Base dyno pull/aFe install
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2005
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From: Big Bend Country, TX
St. Jude Donor '06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15- '16-'17-‘18-‘19-'20-'21
NCM Lifetime Member
It is really sad that tuning the car would toast the power train coverage. I would really like to turn Matt loose on it.
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 10,709
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From: Fulshear, TX
You could always use a Diablo InTune handheld + DiabLew custom tuning like I've done. Supposedly it's untraceable once flashed back to stock. Thus far I haven't been hassled about it on my Vette or Cruze by the dealer. I'd do the Volt too if I could 
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 29,113
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From: Big Bend Country, TX
St. Jude Donor '06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15- '16-'17-‘18-‘19-'20-'21
NCM Lifetime Member
I'd have to ask Matt on that one. I'm really not wanting to tempt fate.
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,941
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From: Northern Virginia
The tune isn't detectable. But the fact that the ECU has been flashed is very much detectable, and if there is a drivetrain problem, and if GM detects the flash count is off, then they could refuse to honor a warranty claim.
And GM is checking the ECU for any significant engine / drivetrain issues:
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...6-04-026h.html
Doesn't automatically mean your warranty claim will be denied, and you can always fight them, but there is certainly greater risk there.
And GM is checking the ECU for any significant engine / drivetrain issues:
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...6-04-026h.html
Doesn't automatically mean your warranty claim will be denied, and you can always fight them, but there is certainly greater risk there.
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,425
Likes: 238
From: Macomb MI
The tune isn't detectable. But the fact that the ECU has been flashed is very much detectable, and if there is a drivetrain problem, and if GM detects the flash count is off, then they could refuse to honor a warranty claim.
And GM is checking the ECU for any significant engine / drivetrain issues:
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...6-04-026h.html
Doesn't automatically mean your warranty claim will be denied, and you can always fight them, but there is certainly greater risk there.
And GM is checking the ECU for any significant engine / drivetrain issues:
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...6-04-026h.html
Doesn't automatically mean your warranty claim will be denied, and you can always fight them, but there is certainly greater risk there.
In all the threads and all the discussions, there is one piece of anecdotal evidence that seems to lean pretty heavily in favor of the DS claims of "laving no trace" when returned to stock. The CF member "seannyc" had an engine failure unrelated to his DS tune. He restored the original backup, his ECU was sent to GM for analysis, they found nothing amiss, and the engine was replaced under warranty.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1590224860
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1590260541
Not trying to be a DS cheerleader. Yes, I was pleased overall using a Trinity on my '14 C7 even though my HP gains were minuscule, and the DiabLew custom tunes through the tool seem well-liked by many. Certainly not trying to stir up the philosophical aspects of post-tuning warranty claims that most "tuning" threads degenerate into. Just wanting to provide additional info to the mix to help flesh out the complete picture for those interested.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 29,113
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From: Big Bend Country, TX
St. Jude Donor '06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15- '16-'17-‘18-‘19-'20-'21
NCM Lifetime Member
xp800, I just burned through a lg DiGiorno supreme pizza and a 6 pk of Miller Light reading through the entire tech thread you posted a link to .............
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,425
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From: Macomb MI
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Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 29,113
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From: Big Bend Country, TX
St. Jude Donor '06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15- '16-'17-‘18-‘19-'20-'21
NCM Lifetime Member
On a more serious note, I do need to ask Matt about tuning the car. Geezzzz ......... This is worse that a dose of the clap. The need for more hp/torque never goes away. 
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 5,471
Likes: 717
From: Black Forest CO
That's how my C5 ended up so modified. I am still only doing minor stuff on the C7. I expect that will change over time...
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,941
Likes: 499
From: Northern Virginia
Yeah, I've read all the threads. But I don't think I've ever seen Diablo claim that their flash doesn't trip the flash counter. The seannyc thread is encouraging, but a sample size of one may not mean a lot.
Whatever, though, I think if someone is really worried about losing warranty coverage, it's probably better to avoid any tune. If one is willing to take some risk, then I agree the Diablo is probably the least risky of the tuning options.
Whatever, though, I think if someone is really worried about losing warranty coverage, it's probably better to avoid any tune. If one is willing to take some risk, then I agree the Diablo is probably the least risky of the tuning options.
Not debating you here meyerweb... I think this is certainly the case with the PC based tuning programs. The DiabloSport handhelds mentioned by Kracka are able to accomplish "stealth" somehow and are therefore not the same. This is an oft discussed topic to be sure. And the DiabloSport "exception" tends to be the most heated when it comes up. I'm sure there are 20+ DS threads at least.
In all the threads and all the discussions, there is one piece of anecdotal evidence that seems to lean pretty heavily in favor of the DS claims of "laving no trace" when returned to stock. The CF member "seannyc" had an engine failure unrelated to his DS tune. He restored the original backup, his ECU was sent to GM for analysis, they found nothing amiss, and the engine was replaced under warranty.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1590224860
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1590260541
Not trying to be a DS cheerleader. Yes, I was pleased overall using a Trinity on my '14 C7 even though my HP gains were minuscule, and the DiabLew custom tunes through the tool seem well-liked by many. Certainly not trying to stir up the philosophical aspects of post-tuning warranty claims that most "tuning" threads degenerate into. Just wanting to provide additional info to the mix to help flesh out the complete picture for those interested.
In all the threads and all the discussions, there is one piece of anecdotal evidence that seems to lean pretty heavily in favor of the DS claims of "laving no trace" when returned to stock. The CF member "seannyc" had an engine failure unrelated to his DS tune. He restored the original backup, his ECU was sent to GM for analysis, they found nothing amiss, and the engine was replaced under warranty.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1590224860
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1590260541
Not trying to be a DS cheerleader. Yes, I was pleased overall using a Trinity on my '14 C7 even though my HP gains were minuscule, and the DiabLew custom tunes through the tool seem well-liked by many. Certainly not trying to stir up the philosophical aspects of post-tuning warranty claims that most "tuning" threads degenerate into. Just wanting to provide additional info to the mix to help flesh out the complete picture for those interested.
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 10,709
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From: Fulshear, TX
Mike from Diablo has mentioned a few times on this board that their tunes, once uninstalled, are invisible to the dealer/GM. Something about not triggering the flash counter, leaving no trace in the CVN...something like that. You are correct though, if you want to be 100% risk-free, leave the car bone stock, any modification can be a gamble.
*edit*
I found one post here with just a quick Google search:
*edit*
I found one post here with just a quick Google search:
Just to clarify, there is nothing new in the C7 as far as GMs ability to detect tunes that hasn't been in place for years and years on all NBS trucks, CTSVs, C6's, Camaros, you name it.
Don't limit yourself to asking just C7 guys, we have 1000s and 1000s of customers who have been to the dealer after using our device on GM vehicles equipped with a PCM that records CVNs, and you will not find one in those markets either
I'm not sure what you mean by no mention of other methods claimed to be available to the dealer. If you search my posts, I have shared more info on the GM CVN procedure than anyone else I have seen on this forum. That is how that detect tunes. It is the only way. We are not detectable by it.
In another thread here, a random forum member who I do not know, and who openly stated he is not a fan of our tunes, did say he verified with a tech2 that flashing with one of our devices did not affect the CVN and left no trace of us having been there. I'll dig that up for you when I am back in the office Wednesday if you'd like.
Thanks
Don't limit yourself to asking just C7 guys, we have 1000s and 1000s of customers who have been to the dealer after using our device on GM vehicles equipped with a PCM that records CVNs, and you will not find one in those markets either
I'm not sure what you mean by no mention of other methods claimed to be available to the dealer. If you search my posts, I have shared more info on the GM CVN procedure than anyone else I have seen on this forum. That is how that detect tunes. It is the only way. We are not detectable by it.
In another thread here, a random forum member who I do not know, and who openly stated he is not a fan of our tunes, did say he verified with a tech2 that flashing with one of our devices did not affect the CVN and left no trace of us having been there. I'll dig that up for you when I am back in the office Wednesday if you'd like.
Thanks
Last edited by Kracka; Jan 22, 2016 at 08:36 AM.
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,941
Likes: 499
From: Northern Virginia
Mike from Diablo has mentioned a few times on this board that their tunes, once uninstalled, are invisible to the dealer/GM. Something about not triggering the flash counter, leaving no trace in the CVN...something like that. You are correct though, if you want to be 100% risk-free, leave the car bone stock, any modification can be a gamble.
*edit*
I found one post here with just a quick Google search:
*edit*
I found one post here with just a quick Google search:
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 29,113
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From: Big Bend Country, TX
St. Jude Donor '06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15- '16-'17-‘18-‘19-'20-'21
NCM Lifetime Member
Had a talk with Matt today. Based on our discussion, if i'm going to lay out that kind of money, I want a custom tune. No ifs, ands, or buts. Either way, imho, one is rolling the dice.
Supporting Vendor
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,143
Likes: 169
From: Central Florida
Not trying to argue, just be precise. The CVN is, I believe, the checksum of the ECU code itself, which isn't the same as the flash counter, which simply indicates that something was updated. Even flashing the stock tune would update the flash counter. GM keeps track of dealer flashes, and (the argument goes), if the dealer flash count is different than the actual recorded on the chip itself, "you've got some 'splainin' to do."
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,941
Likes: 499
From: Northern Virginia
Not going to get into a debate, but the dealer doesn't decide whether to pull the ECU for review, GM does. And GM has instructed its dealers to do so on any engine warranty claim. And GM can, clearly, read the flash count, which is totally different than the CVN. No one argues that you're tune doesn't change the CVN. But to continue to deny that GM can tell how many times the ECU has been flashed, and knows how many times it was flashed by a GM dealer, calls your motivation into question.
Read the GM document at the following link, please, and tell me how the dealer isn't going to do anything because the CVN hasn't changed:
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...6-04-026h.html
Here, I'll help:
In simple English, if there are more ECU flashes than GM has a record of, the dealer is required to notify GM's TACC. Will you state categorically that your tunes do not increment the ECU flash counter, and the dealer can't see that there have been multiple "calibration events?"
Read the GM document at the following link, please, and tell me how the dealer isn't going to do anything because the CVN hasn't changed:
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...6-04-026h.html
Here, I'll help:
•Be advised that GM REQUIRES retrieving the
Calibration Information and performing the
Calibration Verification Procedure as outlined
in this Bulletin, whenever diagnostics
determine a hard part failure may have
occurred on internal engine parts and BEFORE
disassembly, repair or replacement of an
engine assembly under warranty.
Calibration Information and performing the
Calibration Verification Procedure as outlined
in this Bulletin, whenever diagnostics
determine a hard part failure may have
occurred on internal engine parts and BEFORE
disassembly, repair or replacement of an
engine assembly under warranty.
6. Retrieving Calibration Information
From Global A Vehicles Using GDS 2 -
This Action is Required for ALL Service
Agents (Model Dependent)
Select: Calibration History from the drop down
menu in order to display the following items on the
screen, including the VIN:
• Calibration History Buffer
• Number of Calibration History Events Stored
• Calibration Part Number History
• Calibration Verification Number History
14. Select: Save Report.
15. Select: Print.
From Global A Vehicles Using GDS 2 -
This Action is Required for ALL Service
Agents (Model Dependent)
Select: Calibration History from the drop down
menu in order to display the following items on the
screen, including the VIN:
• Calibration History Buffer
• Number of Calibration History Events Stored
• Calibration Part Number History
• Calibration Verification Number History
14. Select: Save Report.
15. Select: Print.
2. After retrieving the Calibration Information and
performing Section: 8. Calibration Verification
Procedure — For Service Agents NOT
REQUIRED to Call PQC for Powertrain/
Drivetrain Assembly Replacement
Authorization — Using the Tech 2® or GDS 2
the Service Department Personnel is required to
retain all of the related documentation showing the
procedures were completed in the Service Agent
Vehicle History Service File.
⇒ If the Calibration Verification Procedure
determines that THERE ARE non-GM ECM
calibrations present, the Service Department
Personnel MUST follow the procedure as
instructed in: Section 10. Procedure for All
Service Agents for E-mailing .jpg or .jpeg
Files to the Calibration Group at —
TACCVN@gmexpert.com
performing Section: 8. Calibration Verification
Procedure — For Service Agents NOT
REQUIRED to Call PQC for Powertrain/
Drivetrain Assembly Replacement
Authorization — Using the Tech 2® or GDS 2
the Service Department Personnel is required to
retain all of the related documentation showing the
procedures were completed in the Service Agent
Vehicle History Service File.
⇒ If the Calibration Verification Procedure
determines that THERE ARE non-GM ECM
calibrations present, the Service Department
Personnel MUST follow the procedure as
instructed in: Section 10. Procedure for All
Service Agents for E-mailing .jpg or .jpeg
Files to the Calibration Group at —
TACCVN@gmexpert.com
Last edited by meyerweb; Jan 26, 2016 at 11:45 AM.
Supporting Vendor
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,143
Likes: 169
From: Central Florida
You are making it sound the way you want, and thats fine. I read what you posted and see nothing stating what you say to be fact, more like interpretation.
Either way, its up to the end user whether they decide to tune the car or not, and thankfully you are here looking out for them
If they want to tune it and keep the dealer out of their hair, we offer a great product for that.
Thanks
Either way, its up to the end user whether they decide to tune the car or not, and thankfully you are here looking out for them
If they want to tune it and keep the dealer out of their hair, we offer a great product for that.
Thanks
Instructor
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 151
Likes: 39
From: Dallas Tx
Not trying to argue, just be precise. The CVN is, I believe, the checksum of the ECU code itself, which isn't the same as the flash counter, which simply indicates that something was updated. Even flashing the stock tune would update the flash counter. GM keeps track of dealer flashes, and (the argument goes), if the dealer flash count is different than the actual recorded on the chip itself, "you've got some 'splainin' to do."
Not worth the risk to me so I went midlength / off-road X for the meantime. will tuen when I heads / cam.
Where in NoVa are you Meyer??
Supporting Vendor
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,143
Likes: 169
From: Central Florida
To each their own I suppose