1analguy TOTALLY gets what I'm saying.

Well, we don't HAVE to use calculators, do we? Or rather, we don't have to put it in our pocket every time we want to do some math, do we?

No, I dont use ABS on the track either. I know the limit just before ABS kicks in (which BTW is the fastest way to stop). Guys who just slam on the brakes before each corner and are all in the ABS are the same guys that will love rev matching because.. they dont have the ability or effort level to learn how to drive the car fast without the aids. Perhaps they are just ignorant. I personally parallel it to cheating and unfair to people who put the effort and time in to learn how to drive fast properly.

Now, I'm not saying that ABS doesn't have its place on a street car. In inclement weather, or during a panic stop, ABS is a great feature, but unlike the rev match, I will only see ABS under an extreme case of braking - I wont see it every time I hit the brake pedal. I will however see rev match every time I shift gears. But, I will digress and agree that there may be one situation where, like ABS, rev matching could be useful and improve safety. If a driver went to too low a gear, during a corner, and if engine braking would be calculated to be strong enough such that it created a situation where the back end would come around uncontrollably or unexpectedly, perhaps that would be the only time I could see rationalizing rev matching being on by default.

For all other times, I am vehemently against rev matching because it will negatively impact the way I drive the car. Anyone that knows how to heel-toe or rev match by themselves when downshifting will find this feature annoying because its taking driver involvement out of the equation. The entire reason a sports car enthusiast buys a car like this is to feel "as one" and as integral as possible. Learning how to rev match or heel-toe on your own is one of the things that makes sports car driving fun and everyone should do it. I'm not a garage queen, I'm not a drag strip yahoo, I'm a guy that really understands vehicle dynamics and car control and likes to be able to fully control his car (on and off track) - all on my own, without a nanny, and have fun doing it.

For me, rev match = less fun.

I obviously realize I can hit a button to turn it off, but that is annoying, and frankly, insulting on a car like this to have to do that every time I start the car. I mostly write to express my discontent so GM realizes how people that actually know how to drive their cars feel about this feature, especially if it is to be on by default. Now this is something the Europeans can laugh at us for!

[insert German voice here] "Zee Americans dunt know how to drive zer cars, and use zeh rev matchung..hahg hahg hahg! "

 

If I happen to enjoy doing long-hand arithmetic (I have met people who do), I only have to put my calculator in the drawer once and it will stay there. Apparently, you'll only be happy if I have to put it back in the drawer every time I sit down at my desk to do arithmetic...

Lame analogies, one and all. My point was, for those few of us who rarely track our cars, who will probably never worry about how to shave a couple of hundredths of a second from our lap times, who enjoy manually executing well matched down-shifts, or who just drive them for (non-racing) enjoyment...we'd rather be able to disable ARM once, and then be done with it.

I can see where ARM might ease your load on a race track, and I'm glad it's available for those who really need it...though if you have trouble shifting, I don't see why you wouldn't just prefer the already-available automatic transmission. Then you could keep both hands on the steering wheel and one foot on each of the remaining pedals. With fewer pedals and levers to distract you it would sure make it easier for you to concentrate on your line, your braking, or whatever else may be overloading your abilities...

We might be in the minority, but don't dump on us just because we value finesse over excess...

Update: the February/March issue of Road & Track confirms that, in order to defeat ARM, we will have to "flick a switch" each time we start our cars. Also, the on-stage female "representative" at the Detroit show seemed absolutely thrilled when she confirmed that, yes, you will need to turn off the ARM with a switch. Great planning, GM...

 

So do you find yourself being overtaken in a turn by someone trail braking w/ABS while you are flat spotting one of the tires as you unload one of the corners of your car trying to keep up? ABS is not just for going deep while keeping each side of the car equally loaded before turn in. Personally, I don't enjoy flat spotting $1500 tires.

I don't use A/H but I do enjoy ABS.

 

Everyone should know how to do arithmetic with pen and paper before they are allowed to use a calculator.

 

No, actually, I'm the one trail braking pass others. I was class champion of my club in street stock in my c5z06. I never disabled ABS, I dont know if its even possible, I just braked such that it did not engage. The point just before ABS engages is the quickest way to stop.

1analguy - See I knew they'd do that.. make you hit the button. STUPID GM!

 

Everyone that has used it has said it is awesome. You guys who want to walk uphill both ways to school can simply turn it off. Not a big deal.

 

I had a thought about this as well.

If the car knows what gear you are in, is it possible they would incorporate a remote starting feature into the manual?

I know you are supposed to park a manual in gear with the E-Brake on, but it would be nice to be able to remote start it. My driveway is perfectly level (sometimes I leave it in neutral and use the parking brake only), and I use the remote start in my other cars often.

Flame suit on.

 

Its a very big deal, because you cant untangle all that mess. A sportscar should durable, reliable and easy to repair for decades. It should also be very simple. If some feel that active handling, rev matching etc should be options, the owner should be able to set them simply, each completely individually, and one time only and never have to deal with it again. The vehicle should never, ever, ever make judgements against the owner. Every function of the car should absolutely 100% always infallably do exactly what the owner commands. If i want the throttle open the throttle should be open. If i want the handbrake on x%, it should be on X% until i turn it off. If i want the diff working, it should be engaged. Its really that simple. And the c6 and looks like the c7 are so far from that that you may as well be buying an extra bitchy expensive wife, that wont do what you want and bitches at you the whole time.

 

So what proof do you have that it is not durable, reliable or easy to repair?

Did you build it?

Have you tested it?

Are you an expert transmission or vehicle dynamics engineer with 1000's of hours of research on what works and what doesnt?

 

This definition of a sports car leaves out some of my favorites, like Ferrari, Lamborghini, and Porsche. In fact I can't think of any sports cars that do fit this definition currently.

 

hmmm... interesting.

I've had remote start in my last 3-4 daily drivers. Sure beats scraping the windshield when it's 10 degrees outside.

point.

I can't imagine that Rev Match is not driver selectable; but GM has done stupid things in the past...

 

I think it is a cool feature personally. I've been through the lessons at Spring Mountain and other places several times and I flat cannot do it. Not for lacking of trying either, but the motion to do heel/toe is totally spastic to me.

 

I agree, a step towards the PS3 GTR generation...

 

Like a player piano? No...

I think this post is an elitist post. I've been driving manuals for a while too and I don't like driving autos. But saying that you simply have to drive like a pro if you want to own a manual is pretty elitist in my honest opinion. I rev-match my C5Z when ever I drive. And I don't just rev-match down shifts. I also rev-match up shifts. I've gotten pretty good at it in my car. And blipping the throttle isn't hard, btw. Any car you're in you can learn to properly blip the throttle in a 10 minutes.

I've driven the 370z with rev-matching and it's actually quite great. I was definitely happy with the idea that if I'm stuck in traffic and I don't want to rev-match all the time and I still want to save the life of the syncros I could simply turn on rev-matching and call it a day.

Auto rev-matching saves the engine and drivetrain a lot of stress. In general, the life and maintenance of the car will be better.

 

I'll welcome computer rev-matching with open arms when the sequential transmission is an option.

Jay

 

My first thought was the life of the trans and clutch...good job!

 

OK, lets try it this way. Suppose that on the new C7, each and every time you start the car, the seat heaters automatically come on full blast...even in the summer (when you don't need/want them). You can still turn them off if you want, so who cares, right? Not a big deal...

So do I (for those who want/need it), but the rest of us shouldn't have to fight with it every time we start our cars, should we? Really? How tough of a concept is this anyway?

I'll try just one more time to say this: I'm freaking thrilled that GM has provided ARM on the C7 for all those who would like to use it (woohoo). However, since there appears to be at least a sizable minority of prospective owners out here who will not want to make use of it, GM probably should have provided a permanent way for them to disable it. Otherwise, this joyous blessing from the General actually ends up becoming a very real P.I.T.A. to many of the car's owners.

Tadge Juechter recently commented that one of their goals in C7 development was to keep the car from getting in the way of its driver's enjoyment, and that it "will eschew performance Band-Aids or gadgetry". His method of delivering ARM is a simple, definite failure in this regard...

 

Oh, I got you. I misunderstood your statements about the use of ABS. Usually I find the only times it kicks in with great authority is when I am on really cold track, cold tires, worn out, or greasy, or street tires. There is the occasional track debris patch that can make it go crazy.
If you really want to see how well it works, drive a non-abs car for a hot session. You may be surprised.

 

Out of all the blithering you've been doing in this thread this is probably the most laughable. Trust me: you can not outbrake your car's ABS by thresholding on the track. You're not good enough. Nor do you have 4 feet and 4 brake pedals to use.

jas