Originally Posted by usroute66 MKW

There is only ONE competitor in terms of price similarity and sports car steet cred : the C7 for the best drag strip and probably track day times and then there is this one if you spend most of your time in the twisties like we have here in the forests and coast of Northern California :

http://www.dpccars.com/car-videos-13...man-review.htm

Originally Posted by skank

Sorry, the Cayman is not even on the radar screen. The 911 has always been a formidable foe especially in the top models. The Corvette's are just too much for Porsche to deal with on the tracks. Remember, the ZR1 is 3.1 seconds faster than a GT3 RS around Laguna Seca and 7.94 seconds faster than a Cayman R. Thats just domination. And the new C7 will handle even better plus have the visual impact of a Ferrari or Lambo.

Originally Posted by usroute66 MKW

Having owned 5 911 s incl recent Turbo as well as the first Z 51 six speed in Norcal in March 1997, I no longer have any interest in internet bench racing or published track times, I am at my age more interested in getting to point B in something that is carefree and zingy , the hell with a stopwatch. problem with the Cayman is that it is a closed car, and I don 't like the current Boxster S, and the inevitable 981 Boxter S Spyder like model will be yrs away

Originally Posted by skank

GM bought a 911-991 for Corvette to test against. I think Porsche does great cars but it will be very interesting when the car mags start comparing. The C7 Z51 is supposedly as fast around VIR as the C6 ZO6 so it will be a real performer yet also a docile DD with incredible fuel mileage.

Originally Posted by DaveFerrari458

You have no clue what you're talking about!!! Obviously you don't like the C7 but don't make ignorant comments.

In fact I see that most of your posts are negative in general towards everything. You seem to be suffering from depression or just a major Debbie Downer!!

Originally Posted by Guibo

I'm not discussing ergonomics as the C6 tends to be rated close enough on that front. In regards to lateral support and the flimsiness of things like the seatbacks, the seat base, and even the seat adjustment lever, it is slagged for that far more often than I've seen the M3; owners have mentioned such issues in these very forums. Then there are the detail items, like the fitment of panels, the quality of the switchgear, especially the various console *****. Go look at the manual adjustment levers on the BMWs vs the C6 to get an idea of not just the design that makes the German one more attractive, but you also get an idea of the robustness behind it. Then there are the design issues that make the C6 interior less attractive overall, like the huge one-piece slab of plastic that makes up the center console. The C7 improves on this drastically, breaking up that gigantic slab into smaller pieces, and provides real CF, none of that obviously fake stuff masquerading as CF. The quality of the ***** and switchgear have taken a step up too.
Coming from Draexlmaier helps (I don't think the C6 interior came from them), but anyone with eyes would know there's a difference in quality from a Bugatti to a CTS. Hell, there's a huge difference between a Bugatti and an Audi A3 and those both come from VW/Audi Group. Building standards are not determined only by the supplier. But I was not talking only about build standards to the exclusion of other factors, like design, or levels of customization.
BMW guys have already acknowledged they are in relatively slower cars (and also faster than other cars). Do they really care? Doesn't appear to be so, not with BMW setting a sales record last year (up 10.6% despite markets in Europe tanking and China's contraction). Plenty of M3s and Z4s out there optioned to well beyond C6 prices. I'd wager there are even way more 335i convertibles out there that are optioned into M3 price ranges.

Originally Posted by DaveFerrari458

You have no clue what you're talking about!!! Obviously you don't like the C7 but don't make ignorant comments.

In fact I see that most of your posts are negative in general towards everything. You seem to be suffering from depression or just a major Debbie Downer!!

Originally Posted by Telepierre

Hi Guibo - It has been a while.. and I just missed your "educated" comments so MUCH!

SO



Oh yes Guibo..there is so much slagging of the C6 versus the M3..

Care to mention that there are 214000 C6 Corvettes out there (mostly US versus 19K M3s (mostly US) out there?

Could it just be that the C6 is talked and forum-ed (and sniped) much more about than the all mighty and prestigious and poor selling M3?

Could it just be?...

Originally Posted by Telepierre

Hi Guibo - It has been a while.. and I just missed your "educated" comments so MUCH!

SO

Oh yes Guibo..there is so much slagging of the C6 versus the M3..

Care to mention that there are 214000 C6 Corvettes out there (mostly US versus 19K M3s (mostly US) out there?

Could it just be that the C6 is talked and forum-ed (and sniped) much more about than the all mighty and prestigious and poor selling M3?

Could it just be?...

Originally Posted by Guibo

I said there is slagging of the C6 versus the M3 with regard to interior design and seats. Learn to keep things in perspective. Like this:
How many M3s were sold with massive discounts like the C6? Factory holdbacks (haha)? Customer loyalty rebates? Like I said, there are probably quite a few 335i's optioned well up into Corvette/M3 price ranges.
I don't know where you got your 19k M3s (mostly US) from. When C&D did its M3 overview in 2010, there had by at time already been 39,600 M3s produced.

And I never said the M3 is perfect and the only choice. At that price range, there are plenty of very close direct competitors to choose from. AMG stepped up its game big time with the C63. Audi offers arguably an even nicer interior, plus AWD utility with the RS4. A certified pre-owned 997 was probably not far off in terms of price (but offers significant advantage over an M3 in terms of bespoke bodystyle, much sleeker design, level of cachet one rung up, better steering feel and involvement, etc, and much of that applies to the Boxster/Cayman). And as mentioned, one could buy a very well-equipped 335i for the price of an M3.

Anyhow, here's what R&T observed in its C7 preview:
"Current estimates lift the base Stingray to roughly $56,000, about $5000 more than the basic 2013 coupe. That price still represents a healthy value: dead atop a V-6-powered Mercedes-Benz SLK350 or the crude-and-crusty Ford Shelby GT500. It's also $5000 less than a Porsche Boxster S and $27,000 less than a 911 Carrera, which has 100 fewer horses.
Corvette insiders are first to admit that few people actually cross-shop European sports cars with the Corvette."

In those rare instances that someone is choosing between the C6 and the M3, some of those reasons for choosing a Porsche over the BMW also apply to the Corvette: sleek design, a more bespoke bodystyle for the price. For those few who care, yes, performance is a consideration. But you can't claim that people generally choose the Corvette because of the interior quality, design, and seats. It could be that they choose the Corvette in spite of those things.

Originally Posted by jkcam6017

Zonda, Veyron, Miata.

Originally Posted by DaveFerrari458

You need to stop believing everything you read in car magazines. And you need to realize that there is absolutely nothing special about the M3's interior. Overall car is pretty nice but imo definitely not worth it and waaaaay overpriced. As much as I dislike Porsche's I would much rather have a Cayman S or better yet an Audi A5.
But none of those cars come close to everything you get in a Corvette. Price aside the car is in a much higher level more inline with a 911.

Originally Posted by Joe aka - KODAK

GM designers have their head in the clouds, instead of designing a car as it's own, they consistantly try adding parts of other cars or out right copying designs to make the look. I guess it takes less time to copy something then make it it's own! Hell, they only had 7 years! Yes, no matter what they will always be someone that doesn't like it - OK.

The smarter of the 3 on Top Gear, said it best "GM, always gets close, but falls short at the end. It wouldn't take that much more effort to make the Corvette a true supercar, but history and GM have shown it won't happen."

It's the little things that could but won't be improved, but GM's attitude seems to be "take it or leave it."

I've seen threads wondering if GM is listen to the people on the forum that buy their cars, I don't think so, to many egos and Union BS @ GM.

I like the basic concept of the C7, but not the finished product, that isn't even finished yet. I surely WOULD NOT BUY THE BASE MODEL!

Originally Posted by Guibo

I don't base that all on car magazines. Though if you want to be serious, even Corvette owners in Corvette magazines have criticized the C6's seats. I've sat in both cars to make my own conclusions, and they agree pretty much with what goes on outside of Corvette forums. And even within these forums, when furrin' cars aren't being thrown under the Corvette in all categories, plenty of Corvette owners themselves have complained about the seats.
In the M3's class, the M3 is not special. But it looks befitting a $60k car, whereas the C6's interior has been compared to cars costing half as much (and not in a complimentary manner). If someone wants to claim the C6's interior is better, then that's his prerogative. But he should also know that that is not a sentiment largely shared outside of these forums.
I'm sure if the M3 were really overpriced, BMW would have made a downward price adjustment. You don't get the net profits they do, and stay in business that long, by selling overpriced products.

Originally Posted by Guibo

I don't base that all on car magazines. Though if you want to be serious, even Corvette owners in Corvette magazines have criticized the C6's seats. I've sat in both cars to make my own conclusions, and they agree pretty much with what goes on outside of Corvette forums. And even within these forums, when furrin' cars aren't being thrown under the Corvette in all categories, plenty of Corvette owners themselves have complained about the seats.
In the M3's class, the M3 is not special. But it looks befitting a $60k car, whereas the C6's interior has been compared to cars costing half as much (and not in a complimentary manner). If someone wants to claim the C6's interior is better, then that's his prerogative. But he should also know that that is not a sentiment largely shared outside of these forums.
I'm sure if the M3 were really overpriced, BMW would have made a downward price adjustment. You don't get the net profits they do, and stay in business that long, by selling overpriced products.