable car all over the country and getting 26-28 mpg, yet able to run 180+ and turn the 1/4 mi under 11 seconds.
Would I want to go back? Maybe, but only if I get to take my Vette back too.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,578
Likes: 61
From: Austin TX
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,443
Likes: 7
From: Bristol raceway area
You must have had a ringer!
I ran at Bristol with my Turbo Buick from '87-'96 in the "street fights".
Bone stock 1987: 13.85@99
SOME cars i ran that i remember:
Stock Mustang 5.0: 14.60-14.80
Stock Mustang GT: 14.80-15.10
Stock C4 Vette: 15.10-15.25
Stock 88 TA 350 TPI : 15.20-15.40
Dodge Challenger 340: ('72 or '73) 14.70-14.80
My mods 1 year later: Chip, KB ram air, Pump, reg., 160* stat., punched out cat.converter: 12.65@111
Rest is history.
I ran at Bristol with my Turbo Buick from '87-'96 in the "street fights".
Bone stock 1987: 13.85@99
SOME cars i ran that i remember:
Stock Mustang 5.0: 14.60-14.80
Stock Mustang GT: 14.80-15.10
Stock C4 Vette: 15.10-15.25
Stock 88 TA 350 TPI : 15.20-15.40
Dodge Challenger 340: ('72 or '73) 14.70-14.80
My mods 1 year later: Chip, KB ram air, Pump, reg., 160* stat., punched out cat.converter: 12.65@111
Rest is history.
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,443
Likes: 7
From: Bristol raceway area
Hey Bob
Just came back from a track day at Atco and we were having the same discussion. We all agree technology marches on and we have been very fortunate to have Corvettes such as the C6.
With regard to Landy, he would sell the bodies after the season; I think he kept the 71. Total timing for a hemi was always between 42 & 50 degrees. The problem was the big dome on the pistons, you needed a lot of timing to ignite the mixture. We always tried to run it a bit rich as we had been advised that running it lean would cook a piston. If I remember correctly we used a mix which included aviation gas. The clutch flite was more consistent but not quicker.
We all lived in Brooklyn so we ran at National Speedway most of the time however we did run at Englishtown, Atco and I think York. Scary fast is an understatement when you go from the stock classes to the gas class, stupid fast may have been a better description for that first pass
Ah a Vega I had a buddy who built one with a 350 LT1, turbo 400 trans and 4.11 12 bolt (shortened rear) the car was a beast on the street. So you car had to be one wicked ride.
Yes it is amazing how far we have come over the years
Tommy
Just came back from a track day at Atco and we were having the same discussion.
We all agree technology marches on and we have been very fortunate to have Corvettes such as the C6.With regard to Landy, he would sell the bodies after the season; I think he kept the 71. Total timing for a hemi was always between 42 & 50 degrees. The problem was the big dome on the pistons, you needed a lot of timing to ignite the mixture. We always tried to run it a bit rich as we had been advised that running it lean would cook a piston.
If I remember correctly we used a mix which included aviation gas. The clutch flite was more consistent but not quicker. We all lived in Brooklyn so we ran at National Speedway most of the time however we did run at Englishtown, Atco and I think York. Scary fast is an understatement when you go from the stock classes to the gas class, stupid fast may have been a better description for that first pass
Ah a Vega I had a buddy who built one with a 350 LT1, turbo 400 trans and 4.11 12 bolt (shortened rear) the car was a beast on the street. So you car had to be one wicked ride.
Yes it is amazing how far we have come over the years
Tommy
Atco
heard a lot about it, never been there. Track would have a lot of stories to tell. Lot of Great names.Cars now Really are something, who would have guessed? Of course, it doesn't take a genius to figure it out:
3,200 lbs., body shaped like a bullet, TALL OVERDRIVE, probably close to 100% combustion efficiency, etc., BUT 430 - 638 HP. and over 20 mpg.?
Very good engineers?Knew a couple guys that ran Hemi. Loved that engine, but never got into mopar. Lot of timing, i couldn't run a big block chev on that much. Tread a fine line on mixture and timing. I used 112 race gas. Better safe than sorry.
Gas class= Stupid fast.
I heard To much power is Never enough!I have built a total of 6 small and big block vegas. I built a 4-speed Radical 327 vega gt wagon, 302 powerglide notchback for the wife, and the big block '74. Used to get stopped all the time by the cops, "you runnin a race car on the street"?
The other 3 were customers who ran quite well
Thanks for the info on Landy
Regards,
Bob
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,578
Likes: 61
From: Austin TX
You must have had a ringer!
I ran at Bristol with my Turbo Buick from '87-'96 in the "street fights".
Bone stock 1987: 13.85@99
SOME cars i ran that i remember:
Stock Mustang 5.0: 14.60-14.80
Stock Mustang GT: 14.80-15.10
Stock C4 Vette: 15.10-15.25
Stock 88 TA 350 TPI : 15.20-15.40
Dodge Challenger 340: ('72 or '73) 14.70-14.80
My mods 1 year later: Chip, KB ram air, Pump, reg., 160* stat., punched out cat.converter: 12.65@111
Rest is history.
I ran at Bristol with my Turbo Buick from '87-'96 in the "street fights".
Bone stock 1987: 13.85@99
SOME cars i ran that i remember:
Stock Mustang 5.0: 14.60-14.80
Stock Mustang GT: 14.80-15.10
Stock C4 Vette: 15.10-15.25
Stock 88 TA 350 TPI : 15.20-15.40
Dodge Challenger 340: ('72 or '73) 14.70-14.80
My mods 1 year later: Chip, KB ram air, Pump, reg., 160* stat., punched out cat.converter: 12.65@111
Rest is history.
Car and Driver tested an 85' and ran a 14.1.
Corvette Stories
The Best of Corvette for Corvette Enthusiasts
Corvette ZR1X Will Be Pacing the Indy 500, And Could Probably Race, Too!
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Corvettes Coming to Mecum Indy 2026!
Brett Foote
Top 10 C9 Corvette MUST-HAVES to Fix These C8 Generation Flaws!
Michael S. Palmer
10 Revolutionary 'Corvette Firsts' Most People Don't Know
Joe Kucinski
5 Reasons to Upgrade to an LS6-Powered Corvette; 5 Reasons to Stay LT2
Michael S. Palmer
2027 Corvette vs The World: Every C8 vs Its Closest Competitor
Joe Kucinski
10 Most Common Corvette Problems of the Last 20 Years!
Joe Kucinski
5 MOST and 5 LEAST Popular Corvette Model Years in History!
Joe Kucinski
2027 Corvette Buyer's Guide: Everything You Need to Know!
Joe Kucinski
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,443
Likes: 7
From: Bristol raceway area
I don't remember the year, it was a '84 -'87.
C4 '84 had 205 HP.
'85 had 230 Hp.
'86 had 230 Hp.
C4 '87 had 240 Hp.
'88 had 245 Hp.
I saw 1 maybe 2 early C4's break into the high 14's and I spent every weekend at the track.
Of course by the time the 92's came out with the 300 Hp. LT-1 engine, that put the Vette in a new ballgame as a serious runner.
If Car and Driver, and i don't put much stock into car and driver, shows a '85 C4 running @14.1, then i would highly question that. That time would better Many Turbo Regals. I was there. That just didn't happen.
The first few runs with my Turbo Regal were @ 14.27, 14.06, and then cooling the engine down making my personal best of 13.85.
Last edited by Rebel 1; Dec 5, 2011 at 12:07 AM.
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 160
Likes: 0
From: Spring Lake Michigan
Possible.
I don't remember the year, it was a '84 -'87.
C4 '84-85 had 205 HP.
C4 '87-88 had 230 Hp.
I saw 1 maybe 2 early C4's break into the high 14's and I spent every weekend at the track.
Of course by the time the 92's came out with the 300 Hp. LT-1 engine, that put the Vette in a new ballgame as a serious runner.
If Car and Driver, and i don't put much stock into magazines, shows a '85 C4 running @14.1, then i would highly question that. That time would better Many Turbo Regals. I was there. That just didn't happen.
The first few runs with my Turbo Regal were @ 14.27, 14.06, and then cooling the engine down making my personal best of 13.85.
I don't remember the year, it was a '84 -'87.
C4 '84-85 had 205 HP.
C4 '87-88 had 230 Hp.
I saw 1 maybe 2 early C4's break into the high 14's and I spent every weekend at the track.
Of course by the time the 92's came out with the 300 Hp. LT-1 engine, that put the Vette in a new ballgame as a serious runner.
If Car and Driver, and i don't put much stock into magazines, shows a '85 C4 running @14.1, then i would highly question that. That time would better Many Turbo Regals. I was there. That just didn't happen.
The first few runs with my Turbo Regal were @ 14.27, 14.06, and then cooling the engine down making my personal best of 13.85.
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 22,120
Likes: 1,664
From: South Carolina
60 s cars were 14 second pigs.People tend to enhance the performance of their cars when recanting old stories.ls6 chevelle s and hemi cudas were high 12s with slicks and gears and s.d trans ams were 14 flat cars.Todays cars are faster than ever thats for sure.There are no 60s or 70s cars to race z06,zr1 porsche 911 turbo or gtr.Stock vs stock its not even a fair matchup.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,061
Likes: 54
From: montreal quebec
Bull a stock regal never ran 13.85 that was the claim of one magazine at the time.I was selling G.M.cars at the time and as soon as a grand national warmed up a bit it was a dog.An 87 vette was a bonafide 13.9 to 14 flat car all day long whereas the buicks werent.A typical time for a stock G.N was 14.2 to 14.3 .sticky tires and a chip made it into a 13.8 to 13.9 car .Using higher octane gaz such as 94 we have here in montreal use to help as well.The G.N s did respond well to cold air intakes and exhaust mods.Easy to make it go low 13s but stock it was a second slower than that.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,061
Likes: 54
From: montreal quebec
Buick regals were trapping 97 mph stock no higher than that,in fact thetop end was where the vettes would catch them.I d pay lots of money to see a stock 87 g.n on stock 70 series rubber go 13.85 at 99 mph.....Bull s...
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,578
Likes: 61
From: Austin TX
Possible.
I don't remember the year, it was a '84 -'87.
C4 '84-85 had 205 HP.
C4 '87-88 had 230 Hp.
I saw 1 maybe 2 early C4's break into the high 14's and I spent every weekend at the track.
Of course by the time the 92's came out with the 300 Hp. LT-1 engine, that put the Vette in a new ballgame as a serious runner.
If Car and Driver, and i don't put much stock into magazines, shows a '85 C4 running @14.1, then i would highly question that. That time would better Many Turbo Regals. I was there. That just didn't happen.
The first few runs with my Turbo Regal were @ 14.27, 14.06, and then cooling the engine down making my personal best of 13.85.
I don't remember the year, it was a '84 -'87.
C4 '84-85 had 205 HP.
C4 '87-88 had 230 Hp.
I saw 1 maybe 2 early C4's break into the high 14's and I spent every weekend at the track.
Of course by the time the 92's came out with the 300 Hp. LT-1 engine, that put the Vette in a new ballgame as a serious runner.
If Car and Driver, and i don't put much stock into magazines, shows a '85 C4 running @14.1, then i would highly question that. That time would better Many Turbo Regals. I was there. That just didn't happen.
The first few runs with my Turbo Regal were @ 14.27, 14.06, and then cooling the engine down making my personal best of 13.85.
My 85' was no faster than my friends that had the same cars. I remember racing a turbo regal from a roll race and I pulled him slightly, but I can't remember the speeds, but the gap did widen the faster we went.
If someone was running a 15 second 1/4 mi in an 85', they didn't know how to drive. Even my 79' TA ran a high 14.
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,443
Likes: 7
From: Bristol raceway area
Bull a stock regal never ran 13.85 that was the claim of one magazine at the time.I was selling G.M.cars at the time and as soon as a grand national warmed up a bit it was a dog.An 87 vette was a bonafide 13.9 to 14 flat car all day long whereas the buicks werent.A typical time for a stock G.N was 14.2 to 14.3 .sticky tires and a chip made it into a 13.8 to 13.9 car .Using higher octane gaz such as 94 we have here in montreal use to help as well.The G.N s did respond well to cold air intakes and exhaust mods.Easy to make it go low 13s but stock it was a second slower than that.
There were many people at the time that ran Turbo Regals in the high 13's stock COLD. Several mags did make and post runs in the 13's. GM made 13 second runs with these cars in Michigan. The facts are there if you look instead of guessing and speculating.
I love Vettes but I Never saw one Stock 84-88 Vette Ever run a 13.9-14 sec. and i was at the track Every weekend.
It might have helped if you had actually gone to a track.
Read my earlier post and you will see what stock cars ran in 1987 when i was there.
Last edited by Rebel 1; Dec 4, 2011 at 04:55 AM.
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,443
Likes: 7
From: Bristol raceway area
Lots of Money? You probably couldn't fill up a gas tank
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,443
Likes: 7
From: Bristol raceway area
Actually, the 85' had the new TPI 230 hp and a hefty 330 ft/lbs torque. That was bumped to 240hp/345 tq in 87', 245hp in 88' and 250hp by 1990.
My 85' was no faster than my friends that had the same cars. I remember racing a turbo regal from a roll race and I pulled him slightly, but I can't remember the speeds, but the gap did widen the faster we went.
If someone was running a 15 second 1/4 mi in an 85', they didn't know how to drive. Even my 79' TA ran a high 14.
My 85' was no faster than my friends that had the same cars. I remember racing a turbo regal from a roll race and I pulled him slightly, but I can't remember the speeds, but the gap did widen the faster we went.
If someone was running a 15 second 1/4 mi in an 85', they didn't know how to drive. Even my 79' TA ran a high 14.
Chevrolet Corvette engine:
1984 - 205 HP. 290 TORQUE
1985 - 230 HP. 330 TORQUE
1986- 230HP. 330 TORQUE
1987-240 Hp.
1988-245 Hp.
I was at the track and beat them. I know what they ran because i was there.
Last edited by Rebel 1; Dec 5, 2011 at 12:00 AM. Reason: corrected several HP. figures
100% correct
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,443
Likes: 7
From: Bristol raceway area
60 s cars were 14 second pigs.People tend to enhance the performance of their cars when recanting old stories.ls6 chevelle s and hemi cudas were high 12s with slicks and gears and s.d trans ams were 14 flat cars.Todays cars are faster than ever thats for sure.There are no 60s or 70s cars to race z06,zr1 porsche 911 turbo or gtr.Stock vs stock its not even a fair matchup.
'73-74 Pont.TA SD 455 is a legit mid 13 sec. car. Check the FACTS before spouting off and showing your ignorance.
Go to www.purestockdrags.com. They are running MID 12's with Stock Size Tires.
Be informed instead of throwing out a lot of bogus numbers and "recanting old stories".
Stock for stock? Nobody brought it up but YOU.
Pro
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 512
Likes: 0
From: Houston Texas
Modern cars vs 60's muscle cars: There is NO comparison when it comes to braking, handling, fuel ecomomy, top speed or power. The only thing old school muscle had going for it is looks and that is purely subjective. Most modern family passenger sedans are far superior to 60's muscle in any performance related category. 10.10 @ 132 is far from stock, don't fool yourself old timer. Nostalgia is nice, but reality is sometimes harsh.
Last edited by COVERT GUY; Dec 4, 2011 at 08:37 AM.