EV Corvette
11-26-2020, 04:35 PM
#82
Charge at night while you are sleeping. Electricity must be used as it is generated. That's why we have "peak power plants" that run only during times of high demand, like afternoons after work. Charge after midnight at home and wake up to a "full tank." There's nothing wrong about the power grid. The only issue is when you use it. Most of the objections to EVs are based on nothing but mythology. They don't hold up to scrutiny. I don't expect to ever give up my gasser Corvette, but my next car will be an EV.
11-26-2020, 06:19 PM
#83
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You'll still pay for electricity, but at night the rates will be far lower, well within affordability, because no one is using it at night. In fact it's a great way to even out the load. Figure out the cost and you will see that you will be getting in excess of 100 mpg equivalent. And you won't need charging stations at grocery stores either--another fantasy. There is an EV in your near future. You just don't realize it yet. You may as well wire up a 220 volt outlet in your garage right now, because you're gonna need it.
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msm859 (11-27-2020)
11-26-2020, 06:29 PM
#84
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at first I had included the Corvair but I checked and confirmed it is rear engined. The Fiero would have been their first rear mid-engine car. People like to ignore inconvenient facts like the C4 on being mid-engine.
Last edited by Racer X; 11-26-2020 at 06:44 PM.
11-26-2020, 06:37 PM
#85
Melting Slicks
Don't assume electricity at night is any cheaper, its not where I live. we have NO time of day useage rates because we generate power using hydro dams, so if more is needed they just open up the turbines more so time of day power rates is not used here and wouldn't make sense. We also have NO special electricty 'plans' for EV using electricity customers to reduce costs. In fact if you use over a certain threshold of electricity a day you pay double for everuthing over that threshold of use: tier 1 is 9cents/kwhr, tier 2 is like 15cents/kwhr. If you have an EV it will all be on tier 2 power cost as even a basic smallish house will be into tier 2 useage even without and EV.
Adding 220V power to the garage might be an expensive proposition. my home has only a 100amp service with the panel located on the other side of the house in a finished basement. My service is pretty well maxed out, so adding 1 or 2 50amp EV chargers to the basement will require the utility (at my expense,) to dig up my yard and run larger wiring to the panel, then an electrician to put in a larger 200amp panel, then at least run a large ugly conduit on the outside of the house to a sub panel in the the garage, then We have to cut up the drywall in the garage, run the wires to the 220V boxes, then buy and mount EV chargers to them. then fix the drywall and repaint. I can't see doing all that work for less than 12K maybe a little more, so your adding 12K onto the cost of an EV to allow reasonable charging at home. That 12K in otherwise unecessary electrical upgrades would buy a lot of gas over the years for an ICE car. Oh and I guess my bsmt suit tennant who parks her car out on the street is out of luck is she gets an EV as running cords across the sidewalk is to big of a homeowner liability issue for me to allow. (don't want to be sued by someone who trips).
Adding 220V power to the garage might be an expensive proposition. my home has only a 100amp service with the panel located on the other side of the house in a finished basement. My service is pretty well maxed out, so adding 1 or 2 50amp EV chargers to the basement will require the utility (at my expense,) to dig up my yard and run larger wiring to the panel, then an electrician to put in a larger 200amp panel, then at least run a large ugly conduit on the outside of the house to a sub panel in the the garage, then We have to cut up the drywall in the garage, run the wires to the 220V boxes, then buy and mount EV chargers to them. then fix the drywall and repaint. I can't see doing all that work for less than 12K maybe a little more, so your adding 12K onto the cost of an EV to allow reasonable charging at home. That 12K in otherwise unecessary electrical upgrades would buy a lot of gas over the years for an ICE car. Oh and I guess my bsmt suit tennant who parks her car out on the street is out of luck is she gets an EV as running cords across the sidewalk is to big of a homeowner liability issue for me to allow. (don't want to be sued by someone who trips).
Last edited by DMITTZ; 11-26-2020 at 06:38 PM.
11-26-2020, 06:41 PM
#86
You'll still pay for electricity, but at night the rates will be far lower, well within affordability, because no one is using it at night. In fact it's a great way to even out the load. Figure out the cost and you will see that you will be getting in excess of 100 mpg equivalent. And you won't need charging stations at grocery stores either--another fantasy. There is an EV in your near future. You just don't realize it yet. You may as well wire up a 220 volt outlet in your garage right now, because you're gonna need it.
Maybe there are parts of the country that have peak and non peak residential rates.
11-26-2020, 06:45 PM
#87
Don't assume electricity at night is any cheaper, its not where I live. we have NO time of day useage rates because we generate power using hydro dams, so if more is needed they just open up the turbines more so time of day power rates is not used here and wouldn't make sense. We also have NO special electricty 'plans' for EV using electricity customers to reduce costs. In fact if you use over a certain threshold of electricity a day you pay double for everuthing over that threshold of use: tier 1 is 9cents/kwhr, tier 2 is like 15cents/kwhr. If you have an EV it will all be on tier 2 power cost as even a basic smallish house will be into tier 2 useage even without and EV.
Adding 220V power to the garage might be an expensive proposition. my home has only a 100amp service with the panel located on the other side of the house in a finished basement. My service is pretty well maxed out, so adding 1 or 2 50amp EV chargers to the basement will require the utility (at my expense,) to dig up my yard and run larger wiring to the panel, then an electrician to put in a larger 200amp panel, then at least run a large ugly conduit on the outside of the house to a sub panel in the the garage, then We have to cut up the drywall in the garage, run the wires to the 220V boxes, then buy and mount EV chargers to them. then fix the drywall and repaint. I can't see doing all that work for less than 12K maybe a little more, so your adding 12K onto the cost of an EV to allow reasonable charging at home. That 12K in otherwise unecessary electrical upgrades would buy a lot of gas over the years for an ICE car. Oh and I guess my bsmt suit tennant who parks her car out on the street is out of luck is she gets an EV as running cords across the sidewalk is to big of a homeowner liability issue for me to allow. (don't want to be sued by someone who trips).
Adding 220V power to the garage might be an expensive proposition. my home has only a 100amp service with the panel located on the other side of the house in a finished basement. My service is pretty well maxed out, so adding 1 or 2 50amp EV chargers to the basement will require the utility (at my expense,) to dig up my yard and run larger wiring to the panel, then an electrician to put in a larger 200amp panel, then at least run a large ugly conduit on the outside of the house to a sub panel in the the garage, then We have to cut up the drywall in the garage, run the wires to the 220V boxes, then buy and mount EV chargers to them. then fix the drywall and repaint. I can't see doing all that work for less than 12K maybe a little more, so your adding 12K onto the cost of an EV to allow reasonable charging at home. That 12K in otherwise unecessary electrical upgrades would buy a lot of gas over the years for an ICE car. Oh and I guess my bsmt suit tennant who parks her car out on the street is out of luck is she gets an EV as running cords across the sidewalk is to big of a homeowner liability issue for me to allow. (don't want to be sued by someone who trips).
11-26-2020, 07:05 PM
#88
Safety Car
We have not the grid to support electric car here. That is why the initial cost will always be high. What percent of the population can afford a electric car? You have to build on what you have and not from scratch. With the Democrats coming into power all of our cost will be greater and that includes the auto makers. When you have to buy from China because of the rules the Democrats will over turn.this country will go in reverse. Free tuition will create inflation and so will the change in rules of fracking. Just follow the money our new president even has a lot of stock in the electric car industry in China
11-26-2020, 10:11 PM
#89
And yes, I agree that the goal here for the auto makers is to produce cars like small home appliances are made - all of them will be made in China. Loving an EV means there is a made in china car in your future.
Last edited by nyca; 11-26-2020 at 10:13 PM.
11-27-2020, 04:54 PM
#90
E-Ray, 3LZ, ZER, LIFT
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We have been on Demand Power Billing since we moved to SC in 1985! Yep we have a meter that records Day use, Evening use (which incudes weekends and Holidays) AND the key that makes (or made) it work for the power company the PEAK 15 minutes use in the month.
Recall when my wife came back from a Woman's Club meeting where the power company sold many on the idea. Yep same as we had in our plant but different rates. All designed so the Power company does not have to build capacity to meet peak demand!
Our bill shows what we would pay without and our bill with. Typically we saved ~$500 year! However it's changed. Where we used to pay about 1/2 the Day KWhr rate at Night. Now it's closer to 80%. And the key to force you to manage the Peak is we pay an extremal high rate for the Peak 15 minutes each month. I recall some months our night/weekend rate was equal to our 5 day peak hour rate AND that peak 15 minutes in the month was the same as the others! Yep 1/3, 1/3, 1/3. To mange that 15 minutes at our plant we had a computer monitoring the power consumption and shutting "things" off! In the house we wash dishes always off peak and wash and dry close the same. I used to have a timer on the water tank that ONLY operated off peak.
What changed? Natural Gas Powered Turbine/Generators reduced the cost of adding power for peak demand. In fact toured our Duke power plant complex (that includes a Nuclear plant) with our local ASME Section and found they are using 1/2 their 6 huge Natural Gas Powered "jet engine" generators even for none peak!
The issue in LA this year was brownouts are occurring at night! Yep all the solar cell subsides CA is pushing help in the daytime BUT they would now have to build generating capacity for night use. IF everyone goes to EV and recharged car batteries at night they will have to build more capacity for night use! But since CA and others will not build power plants in their state they would rater "other states Pollute and Play Ostridge!" That is NOT going to happen!
Bottom Line folks have to understand solar cell power when the sun is out does not do crap at night or with several days of rain. These folks just "assume" they can still plug in a wall socket when they want power. "Someone" has to build that generating capacity! Also Gas Turbine/Generators are NOT as energy efficient producers of electricity as steam power plants.
I just chuckle, lets eliminate all fossil fuel!! Unfortunately can't think the issue through in 280 characters and many today won't read or think past that!
Last edited by JerryU; 11-27-2020 at 05:03 PM.
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Michael A (11-28-2020)
11-28-2020, 01:29 PM
#91
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It's inevitable. You will be assimilated. You can cry now or you can cry later, but you need to get over it. In 20 years you won't be able to buy a new gasser or find a gas station to fill it
11-28-2020, 02:14 PM
#92
Melting Slicks
Up here in Canada our provincal owned utility wasted 1 billion dollars doing those smart meters over 10 years ago. Then they realized because they use hydro dams, which can ramp up power production as deamand increases that time of day useage makes no sense! Got to love state owned big government logic. its why our government owned utility is nearly bankrupt and we are facing double digit yearly electricity rate hikes for the foreseeable future and they still need to upgrade our ageing grid!
I highly doubt you won't be able to find gas in 20 years, even as commuter demand decreases, your still going to have millions of customers with vintage cars that will still want gas, you will just see a reduction in the gas station network size, but race gas is readily avaliable where I live so I think even in the future regular gas for vintage cars will be too.
I highly doubt you won't be able to find gas in 20 years, even as commuter demand decreases, your still going to have millions of customers with vintage cars that will still want gas, you will just see a reduction in the gas station network size, but race gas is readily avaliable where I live so I think even in the future regular gas for vintage cars will be too.
Last edited by DMITTZ; 11-28-2020 at 02:15 PM.
11-28-2020, 02:18 PM
#93
Drifting
At my residence I have had a time sensitive electrical rate structure for several years. I have 4.8KW of solar and I charge Our Model S and Chevy Volt after 10PM when our rates are at their lowest.
We have smart meters, which allow for time sensitive billing but also eliminate the need for a monthly visit by a meter reader.
We have smart meters, which allow for time sensitive billing but also eliminate the need for a monthly visit by a meter reader.
Last edited by Guard Dad; 11-28-2020 at 02:20 PM.
11-28-2020, 03:27 PM
#94
E-Ray, 3LZ, ZER, LIFT
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Up here in Canada our provincal owned utility wasted 1 billion dollars doing those smart meters over 10 years ago. Then they realized because they use hydro dams, which can ramp up power production as deamand increases that time of day useage makes no sense! Got to love state owned big government logic. its why our government owned utility is nearly bankrupt and we are facing double digit yearly electricity rate hikes for the foreseeable future and they still need to upgrade our ageing grid!
....
....
What I liked is "How We Were All Going To Be So Happy!" https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov...iency-standard
It states starting in 2017 the US law was going to change requiring continual mpg improvement in cars and light truck to "Save The World." That in 2025 the average would achieve 54.5 mpg. However if you read the 1174 page government report it's based on (I have) Corvette, Ferrari, Porsche etc sports cars ONLY had to achieve ~40 mpg! Predicted this was the reason for the Hybrid C8 and in 2025 all but a few C8's would have to be hybrids. Tadge and company HAD to design for what was a high probability up to November 2016! I wrote a document defining what would happen a year ago and many discounted the idea- updated recently!
Yep, like many in Washington who have been waiting in the wings, now they can dictate what is "Best for US!" BTW, Trudeau may get you there 1st!
Last edited by JerryU; 11-28-2020 at 03:39 PM.
11-28-2020, 05:02 PM
#95
Melting Slicks
Can't stop zealots from not thinking through solutions and when they don't work, finding others. In fact, I'm ROLF as is the EPA person who wrote this press Release!
What I liked is "How We Were All Going To Be So Happy!" https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov...iency-standard
It states starting in 2017 the US law was going to change requiring continual mpg improvement in cars and light truck to "Save The World." That in 2025 the average would achieve 54.5 mpg. However if you read the 1174 page government report it's based on (I have) Corvette, Ferrari, Porsche etc sports cars ONLY had to achieve ~40 mpg! Predicted this was the reason for the Hybrid C8 and in 2025 all but a few C8's would have to be hybrids. Tadge and company HAD to design for what was a high probability up to November 2016! I wrote a document defining what would happen a year ago and many discounted the idea- updated recently!
Yep, like many in Washington who have been waiting in the wings, now they can dictate what is "Best for US!" BTW, Trudeau may get you there 1st!
What I liked is "How We Were All Going To Be So Happy!" https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov...iency-standard
It states starting in 2017 the US law was going to change requiring continual mpg improvement in cars and light truck to "Save The World." That in 2025 the average would achieve 54.5 mpg. However if you read the 1174 page government report it's based on (I have) Corvette, Ferrari, Porsche etc sports cars ONLY had to achieve ~40 mpg! Predicted this was the reason for the Hybrid C8 and in 2025 all but a few C8's would have to be hybrids. Tadge and company HAD to design for what was a high probability up to November 2016! I wrote a document defining what would happen a year ago and many discounted the idea- updated recently!
Yep, like many in Washington who have been waiting in the wings, now they can dictate what is "Best for US!" BTW, Trudeau may get you there 1st!
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JerryU (11-28-2020)